Birmingham Assets and Payments

[Humphrey Appleby]

12 minutes ago, Great Central said:

Great idea there. It is also not in a riders interests to make a big issue out of non payment of "wages" since they may be overlooked for a team place in the following season.

Why would anyone want to continue to work for an employer that failed to pay them? 

[jenga]

12 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Why would anyone want to continue to work for an employer that failed to pay them? 

for the love of the job  

[Sings4Speedway]

9 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Why would anyone want to continue to work for an employer that failed to pay them? 

Sadly the promotions still hold the vast majority of the power, there is also a vindictive element amongst them. Ive heard and known of threats issued to riders about the chances of them getting future team places unless they fall in line plus which rider wants to publicly come out as the initial "trouble maker"? For that they need to often state their owed monies which is intrusive in itself and they know it will cause a reputation dent. No matter how talented an individual how many employers would be keen on a new employee who has caused strikes at their last 3 places of work (justified or otherwise).

[1 valve]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Why would anyone want to continue to work for an employer that failed to pay them? 

In the case of a speedway rider., he could be  riding for a Premiership club who has not paid him and thus quite understandably not want to ride for that club. However, if he refuses to ride for the none paying club, he would be banned from riding in any other UK meetings irrespective of the competition i.e Championship or individual event. 
So to answer your question,  he would "want to ride for a an employer who failed to pay him" so that he can continue to ride elsewhere. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by 1 valve

[noaksey]

Any word from the Birmingham promotion on this yet?

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, jenga said:

for the love of the job  

Well they all do ride mostly for our entertainment.....

I know this because I have read it so many times on here...  

[TINYS]

9 hours ago, jenga said:

for the love of the job  

That don't pay the bills unfortunately.

[Ray Stadia]

If I was far younger and yes, I would have loved to have been a speedway rider, I would have preferred to have had a job/career, and speedway was my hobby. I would have accepted that the only way my costs were met or exceeded, would be based on results. There is no way speedway will survive as it is presently, with people (promoters) running a team hoping the gate (the income) will pay the outgoings. Speedway will survive, but not in it's current form.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ray Stadia

[martinmauger]

3 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

If I was far younger and yes, I would have loved to have been a speedway rider, I would have preferred to have had a job/career, and speedway was my hobby. I would have accepted that the only way my costs were met or exceeded, would be based on results. There is no way speedway will survive as it is presently, with people (promoters) running a team hoping the gate (the income) will pay the outgoings. Speedway will survive, but not in it's current form.  

Do it RS, treat yourself, you won't regret it !  I have ridden with Wayne Carter, on Scunny's mini track and on a 500 on the main circuit (gulp !) and found him friendly, helpful, very knowledgable as you would expect and has a good sense of humour without being at all condescending or insulting, which helps if (when) progress doesn't go as planned or the ground keeps coming up to meet you (!).  He has plenty of time for everyone and equally importantly he asks what riders are hoping to achieve; from just having fun, riding round the track without the ground hitting you (!), getting a full slide on (yay!) to taking on the likes of Laguta, Tai, Smazlik, etc.  He then helps each rider make steady & safe progress at their own pace.  Speaking as I find, I can highly reccomend a day 'skidding with Wayne' and promised to myself one day hope to do so again.  One day....

 

[*JJ]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, noaksey said:

Any word from the Birmingham promotion on this yet?

They are buying the assets, such as they are: see the Birmingham website.

[1 valve]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, noaksey said:

Any word from the Birmingham promotion on this yet?

News on website reads that a new company has been formed who has acquired the assets of the previous promoting company. This more than likely means the old company will be wound up and unless there are adequate funds left over, unsecured creditors (which riders are) will not receive the money owed to them. 
That said, the BSPA could arrange for the riders to be paid out of the security fund lodged with them by the previous promotion - assuming there is anything left over. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by 1 valve

[stevehone]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:50 AM, 1 valve said:

That said, the BSPA could arrange for the riders to be paid out of the security fund lodged with them by the previous promotion - assuming there is anything left over. 

i hope promotions have learnt a lesson not to pay guarantees but pay for points earnt. this is one of the problems i see in the sport when it comes to finances

[1 valve]

26 minutes ago, stevehone said:

i hope promotions have learnt a lesson not to pay guarantees but pay for points earnt. this is one of the problems i see in the sport when it comes to finances

Maybe, but whether solely pay per point or involve guarantees it seems that when outgoings become higher than income then the riders are the ones who are not paid what’s owing to them by folk not running their business properly. 

[teaboy279]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:50 AM, 1 valve said:

News on website reads that a new company has been formed who has acquired the assets of the previous promoting company. This more than likely means the old company will be wound up and unless there are adequate funds left over, unsecured creditors (which riders are) will not receive the money owed to them. 
That said, the BSPA could arrange for the riders to be paid out of the security fund lodged with them by the previous promotion - assuming there is anything left over. 

This is where i dont understand business laws at all. If you are acquiring all of the company assets, surely you should be taking on all the company liabilities as well.

[M.D]

5 hours ago, teaboy279 said:

This is where i dont understand business laws at all. If you are acquiring all of the company assets, surely you should be taking on all the company liabilities as well.

You would only take on the previous companies liabilities if you was buying the company itself with the intention of continuing that company.

In this case, a new company has bought a companies assets and will trade as a brand new company.

[*JJ]

The Masons have now said that all riders have been paid.

[AndyPresley]

10 hours ago, teaboy279 said:

This is where i dont understand business laws at all. If you are acquiring all of the company assets, surely you should be taking on all the company liabilities as well.

Business are usually bought in one of 2 ways:

1. An asset sale - the buyer only purchases the assets of the company (e.g. air fence, tractors, rider assets). They would then operate as a completely new company. This is a much less tax efficient way of selling a business.

2. A share sale - the buyer is purchasing the shares of the company, meaning that they take everything, including all assets and liabilities. They continue to run as the same company, so much more risk is taken on meaning that a thorough due diligence process should be undertaken. Without this, there is a much higher risk to the buyer, but it is much more tax efficient to the seller as they are often entitled to an entrepreneurs relief (meaning they only pay 10% tax on the sale, which can result in huge savings).

Given Birmingham's struggles this year, I would be very surprised if a savvy business person were to buy the club using the route of an share sale. So, assuming the consortium bought the assets and not the shares in the company, the debt is not theirs and remains with the previous promotion (and so it should, as it is their debt!).

[Ray Stadia]

1 hour ago, AndyPresley said:

Business are usually bought in one of 2 ways:

1. An asset sale - the buyer only purchases the assets of the company (e.g. air fence, tractors, rider assets). They would then operate as a completely new company. This is a much less tax efficient way of selling a business.

2. A share sale - the buyer is purchasing the shares of the company, meaning that they take everything, including all assets and liabilities. They continue to run as the same company, so much more risk is taken on meaning that a thorough due diligence process should be undertaken. Without this, there is a much higher risk to the buyer, but it is much more tax efficient to the seller as they are often entitled to an entrepreneurs relief (meaning they only pay 10% tax on the sale, which can result in huge savings).

Given Birmingham's struggles this year, I would be very surprised if a savvy business person were to buy the club using the route of an share sale. So, assuming the consortium bought the assets and not the shares in the company, the debt is not theirs and remains with the previous promotion (and so it should, as it is their debt!).

But if the promotion is a limited company and goes into liquidation, the directors can probably walk away. 

[1 valve]

2 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

But if the promotion is a limited company and goes into liquidation, the directors can probably walk away. 

Yes they can walk away. However, in the case of the previous Birmingham promotion, by selling the assets of the company to the new promotion, the old company generated some funds which together with the "bond" was most probably sufficient to pay off creditors which would have included the riders. Only after the creditors have been settled would the shareholders have been able to receive anything albeit, any money they had lent the company would also have been included in the creditor settlement on an equal basis. 
 

Edited December 10, 2021 by 1 valve