Guests & R/R

[Lenny Lion]

This has caused a-lot of discussion in the past & no doubt will do again in the future.  
 

I decided to do a little research into the use of guests & R/R at my local track Leicester in 2021. 

R/R was used 13 times in 2021 & over the season there was 19 guests used .

To my shock nobody guested at Leicester twice so Leicester fans can not say they watched the same riders all the time because they guest for everyone. 
 

Steve Worrall & Danny King were the most common visitors with both having 4 visits to BP in 2021 once each guesting & 3 times with Poole ( league, cup & play off’s)

Charles Wright , Jack Thomas & Jason Edwards all guested once at Leicester but did not represent their respective clubs when they visited Leicester.

I have no issue over the use of guest or R/R if its going to be like 2021 where I only see a rider guest once over a season . 

I would be interested to see similar research from other clubs in the Championship then compare it to Premiership clubs stats .

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lenny Lion

[Lenny Lion]

Also for those that are interested the riders that guested at Leicester & how many times in total they rode over at BP in bracket’s & their own teams they appeared for + the 1 guest appearance :

E.G Richard Lawson rode for Eastbourne & Plymouth in their declared 1-7 + 1 guest appearance = 3 

(C) = Championship (KOC) = Knockout Cup & P/O = Play Off’s

Richard Lawson (3) (Eastbourne C & Plymouth C)

Tom Brennan (3) (Eastbourne & Glasgow)

Tero Aarnio (3) ( Scunthorpe C & KOC)

Danny King (4) (Poole C, KOC & P/O)

Alfie Bowtell (2) (Plymouth C )

James Wright (2) (Newcastle C)

Jason Edwards (1) ( Only guested)

Rory Schlein (3) (Poole C & P/O)

Josh Pickering (2) (Edinburgh C )

Steve Worrall (4) (Poole C , KOC & P/O)

Jack Thomas (1) (Only guested)

Jordan Jenkins (Redcar C)

Charles Wright (1) (Only guested)

Dillion Ruml (2) (Plymouth C)

Alex Spooner (1) (guested as NDL No facility guest)

James Shanes (2) (Birmingham C)

Connor Mountain (2) (Newcastle C)

Chris Harris (2) (Birmingham C)

Zach Cook (2) (Plymouth C)

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lenny Lion

[Sings4Speedway]

Hi Lenny as you are on a roll / have most of the stats to hand. Are you able to say how many times Leicester tracked a team with no guests or RR and how many opposition visited and were able to do the same?

[Lenny Lion]

3 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Hi Lenny as you are on a roll / have most of the stats to hand. Are you able to say how many times Leicester tracked a team with no guests or RR and how many opposition visited and were able to do the same?

@Sings4Speedway 

In 2021 there was only 1 meeting all season at BP that started with BOTH teams having their declared 1-7 which was 
Scunthorpe in KOC 12/6/21 but it didn’t finish 7 v 7 because Josh Auty had a season ending crash with Dan Thompson & was withdrawn from the meeting.

In total

Leicester used 4 guests & used R/R 2 times . 

Opponents used 15 guests & R/R 6 times .

Leicester started 9 home meetings with their declared 1-7 

The only team to have their declared 1-7 start a meeting was Scunthorpe in the above mentioned KOC match.

So at Leicester there was 19 guests used in total with R/R being used 8 times. 

[mikebv]

Amazed this sport cannot get some major companies wanting to sponsor it.....  

[szkocjasid]

I have no issues with guests being used, as there isn't a simple alternative.

That being said, the rules should make it harder for teams to strengthen up when a rider is missing.

Currently you can replace a home rider with his average + 5% and an away rider to his average. I think it would make more sense to be home rider missing = average & away rider missing = average -5%.

You can pick a track specialist away from home, so losing 5% of an ave seems fair. Plus teams may be more likely to look for replacements if guests needed lower aves!

Edited December 3, 2021 by szkocjasid

[MartinBSN]

15 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

I have no issues with guests being used, as there isn't a simple alternative.

That being said, the rules should make it harder for teams to strengthen up when a rider is missing.

Currently you can replace a home rider with his average + 5% and an away rider to his average. I think it would make more sense to be home rider missing = average & away rider missing = average -5%.

You can pick a track specialist away from home, so losing 5% of an ave seems fair. Plus teams may be more likely to look for replacements if guests needed lower aves!

Or you could use home/away averages

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Marshall07 said:

Or you could use home/away averages

Or pro actively, you could stop running meetings when you know well in advance that certain riders are elsewhere...

Or you could run a fit for purpose RR system that allows all eligible riders to take seven riders max each at any meeting..

Many riders DU to make ends meet so, (given so few meetings run with full contracted teams), many would average around six riders an evening, which can only help their coffers.. 

And also, very importantly  keep the meeting as a credible entity which may mean more punters go along to watch...

[lbw]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

Amazed this sport cannot get some major companies wanting to sponsor it.....  

Could get one of the major TV companies, they av plenty of guests on their shows! 

Edited December 3, 2021 by PirateShip

[Skodaman]

On 12/3/2021 at 5:29 PM, mikebv said:

Or pro actively, you could stop running meetings when you know well in advance that certain riders are elsewhere...

Or you could run a fit for purpose RR system that allows all eligible riders to take seven riders max each at any meeting..

Many riders DU to make ends meet so, (given so few meetings run with full contracted teams), many would average around six riders an evening, which can only help their coffers.. 

And also, very importantly  keep the meeting as a credible entity which may mean more punters go along to watch...

And find at the end of the season that teams are struggling to complete their fixtures!

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, Skodaman said:

And find at the end of the season that teams are struggling to complete their fixtures!

The top league is having to contrive some cup competition to stretch the season..

The 2nd Division include six teams in the play offs to offer up an extended season for clubs..

And hardly any non UK based riders now too, so plenty of nights available to run a season with zero fixture clashes with other countries meetings...

They even clash with their own U21 Championship fixtures for crying out loud..

The bottom line is they have guests because they can, and it's far easier to do this than run the sport properly...

[leander]

On 12/3/2021 at 3:53 PM, szkocjasid said:

I have no issues with guests being used, as there isn't a simple alternative.

That being said, the rules should make it harder for teams to strengthen up when a rider is missing.

Currently you can replace a home rider with his average + 5% and an away rider to his average. I think it would make more sense to be home rider missing = average & away rider missing = average -5%.

You can pick a track specialist away from home, so losing 5% of an ave seems fair. Plus teams may be more likely to look for replacements if guests needed lower aves!

Yes there is. Each team has a nominated number 8. If both teams are using R/R and/or guest then highest reserve moves into his spot and number 8's step up into the vacant reserve slot. guests were virtually unheard of in the mid 70's and the number of R/R's was vastly reduced as a similar scenario to this was used.

[The Third Man]

8 minutes ago, leander said:

Yes there is. Each team has a nominated number 8. If both teams are using R/R and/or guest then highest reserve moves into his spot and number 8's step up into the vacant reserve slot. guests were virtually unheard of in the mid 70's and the number of R/R's was vastly reduced as a similar scenario to this was used.

It was, and RR was only used for heat leaders, all others were replaced with number 8's

[szkocjasid]

18 minutes ago, leander said:

Yes there is. Each team has a nominated number 8. If both teams are using R/R and/or guest then highest reserve moves into his spot and number 8's step up into the vacant reserve slot. guests were virtually unheard of in the mid 70's and the number of R/R's was vastly reduced as a similar scenario to this was used.

But what if a team is missing 3 or 4 riders?

[mikebv]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:57 PM, szkocjasid said:

But what if a team is missing 3 or 4 riders?

Dont organise the meeting....

[szkocjasid]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:57 PM, szkocjasid said:

But what if a team is missing 3 or 4 riders?

 

58 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Don't organise the meeting....

Two thoughts on this, what if these missing riders will be out for months? Also fans who have booked hotels in advance will be out of pocket, if meeting cancelled.

[mikebv]

21 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

 

Two thoughts on this, what if these missing riders will be out for months? Also fans who have booked hotels in advance will be out of pocket, if meeting cancelled.

Always a possibility I suppose, but lets be honest, promoters cancel meetings days out using weather forecasts without a thought for fans....

And watching such a farcical situation as 3 guests and RR isn't worth much of a watch (nor financial outlay), I would suggest.. 

I was once working in London and the Aces were at Lakeside so thought I would go along as had never been to Lakeside..

The meeting was on the same weekend as (I think), 3 GP Qualifiers at various points around Europe, with the Aces having three representatives in them and one injury..

Needless to say I didnt bother to go as the 'Aces' had RR and three guests.. 

Who in the their right mind agreed to ride this meeting that weekend, knowing one team would have zero comparison to its usual septet? 

Well for one. The team that knew the Aces would need guests so put the fixture forward.. ..

And for two. The Aces themselves who knew they could bring three track specialist ringers in to replace riders not too enamoured by the Lakeside track..

Pretty sure the 'Aces' won too...

The sport on the other hand, definitely didnt win...