Birmingham Brummies 2022

[wtf]

6 minutes ago, iainb said:

They come from abroad, like they used to before Covid. I don't know why they've not come back Brexit? or maybe the Polish U24 league, maybe a bit of both. Looking at some of the riders riding in the PU24 they were exactly the type of riders that would have plied their trade over here, there's a number of stand out young Aussies that are riding in that league but not over here. They need tempting back some how.

The problem is cost. The way squad systems operate in Poland and Sweden particularly, is based on being paid for the meetings you ride, and a healthy signing on fee as a retainer for your services if you don't ride. The UK essentially doesn't pay signing on fees at all, and it's main attraction to riders is that you should ride every available meeting bar injury or dramatic loss of form. In Poland particularly, 2 bad rides and your replaced for the meeting and as many have found out, won't ride again that year.

Squads just don't work without funding and we all know the UK doesn't have a pot to pish in

[IainB]

6 minutes ago, wtf said:

The problem is cost. The way squad systems operate in Poland and Sweden particularly, is based on being paid for the meetings you ride, and a healthy signing on fee as a retainer for your services if you don't ride. The UK essentially doesn't pay signing on fees at all, and it's main attraction to riders is that you should ride every available meeting bar injury or dramatic loss of form. In Poland particularly, 2 bad rides and your replaced for the meeting and as many have found out, won't ride again that year.

Squads just don't work without funding and we all know the UK doesn't have a pot to pish in

That has been the attraction to riders in the past in getting them to the UK, the sheer number of pay days, it seems that the younger riders with ambition are taking their chances in the PU24 league at the moment and who can blame them as they may well hit the jackpot, a la Jaimon Lidesy. Of course the majority of them won't make it, so hopefully once they've realised that they'll adjust their goals and start coming back over here.

[HGould]

Lets play devils advocate for a minute and consider this.

A 10 Team PL and a 10 Team 2nd Tier (PL a PL/top CL mix and CL a lower CL / NDL mix) - A buddy up system where a core Squad of say 12-14 can be signed 

Belle Vue  / Berwick

KIngs Lynn / Newcastle

Ipswich / Oxford

Peterborough / Redcar

Sheffield / Scunthorpe

Wolverhampton / Birmingham

Poole / Eastbourne

Swindon / Plymouth

Glasgow / Edinburgh

Leicester / Mildenhall

 

You'd have to allow scope for likes of Kent ; Workington to come in and possibly jiggle pairings round a bit to match race days instead of geography.

Would require a fair dollop of good old 70's style rider control.

 

[cinderfella]

3 minutes ago, HGould said:

Lets play devils advocate for a minute and consider this.

A 10 Team PL and a 10 Team 2nd Tier (PL a PL/top CL mix and CL a lower CL / NDL mix) - A buddy up system where a core Squad of say 12-14 can be signed 

Belle Vue  / Berwick

KIngs Lynn / Newcastle

Ipswich / Oxford

Peterborough / Redcar

Sheffield / Scunthorpe

Wolverhampton / Birmingham

Poole / Eastbourne

Swindon / Plymouth

Glasgow / Edinburgh

Leicester / Mildenhall

 

You'd have to allow scope for likes of Kent ; Workington to come in and possibly jiggle pairings round a bit to match race days instead of geography.

Would require a fair dollop of good old 70's style rider control.

 

Glasgow & Edinburgh paired together?

More chance of Rebecca Vardy and Coleen Rooney being start line girls together 

[HGould]

like I said "devils advocate" / "jig the pairings around" 

some people just can't help being negative.

 

[lbw]

9 minutes ago, HGould said:

like I said "devils advocate" / "jig the pairings around" 

some people just can't help being negative.

 

Sometimes it's great being negative, like me covid test!  

[uk_martin]

36 minutes ago, iainb said:

Of course the majority of them won't make it, so hopefully once they've realised that they'll adjust their goals and start coming back over here.

British Speedway. The recycle bin for those who fail to make it elsewhere 

Out of interest, does the BSPZzz impose any conditions on Polish riders who sign for British teams? And what assessed averages would those Polish juniors who fail to make the cut in Poland be given, bearing in mind that the reason they didn't make it was that they are not very good?

[IainB]

11 minutes ago, uk_martin said:

British Speedway. The recycle bin for those who fail to make it elsewhere 

That's OK though, not everybody can be world beaters... those "failures" are the lifeblood of the leagues

[cinderfella]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

like I said "devils advocate" / "jig the pairings around" 

some people just can't help being negative.

 

....and some folk don't recognise a touch of humour

[GiveusaB]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

Lets play devils advocate for a minute and consider this.

A 10 Team PL and a 10 Team 2nd Tier (PL a PL/top CL mix and CL a lower CL / NDL mix) - A buddy up system where a core Squad of say 12-14 can be signed 

Belle Vue  / Berwick

KIngs Lynn / Newcastle

Ipswich / Oxford

Peterborough / Redcar

Sheffield / Scunthorpe

Wolverhampton / Birmingham

Poole / Eastbourne

Swindon / Plymouth

Glasgow / Edinburgh

Leicester / Mildenhall

 

You'd have to allow scope for likes of Kent ; Workington to come in and possibly jiggle pairings round a bit to match race days instead of geography.

Would require a fair dollop of good old 70's style rider control.

 

Interesting suggestion. 

[scoobydoo]

14 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

 

 

 

IF he signed/confirmed around 23/3 for a 28 short term contract, how come he rode against the Scorpions on 4/5(some 6 weeks later)?

The extra 2 weeks were most likely added to his contract from all the banked rides he didnt get to race during the non completion of some Birmingham meetings  !!

[IronScorpion]

13 hours ago, sommelier said:

So it's Birminghams fault regarding travelodge prices!!

 

13 hours ago, uk_martin said:

After the Commonwealth Games, when all the building work is finished and all the temporary workers have gone home, watch the prices at that Travelodge tumble.

It was similar when Scunthorpe visited at the beginning of May but don't know why compared to a few weeks earlier.

[OGT]

6 minutes ago, IronScorpion said:

 

It was similar when Scunthorpe visited at the beginning of May but don't know why compared to a few weeks earlier.

Probably because the work's behind schedule and the clock's ticking down. More workers coming in, price goes up. 

[Fromafar]

7 hours ago, wtf said:

The problem is cost. The way squad systems operate in Poland and Sweden particularly, is based on being paid for the meetings you ride, and a healthy signing on fee as a retainer for your services if you don't ride. The UK essentially doesn't pay signing on fees at all, and it's main attraction to riders is that you should ride every available meeting bar injury or dramatic loss of form. In Poland particularly, 2 bad rides and your replaced for the meeting and as many have found out, won't ride again that year.

Squads just don't work without funding and we all know the UK doesn't have a pot to pish in

That’s the problem,I remember when Berwick wanted Marcin Rempala to do the next season in GB he turned it down because he was getting more to sit in the pits in Poland than race over here.He hardly rode meeting over there that season.He just drifted away from the sport it seems.Pity because he was very talented and still would have been a decent Heat Leader over here.

[enotian]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

That’s the problem,I remember when Berwick wanted Marcin Rempala to do the next season in GB he turned it down because he was getting more to sit in the pits in Poland than race over here.He hardly rode meeting over there that season.He just drifted away from the sport it seems.Pity because he was very talented and still would have been a decent Heat Leader over here.

interesting. I've often wondered what happened to the 'turnover' of Polish riders.  The U21 top division reserves don't always progress beyond that and presumably drop down the leagues but there's bound to be some displacement i.e. a surplus of riders. imagine that!!!

often thought it could be a good business opportunity for someone to act as an agent for Polish riders without team places to come and ride in the UK, on British Licenses of course. But if the Poles are paying riders not to ride then I guess it's not feasible. Academic now as they're unlikely to get work permits anyway, I'd have thought.

[arnieg]

5 minutes ago, enotian said:

interesting. I've often wondered what happened to the 'turnover' of Polish riders.  The U21 top division reserves don't always progress beyond that and presumably drop down the leagues but there's bound to be some displacement i.e. a surplus of riders. imagine that!!!

often thought it could be a good business opportunity for someone to act as an agent for Polish riders without team places to come and ride in the UK, on British Licenses of course. But if the Poles are paying riders not to ride then I guess it's not feasible. Academic now as they're unlikely to get work permits anyway, I'd have thought.

It did happen occasionally, Damien Drozdz at Belle Vue for example. One of the benefits (from the Poles point of view) is that the u24 league gives 22/23 year olds not established in senior teams racing opportunities.

[enotian]

1 minute ago, arnieg said:

It did happen occasionally, Damien Drozdz at Belle Vue for example. One of the benefits (from the Poles point of view) is that the u24 league gives 22/23 year olds not established in senior teams racing opportunities.

Yes, I think Janowski credits riding in the UK as aiding his development. Smektala, Predpelski. the Pawlicki's and even Zmarzlik had brief toe dips as the brightest of prospects at the time.

Not sure the likes of Miskowiak would consider it beneficial now.

But you might think those lesser riders, not good enough for the Polish leagues, might seek to re-build a career elsewhere rather then 'retire'. A bit like Keegan signing for Scunthorpe. The UK wouldn't be an option anymore but they don't appear to try their luck anywhere else.  

[scunny1]

47 minutes ago, enotian said:

Yes, I think Janowski credits riding in the UK as aiding his development. Smektala, Predpelski. the Pawlicki's and even Zmarzlik had brief toe dips as the brightest of prospects at the time.

Not sure the likes of Miskowiak would consider it beneficial now.

But you might think those lesser riders, not good enough for the Polish leagues, might seek to re-build a career elsewhere rather then 'retire'. A bit like Keegan signing for Scunthorpe. The UK wouldn't be an option anymore but they don't appear to try their luck anywhere else.  

Is that Keegan  re signing for the Iron, or replacing the injured Kinsley for the Scorpions?

[enotian]

16 minutes ago, scunny1 said:

Is that Keegan  re signing for the Iron, or replacing the injured Kinsley for the Scorpions?

Honestly, my mate got his picture taken with him recently at some event in Newcastle and I thought it was William Shatner!!! His suit looked like it was from C&A.

So despite the Iron's sad demise and Keegan's apparent need for readies, I don't think he could do a job up front anymore.

[OGT]

Checks thread title. Yep, definitely says Birmingham Brummies 2022.