Birmingham Brummies 2022

[lbw]

I'm watching the Commonwealth Games and doesn't the Alexander Stadium look very impressive especially with it being full approx 30,000. Now am i getting fanciful ideas but to me that stadium would be perfect as an option for a proposed second British Grand Prix and they could hold the SGP2 just round the corner at Birmingham speedway.

Even after taking out the temporary stands out on the corners the capacity is stil 18,000 which may be more suitable for a speedway size crowd.

Won't hold me breath tho.

 

 

[HGould]

21 minutes ago, Turnip said:

I'm watching the Commonwealth Games and doesn't the Alexander Stadium look very impressive especially with it being full approx 30,000. Now am i getting fanciful ideas but to me that stadium would be perfect as an option for a proposed second British Grand Prix and they could hold the SGP2 just round the corner at Birmingham speedway.

Even after taking out the temporary stands out on the corners the capacity is stil 18,000 which may be more suitable for a speedway size crowd.

Won't hold me breath tho.

 

 

No chance I'm afraid.

Its actually the Home base of British Athletics and has been for some years and also the world famous Birchfield Harriers.

It's a shame they are removing the portable seating in one respect but welcome in another as it will become a ready made excellent Stadium for Athletics and other Events.

Don't see where the demand is for a second GB in UK to be honest when they can only half fill Cardiff one a year.

 

[lbw]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

No chance I'm afraid.

Its actually the Home base of British Athletics and has been for some years and also the world famous Birchfield Harriers.

It's a shame they are removing the portable seating in one respect but welcome in another as it will become a ready made excellent Stadium for Athletics and other Events.

Don't see where the demand is for a second GB in UK to be honest when they can only half fill Cardiff one a year.

 

You say no chance but then you say other events apart from athletics?

Also the stadia, where temporary tracks are laid for GP's, are owned by other organisations outside of speedway so on the face of it I don't any difference with the Alexander Stadium.

So while u may be correct in saying no chance ur points don't appear to back that up 

I think the British GP would be better attended in a more central location like Birmingham & Bradford than being out in Cardiff. Whilst it's a fantastic stadium with a roof the GP would be better served in a smaller & better located stadium so it fills to capacity.

I went to Bradford '85 & that easily beats Cardiff.

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Turnip

[MD]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

No chance I'm afraid.

Its actually the Home base of British Athletics and has been for some years and also the world famous Birchfield Harriers.

It's a shame they are removing the portable seating in one respect but welcome in another as it will become a ready made excellent Stadium for Athletics and other Events.

Don't see where the demand is for a second GB in UK to be honest when they can only half fill Cardiff one a year.

 

They can only try. The racing at Cardiff has been poor for a number of years and the attendance possibly reflects that now. I know Cardiff is all about the atmosphere, pre-race events and the overall weekend however its the racing that interests me, and it needs to be good to justify the cost of going there, which it doesn't IMO. From 10 GP's this year, 4 are in Poland, why can't we have a second one in the UK i.e. Manchester. The SON there last year was superb, its a racers track and I would pay to go possibly along with many other northern based fans.

As it is the GP series needs refreshed. Discovery are serious broadcasters and if they want to grow their tv audience they need to have a think about the tracks which can deliver this. Vojens, Malilla and Prague are absolute bore fests and I'm sure their viewer stats will confirm this. Taking GP's away from these tracks may mean you lose the audience in that country so its a difficult call to make however year after year they deliver FTG riding rather than racing. There has to be better out there, hopefully.

[S4r4h]

5 hours ago, Turnip said:

I'm watching the Commonwealth Games and doesn't the Alexander Stadium look very impressive especially with it being full approx 30,000. Now am i getting fanciful ideas but to me that stadium would be perfect as an option for a proposed second British Grand Prix and they could hold the SGP2 just round the corner at Birmingham speedway.

Even after taking out the temporary stands out on the corners the capacity is stil 18,000 which may be more suitable for a speedway size crowd.

Won't hold me breath tho.

 

 

Do you know much about Birmingham Council? It took Tony Mole 21 years to persuade them to allow domestic speedway in a stadium lots may call its 'ancestral home'. The Alexander stadium rebuild has cost the earth and the locals have lost a great park too. So I  very much doubt they'd allow those dirty smelly noisy bikes anywhere near it....unfortunately. Unless someone can persuade them that lots of of troublef free ££££'s are likely to flow into the hotel and transport systems......hmmm could be something in it, but they'd have to be talking big bucks for the council I'd suspect.

Edited August 7, 2022 by S4r4h

[HGould]

21 minutes ago, S4r4h said:

Do you know much about Birmingham Council? It took Tony Mole 21 years to persuade them to allow domestic speedway in a stadium lots may call its 'ancestral home'. The Alexander stadium rebuild has cost the earth and the locals have lost a great park too. So I  very much doubt they'd allow those dirty smelly noisy bikes anywhere near it....unfortunately. Unless someone can persuade them that lots of of troublef free ££££'s are likely to flow into the hotel and transport systems......hmmm could be something in it, but they'd have to be talking big bucks for the council I'd suspect.

Covering their pride and joy state of the art tartan track would cost a lot more than stripping some turf up. 

Plus it would be an open air temporary track. 

Way too risky. 

Surely BV NSS with 15 to 20bk temp capacity sold out is better. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

9 hours ago, uk_martin said:

I heard the perspective of this from Joe Thurley's widdow. The name was abused as a cheap publicity stunt. The trophy was supposed to have been on display in a glass cabinet at the stadium, and as was said, there was supposed to be an annual event to compete for the trophy too...it never happened.

Hence my enquiry about whether the "Alan Grahame" event is anything else other than yet another name from Birmingham's relatable history being taken in vain.

I actually find it quite disrespectful how pretty much all ex riders are treated by British speedway, unless a rider stays in the sport in another capacity they are quickly cast aside and that goes for former world or even national champions 

[brianbuck]

Many present day speedway people seem to have distorted ideas about the history of Birmingham Speedway. The "blame" for the 21 year delay in bringing speedway back to the City cannot be attributed to the City Council, but rather to the intransigence of the then owners of not just the Brummoies current home venue, but that of the owners or controllers of the various alternative venues within the City which were explored. The then owner of Perry Barr Stadium, Maurice Buckland, made no bones about his attitude - he wou;d not have speedway back at his stadium at any price - and until he sold out to the GRA in 2004, he never wavered from this stance.

Hall Green Stadium, also owned by the GRA until its demolition, were more accomodating, but casual enquiries convinced them that it would be impossible to secure planning permission due to the venue's close proximity to housing. Bordesley Green, not then owned by the Council although it was eventually taken over by the authority, also produced numerous excuses for rejecting approaches to restore speedway there, both on the original track and on a proposed new track on a different part of the site. In fact, the only involvement with the Council was an enquiry about the possibility of the speedway club using Salford Stadium, the City Council having had other offers which they felt were mpre appropriate.

True, there was an initial difficulty in securing a planning consent for Perry Barr and it was at first refused on the casting vote of the Chairman of the Planning Committee, but a second application was emphatically approved. 

As far as the Alexander Stadium being a potential Grand Prix venue is concerned, the stadium is primarily an athletics site and is the headquarters of Birchfield Harriers, but is wholly owned by Birmingham City Council and it has been widely reported that the Council are anxious to justify the vast amount of money which they have spent on developing it, by finding more commercial uses for it. I don't believe that Birmingham City Council is in any way "anti-speedway" and it is my opinion that were a serious offer made to use it for a Grand Prix, the Council would certainly consider it. 

As the organisation of the Grand Prix meetings is outside the remit of the Speedway Control Bureau and the BSPL, any approach would have to come from those who now promote this competition, but the stadium is there, it has the capacity, and if they want it, they could go for it.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by brianbuck

[lbw]

Thank you for your response Brian, great to hear from someone who is more knowledgeable on these matters than from those who are so dismissive & yet know little about the facts.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Turnip

[lbw]

6 hours ago, MD said:

They can only try. The racing at Cardiff has been poor for a number of years and the attendance possibly reflects that now. I know Cardiff is all about the atmosphere, pre-race events and the overall weekend however its the racing that interests me, and it needs to be good to justify the cost of going there, which it doesn't IMO. From 10 GP's this year, 4 are in Poland, why can't we have a second one in the UK i.e. Manchester. The SON there last year was superb, its a racers track and I would pay to go possibly along with many other northern based fans.

As it is the GP series needs refreshed. Discovery are serious broadcasters and if they want to grow their tv audience they need to have a think about the tracks which can deliver this. Vojens, Malilla and Prague are absolute bore fests and I'm sure their viewer stats will confirm this. Taking GP's away from these tracks may mean you lose the audience in that country so its a difficult call to make however year after year they deliver FTG riding rather than racing. There has to be better out there, hopefully.

Very well said.

I've been to Cardiff about 14 times but the celebration of 20 years should also be it's last year.

For me it's time to move on to stadia that will fill such as Bradford, Belle Vue and/or somewhere completely new like the Alexander Stadium or a stadium in London. West Ham still as the shape of the athletic's track around the pitch. Spurs Stadium as also been m

I know, it's never as simple as saying there's a stadium, put a track in & off u go. I ain't naive enough to think that.

Cardiff as been great but just because it as a roof it doesn't outweigh the cons imo.

[S4r4h]

27 minutes ago, brianbuck said:

Many present day speedway people seem to have distorted ideas about the history of Birmingham Speedway. The "blame" for the 21 year delay in bringing speedway back to the City cannot be attributed to the City Council, but rather to the intransigence of the then owners of not just the Brummoies current home venue, but that of the owners or controllers of the various alternative venues within the City which were explored. The then owner of Perry Barr Stadium, Maurice Buckland, made no bones about his attitude - he wou;d not have speedway back at his stadium at any price - and until he sold out to the GRA in 2004, he never wavered from this stance.

Hall Green Stadium, also owned by the GRA until its demolition, were more accomodating, but casual enquiries convinced them that it would be impossible to secure planning permission due to the venue's close proximity to housing. Bordesley Green, not then owned by the Council although it was eventually taken over by the authority, also produced numerous excuses for rejecting approaches to restore speedway there, both on the original track and on a proposed new track on a different part of the site. In fact, the only involvement with the Council was an enquiry about the possibility of the speedway club using Salford Stadium, the City Council having had other offers which they felt were mpre appropriate.

True, there was an initial difficulty in securing a planning consent for Perry Barr and it was at first refused on the casting vote of the Chairman of the Planning Committee, but a second application was emphatically approved. 

As far as the Alexander Stadium being a potential Grand Prix venue is concerned, the stadium is primarily an athletics site and is the headquarters of Birchfield Harriers, but is wholly owned by Birmingham City Council and it has been widely reported that the Council are anxious to justify the vast amount of money which they have spent on developing it, by finding more commercial uses for it. I don't believe that Birmingham City Council is in any way "anti-speedway" and it is my opinion that were a serious offer made to use it for a Grand Prix, the Council would certainly consider it. 

As the organisation of the Grand Prix meetings is outside the remit of the Speedway Control Bureau and the BSPL, any approach would have to come from those who now promote this competition, but the stadium is there, it has the capacity, and if they want it, they could go for it.

 

 

Thank you Brian, I stand corrected. I was but a young girl when speedway was taken from perry barr in the mid 80's and was obviously not as involved as you and others to eventually bring it back almost at the start of my 4th decade of life. Something for which I am grateful and thank you for. Be good if they (the council and birchfield harriers) could be persuaded to have GP speedway (or any speedway)in 'the park', but I reckon it'll take until at least my 7th/8th decade of life to persuade them! Fingers and toes crossed in the meantime. 

[martinmauger]

The return of speedway to Birmingham was a tremendous achievement, with Brian Buck himself involved in no small way.  Thing is, some, not all, local authorities & stadia owners just don't want speedway no way, no how, and refuse to even entertain the idea despite the sport bringing more people and therefore more spending into an area. Sad fact....

[OGT]

Aston Villa Ladies are playing at the Alexander Stadium this season, so there's a few bob more for the BCC kitty. 

[brianbuck]

Interesting connection to OGT's post about Aston Villa Ladies plan to stage football matches at the Alexander Stadium.

Aston Villa's reserve team used to play their home matches at the stadium which is now the home of the Brummies, in the late 1930's - which of course is the original Alexander Stadium - given to the City in perpetuity by Lord Alexander in 1877, conditional on it always being a sports venue, (although I rather doubt that the good Lord was thinking of Speedway and Greyhound Racing when he made this stipulation!)

In the centre part of the rear of the main grandstand (which is the sole section of the ground which is listed) can still be seen the Leaping Deer emblem of Birchfield Harriers above the Harriers motto: "Fleet and Free."

Edited August 8, 2022 by brianbuck

[HGould]

2 hours ago, OGT said:

Aston Villa Ladies are playing at the Alexander Stadium this season, so there's a few bob more for the BCC kitty. 

The City Council deserve great credit as do the local Organising Committee for the way Commonwealth Games logistics have gone.

Wonderful weather helps but with the return to Labour Control some years ago after a Tory take over; things have certainly improved. Some of the Cities MP's are very Sport friendly, especially Shabhna Mahmood and the clever use of inner city locations (not just NIA / NEC) has been a great success.

We could and perhaps should have had a Community Stadium either at NEC or in Curzon Street Area had we been awarded Games a decade or so ago sadly the make up of the Council at the time wasn't as interested.

The Commonwealth and very influential Asian Nations are now 100% sure of what Birmingham can achieve and how vibrant it can be.

All that is needed now is the removal of the pointless Mayoral position that isn't needed and whose incumbent is a glory boy always seeking to piggy back on success and always blaming others for failure.

Where that may leave Speedway is a moot point, I'm convinced that Speedway and an Athletics track for one weekend is a far harder sell to the Stadium hierarchy than a football stadium where just a bit of turf has to be lifted.

I wonder whar dimension they could fit in the NEC Indoor Arena - now that would be exciting, possibly not SGP but for a weekend - they've had Indoor Super X and Trucks in there many times and in the bigger NEC Exhibition Halls where Speedway was staged in 1978 or 1979 on a rubber track with slick tyres...from memory a world class field won by Michael Lee..   

[Gerbat1875]

Villa Ladies are NOT playing games at the Alexander Stadium this season, the games are split between Walsall Bescot Stadium and Villa Park, don't know where this Villa ladies stadium thing as come from, not once as any one from Villa or the Alexander stadium said it would happen 

[HGould]

1 hour ago, Gerbat1875 said:

Villa Ladies are NOT playing games at the Alexander Stadium this season, the games are split between Walsall Bescot Stadium and Villa Park, don't know where this Villa ladies stadium thing as come from, not once as any one from Villa or the Alexander stadium said it would happen 

Spot on. 

I think the myth started as banter at the rumour that St Andrews as being demolished and land sold so Blues would move in to Alexander and David Sullivan was coming back to BCFC and would do what he did at WHU re Stadia.

 The Villa ladies sort of came out of that as a reply as Perry Barr is a Villa area

 

All Myths. 

[heathen52]

Slightly off Speedway but relevant to the discussion "The Midland Hurricanes" were in discussions https://midlandshurricanes.com/news/hurricanes-new-regional-homenbsp about using the alexander stadium long term, how these discussions went I have no idea but it does seem to have gone quiet about what the outcome was/is.

[heathen52]

2 hours ago, HGould said:

Spot on. 

I think the myth started as banter at the rumour that St Andrews as being demolished and land sold so Blues would move in to Alexander and David Sullivan was coming back to BCFC and would do what he did at WHU re Stadia.

 The Villa ladies sort of came out of that as a reply as Perry Barr is a Villa area

 

All Myths. 

Perry Barr may well be a AV area but being in the area didnt help Orient when they wanted the Stadium that Wet Spam now use, I could well see the Athletics Stadium being used by BCFC as their present home seems to be having some issues with H&S and as most of us know its no longer owned by the Football Club.

[Gerbat1875]

I am pretty sure that the rumour started when someone posted on a forum saying "a question may have been asked by someone from BCFC about the stadium being used for a few games whilst St Andrews was being repaired", but long term the project was a resounding no, BCFC decided that half a stadium was better than none so that was the rumour circulating, from what i gather once the games are finished the temporary stands will be removed and revert back to an 18,000 capacity stadium, it will host all major athletic events and will be in use for the schools in and around the community, I have spoken to a few people (including a local official today) who are associated with Birmingham City Council and as far as they are aware, it will not be used for football or any other sport, its main use will be as i say athletics. Its been a great Commonwealth games and the organisers should be well proud of the job done, the stadium i thought would not be very good when i saw the plans to rebuild, but they done a fantastic job and the stadium was brilliant