Birmingham Brummies 2022

[M.D]

17 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

No, it’s ‘ Team ‘ strength control. 

But by Definition that is a form of rider control, a team cant sign every rider thay want..

Im not advocating that riders should be placed by a governing body to teams but with a 'Team strength control' of heat leaders would be a good move for the league in 2023.

Edited January 28, 2022 by M.D

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

To reduce your reply to one sentence , you want to bring back rider control ?

Which didn’t work the last time it was tried.

Depends on the measure of success..

Keeping tracks going by keeping them worth visiting is now the No1 priority for the sport I would suggest..

When Rider Control has been used in the past riders had a huge say in where they ended up, meaning it became the usual "halfway house/not quite fit for purpose" plan that sadly UK Speedway seem to implement....

I would be surprised nowadays if any rider had the same clout, given hardly any of them are "superstars" (even more so at Div 2 level)...

However, for me, just making two heat leaders allowed over "x' average, within an overall team figure, would suffice to share them around enough to at least give all teams a fighting chance of competing...

And this mechanic has been used in Div 1 before now hasnt it so hardly a controversial system to use..

The top league only has six teams in it, how long before the second tier have a number similar due to the "have nots" either going to the wall or dropping into tier 3..?

Given that is the natural occurrence if changes are not made then riders will naturally end up with less team places too, so surely for them it would be better to have a job in Div 2 than not...?

[topaz325]

Justin Sedgmen in an interview in this weeks star, "But basically I dont think riders are doing themselves any favours riding for riding for such Sh*t money"

"I know clubs can only can only afford what they can pay and i dont want to see any clubs going broke"

"But unfortunately the sport is getting more expensive and we are doing less meetings"

"I was on the same money in 2009 for fuel money as what I was in 2020 for Sheffield and Glasgow"

Edited January 28, 2022 by topaz325

[mikebv]

7 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

Justin Sedgmen in an interview in this weeks star, "But basically I dont think riders are doing themselves any favours riding for riding for such Sh*t money"

"I know clubs can only can only afford what they can pay and i dont want to see any clubs going broke"

"But unfortunately the sport is getting more expensive and we are doing less meetings"

"I was on the same money in 2009 for fuel money as what I was in 2020 for Sheffield and Glasgow"

I would suggest if Justin was good enough to be a heat leader in Div 1 and Div 2, like so many other riders are, he may put up with the "sh*t money" given he would be getting two wages.... 

I am off to email my boss now asking her if she will let me work for just six months this year but pay me enough to live on for the full twelve.. 

Will keep everyone updated as to her answer... 

 

[Fromafar]

32 minutes ago, mikebv said:

I would suggest if Justin was good enough to be a heat leader in Div 1 and Div 2, like so many other riders are, he may put up with the "sh*t money" given he would be getting two wages.... 

I am off to email my boss now asking her if she will let me work for just six months this year but pay me enough to live on for the full twelve.. 

Will keep everyone updated as to her answer... 

 

She might just send you for a 6 month holiday in Australia.

[The Dog]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Then why suggest something that you know isn’t feasible?

If Redcars attendances have increased year on year since 2017 then they must be attracting new fans mustn’t they ? I dare say the same goes for Glasgow and Berwick.

 

Because we don't know its not feasible until someone tries it and proves its not. Like I said, it's just an idea. Someone might look at it and be able to adapt it and make it worthwhile 

[noaksey]

4 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

To reduce your reply to one sentence , you want to bring back rider control ?

Which didn’t work the last time it was tried.

No rider control in whatever form will be replaced by track control. The number will just keep reducing. Let's face it Birmingham and Newcastle will do well to survive for any serious length of time (bar a miracle) with poor teams 

[noaksey]

10 hours ago, Jimsboy said:

Same but the new man said on speedway tavern in November it was going be more than 15 heats speedway. Going get kids in etc. Plus every new sponsor Brum get that 1000 mentioned would be reduced.

 

How many sponsors have they announced so far?

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

Because we don't know its not feasible until someone tries it and proves its not. Like I said, it's just an idea. Someone might look at it and be able to adapt it and make it worthwhile 

Believe me it isn’t feasible and yes, it’s been tried. A PL match was once put in jeopardy because the track concerned had the air fence damaged by an accident and the paramedics were then taken away to deal with the injured , never mind the last minute track maintenance .

Have you ever watched a complete novice child try to ride four laps? Besides the painstaking time it can take, usually with an adult running along side to keep them ‘ steady ‘ how many kids are you going to get on track in an hour ? How many different size kits are you going to require? How many qualified ‘ trainers ‘ ? and so on and so on….

As someone who helps run a training school with hire bikes I do know a bit about what’s involved.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Fortythirtyeight

[The Dog]

Fine 

[ruffdiamond]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Fine 

Am sure there's a will to run such a thing, Tsunami used to run a training school at Newcastle. It wasn't done without effort and organisation and, he probably burdened the cost of it all. So maybe you need somebody willing do the same?

[Fortythirtyeight]

22 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Am sure there's a will to run such a thing, Tsunami used to run a training school at Newcastle. It wasn't done without effort and organisation and, he probably burdened the cost of it all. So maybe you need somebody willing do the same?

If you bother to read the posts on the subject you will realise the suggest was to run it during the hour before the main match, Dave ran his at lunchtime, bit of a difference !

[ruffdiamond]

7 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

If you bother to read the posts on the subject you will realise the suggest was to run it during the hour before the main match, Dave ran his at lunchtime, bit of a difference !

Ooh ok,,, don't get ya knickers in a twist!!!,,, sorry for not taking in all the story beforehand. 

[Speedway fan]

23 hours ago, The Dog said:

One of the major issues is investment in the sport at 'lower than grand prix' level. Instead of paying riders daft money, clubs should be buying one or two smaller bikes and give the kids a taster an hour before the meeting starts. Parents aren't willing to spend on all the gear for the kid to hate it after one lap,unless they already have a speedway background. 

Advertise it as a free trial for kids and the parents get in free just the once. Even if they don't want to be a rider they may just become a supporter. Needs to be a huge carrot to get people through the gates, this might not be it but it's a different idea.. 

Apologies for hijacking the Brum thread. 

quite a few tracks would not be able to do anything an hour before within their planning permission which only allows even the warm up of engines from a set time . Plus the track man is usually finishing off his watering etc . Nice idea but not practical 

[Ghosty]

On 1/28/2022 at 2:55 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

What ? Where do you watch the sport ? All northern tracks run second halfs and have done for many years , not just the NJL matches either .

What I'm suggesting is to go back to 13 heats & then with all 14 riders + 4 local talents in the second half with sponsored final.

The objective being discover & encourage MUCH NEEDED new riders but also freshen things up. Keep this going until we have enough riders to fill our team places without the hated double-up/ double-down shenanigans.  

[Sings4Speedway]

10 hours ago, Ghosty said:

What I'm suggesting is to go back to 13 heats & then with all 14 riders + 4 local talents in the second half with sponsored final.

The objective being discover & encourage MUCH NEEDED new riders but also freshen things up. Keep this going until we have enough riders to fill our team places without the hated double-up/ double-down shenanigans.  

Nice idea but not overly practical and the void in talent between rider levels in the same league is already alarming. The CL features a lot of the PL heatleaders down to NDL graduates and then chucked out on track together and questioned why the racing is follow the leader. 

Personally the level of the NDL needs to be maintained/raised to keep it strong/competitive,  minimum averages need to be achieved in each league before stepping up, the proposed avaerage calculator needs bringing back in so PL/CL conversion rate is at 2.0 and if a double upper highest average is used. 

The decision really needs to be made to acertain if the CL is the league that everyone wants to focus on given the number of teams and that most decisions appear to be being made for the benefit of the CL. An actual focus on what is important for the sport in the UK rather than individual clubs is what is needed.

[*JJ]

And the Midland [Northern/Southern] Development Leagues need to be reinstated. This was an invaluable stepping stone between training schools and the National League; now it has (mostly) gone, people wonder why there is a shortage of riders!

[mikebv]

23 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Nice idea but not overly practical and the void in talent between rider levels in the same league is already alarming. The CL features a lot of the PL heatleaders down to NDL graduates and then chucked out on track together and questioned why the racing is follow the leader. 

Personally the level of the NDL needs to be maintained/raised to keep it strong/competitive,  minimum averages need to be achieved in each league before stepping up, the proposed avaerage calculator needs bringing back in so PL/CL conversion rate is at 2.0 and if a double upper highest average is used. 

The decision really needs to be made to acertain if the CL is the league that everyone wants to focus on given the number of teams and that most decisions appear to be being made for the benefit of the CL. An actual focus on what is important for the sport in the UK rather than individual clubs is what is needed.

Whilst the 2nd Div tail can wag the Div 1 dog it wont ever work too well..

Div 2 truly do have it all ways..

Using many of the best riders available from both Div 1 and Div 3...

A few on here seem to take some satisfaction by talking up there clubs as if they have miraculously increased their followers through great promotional work..

And for some that may be a factor..

However, I would suggest the bigger factor is having six Div 1 heat leaders competing regularly at those tracks each season.

Which has attracted more "lapsed" fans who have drifted away in the preceding years back to the sport..

The same would happen if an influx of GP riders came back in Div 1...

The question though is obviously "how long will it last?"...

The novelty of watching "better riders" only lasts so long before it becomes "normal" and then those "non regulars" who have been attracted back start to drift away again...

And, as we see, having so many Div 1 heat leaders in a select few tracks in Div 2, wont help the whole sport organically and generically grow...

[soupy]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:04 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

If you bother to read the posts on the subject you will realise the suggest was to run it during the hour before the main match, Dave ran his at lunchtime, bit of a difference !

Archie used to go round before the main match solo with Tsunami overlooking events at Newcastle for a few seasons.

[Fortythirtyeight]

11 hours ago, Ghosty said:

What I'm suggesting is to go back to 13 heats & then with all 14 riders + 4 local talents in the second half with sponsored final.

The objective being discover & encourage MUCH NEEDED new riders but also freshen things up. Keep this going until we have enough riders to fill our team places without the hated double-up/ double-down shenanigans.  

So you want to go back to the ‘ old days ‘ ?

Ask yourself why that was done away with in the first place . To provide more ‘ entertainment ‘ of the top level and do away with the mostly corrupt second half finals that were rigged by the riders themselves, as demanded by the dwindling fans who mostly walked out after heat 13.