British Speedway

[Fortythirtyeight]

4 minutes ago, Pieman72 said:

So why is British Speedway on life support and European Speedway is healthy?

Outside Poland which country do you think is healthy ?

Sweden matches are mostly run infront of three figure crowds , the rest a lot less. Sponsors pay the for the clubs to run because of TV coverage.

Long Track gets bigger crowds than speedway in both Germany and France , the others don’t even have proper leagues.

Poland is huge because their football is poor in comparison to other countries and they price speedway correctly to attract family’s , that attracts sponsors, which brings cash , that attracts stars!

[Bavarian]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Outside Poland which country do you think is healthy ?

Sweden matches are mostly run infront of three figure crowds , the rest a lot less. Sponsors pay the for the clubs to run because of TV coverage.

Long Track gets bigger crowds than speedway in both Germany and France , the others don’t even have proper leagues.

Poland is huge because their football is poor in comparison to other countries and they price speedway correctly to attract family’s , that attracts sponsors, which brings cash , that attracts stars!

Long Track does not get such big crowds here in Germany anymore. With one or two exceptions attendance figures are less than for the big speedway meetings. 

You are spot on with Poland. They price their league meetings low and affordable for youths and families to attend, which has a very positive effect on crowd figures, which attracts sponsors, tv etc. Riders are "stars" or at least familiar names with the public because they are omni-present on Polish TV and other media. And the Polish speedway stadia facilities are of a good quality, which is another important fact .   

 

[mikebv]

There is somewhat of a myth re the pricing structure in Poland..

To us, it is "cheap". However, to the average Pole it is pretty much similar to us when measured (pro rata) against earnings..

What they do have, which we dont however, is a "proper sport", rather than a "sports entertainment"..

Which therefore, gives fans that tribal feeling of following a team, gives the mainstream media something to cover that means a lot to many of the population, so brings in excellent audiences, and therefore also gives sponsors the opportunity to get their names out to a huge audience nationally...

And they also, of course run at "family friendly" weekends....

You can take it as read that the day Zmarzlik dons a Wroclaw body colour to replace an injured Woffy, or Majic pulls on Gorzow colours to replace a missing Zmarzlik, that Polish Speedway will cease to be what it is today, and fans, media and sponsors would desert it in droves...

Sweden's crowds were severely impacted by Covid rules so it will be interesting to see how next year goes..

It is clear from watching on TV how very similar their demographic of fan is to the fan found over here which doesnt bode well for their future, just like it sadly doesnt over here....

They do though still have credibility in the way they run their top League so have managed to keep a major sponsor interested which may be vital over the next few years..

[topsoil]

8 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Outside Poland which country do you think is healthy ?

Sweden matches are mostly run infront of three figure crowds , the rest a lot less. Sponsors pay the for the clubs to run because of TV coverage.

Long Track gets bigger crowds than speedway in both Germany and France , the others don’t even have proper leagues.

Poland is huge because their football is poor in comparison to other countries and they price speedway correctly to attract family’s , that attracts sponsors, which brings cash , that attracts stars!

Speedway in Poland will eventually ruin all the other domestic leagues. And will it grow any in that country at the expense of all the other nations? The recent statement of 139,000 viewers for each meeting on tv doesn't suggest so.

I would also suggest 'huge' being put into perspective.

[HenryW]

9 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Sweden matches are mostly run infront of three figure crowds , the rest a lot less. Sponsors pay the for the clubs to run because of TV coverage.

Long Track gets bigger crowds than speedway in both Germany and France , the others don’t even have proper leagues.

Poland is huge because their football is poor in comparison to other countries and they price speedway correctly to attract family’s , that attracts sponsors, which brings cash , that attracts stars!

As has already been mentioned, the crowd figures from Sweden this year should probably not be taken as a good guide to what they CAN attract.
Despite what some people in other parts of this forum might imply, Sweden was NOT a restriction free nirvana during covid.
There were fairly harsh limits on sporting events for most of this season...A check on the change in Swedish football attendances between 2019 and 2021 would confirm that things were NOT normal there.
That's NOT to say that Swedish speedway isn't seeing a reduction in attendance in recent years...Even before covid attendances were going down, but not to the level of 3 figure crowds, so lets wait and see what happens next year.

Someone else has said that Long track does NOT get bigger crowds in Germany now. France might be accurate, I don't know...But I am confused by the statement that "the others don't even have proper leagues"...In the context of the comment that seemed to suggest that aside from UK, Sweden and Poland there are no proper leagues in Europe.
How are you defining a "proper league" there?
What about Denmark? Czechia? Russia?

I also am not convinced by the suggestion that speedway is "huge" in Poland, or that their success is down to a lower level of football..although I guess a case could be made for that.
Speedway is big, but not huge, in Poland, and only in certain markets, mainly outside of the major Cities.
The big speedway places in Poland tend to be cities/towns that don't have reasonably big or successful football teams...The only exception that I can think of is Wroclaw.
As I said, you could argue that they only get crowds because the football teams are poor...OR it could be that the football teams are poor because the public prefers their successful speedway teams and that holds back the development of a more competitive football scene 

58 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Speedway in Poland will eventually ruin all the other domestic leagues. And will it grow any in that country at the expense of all the other nations? The recent statement of 139,000 viewers for each meeting on tv doesn't suggest so.

I would also suggest 'huge' being put into perspective.

Just taking the devil's advocate position on this claim...
IS Polish speedway doing anything right now that British speedway didn't do back in the 60's, 70's, early 80's when it was on top of the pile?
Personally, I think that the failings can be traced back to what British speedway did back then, and we are reaping what we sowed...Obviously that doesn't mean that we should continue in the same way but, as Brits, it's hard to complain about other leagues doing what the British league did when it was on top.

[topsoil]

8 hours ago, HenryW said:

As has already been mentioned, the crowd figures from Sweden this year should probably not be taken as a good guide to what they CAN attract.
Despite what some people in other parts of this forum might imply, Sweden was NOT a restriction free nirvana during covid.
There were fairly harsh limits on sporting events for most of this season...A check on the change in Swedish football attendances between 2019 and 2021 would confirm that things were NOT normal there.
That's NOT to say that Swedish speedway isn't seeing a reduction in attendance in recent years...Even before covid attendances were going down, but not to the level of 3 figure crowds, so lets wait and see what happens next year.

Someone else has said that Long track does NOT get bigger crowds in Germany now. France might be accurate, I don't know...But I am confused by the statement that "the others don't even have proper leagues"...In the context of the comment that seemed to suggest that aside from UK, Sweden and Poland there are no proper leagues in Europe.
How are you defining a "proper league" there?
What about Denmark? Czechia? Russia?

I also am not convinced by the suggestion that speedway is "huge" in Poland, or that their success is down to a lower level of football..although I guess a case could be made for that.
Speedway is big, but not huge, in Poland, and only in certain markets, mainly outside of the major Cities.
The big speedway places in Poland tend to be cities/towns that don't have reasonably big or successful football teams...The only exception that I can think of is Wroclaw.
As I said, you could argue that they only get crowds because the football teams are poor...OR it could be that the football teams are poor because the public prefers their successful speedway teams and that holds back the development of a more competitive football scene 

Just taking the devil's advocate position on this claim...
IS Polish speedway doing anything right now that British speedway didn't do back in the 60's, 70's, early 80's when it was on top of the pile?
Personally, I think that the failings can be traced back to what British speedway did back then, and we are reaping what we sowed...Obviously that doesn't mean that we should continue in the same way but, as Brits, it's hard to complain about other leagues doing what the British league did when it was on top.

If you want to look for 'failings' i would look at the fact that very few clubs ever owned their owned tracks / stadiums when starting up or when the going was good.

My only beef with the Polish league is their insistence, which they would love to bring in, that riders only ride in the ekstraliga and nowhere else, when it leads to a clear shortage elsewhere. I am not jealous of their success or the big tv money deals, good luck to them on that front.

[arnieg]

8 hours ago, HenryW said:

As has already been mentioned, the crowd figures from Sweden this year should probably not be taken as a good guide to what they CAN attract.
Despite what some people in other parts of this forum might imply, Sweden was NOT a restriction free nirvana during covid.
There were fairly harsh limits on sporting events for most of this season...A check on the change in Swedish football attendances between 2019 and 2021 would confirm that things were NOT normal there.
That's NOT to say that Swedish speedway isn't seeing a reduction in attendance in recent years...Even before covid attendances were going down, but not to the level of 3 figure crowds, so lets wait and see what happens next year.

Someone else has said that Long track does NOT get bigger crowds in Germany now. France might be accurate, I don't know...But I am confused by the statement that "the others don't even have proper leagues"...In the context of the comment that seemed to suggest that aside from UK, Sweden and Poland there are no proper leagues in Europe.
How are you defining a "proper league" there?
What about Denmark? Czechia? Russia?

I also am not convinced by the suggestion that speedway is "huge" in Poland, or that their success is down to a lower level of football..although I guess a case could be made for that.
Speedway is big, but not huge, in Poland, and only in certain markets, mainly outside of the major Cities.
The big speedway places in Poland tend to be cities/towns that don't have reasonably big or successful football teams...The only exception that I can think of is Wroclaw.
As I said, you could argue that they only get crowds because the football teams are poor...OR it could be that the football teams are poor because the public prefers their successful speedway teams and that holds back the development of a more competitive football scene 

Just taking the devil's advocate position on this claim...
IS Polish speedway doing anything right now that British speedway didn't do back in the 60's, 70's, early 80's when it was on top of the pile?
Personally, I think that the failings can be traced back to what British speedway did back then, and we are reaping what we sowed...Obviously that doesn't mean that we should continue in the same way but, as Brits, it's hard to complain about other leagues doing what the British league did when it was on top.

Spot on. I've frequently pointed out the double standards of British fans who had not the slightest qualms in the 70s when Britain deprived other countries of their top riders. Why should we expect the Poles to behave any differently? We simply have to adapt to the circumstances we are in.

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, arnieg said:

Spot on. I've frequently pointed out the double standards of British fans who had not the slightest qualms in the 70s when Britain deprived other countries of their top riders. Why should we expect the Poles to behave any differently? We simply have to adapt to the circumstances we are in.

One of the clear failings of those in charge a decade or so ago was to keep clinging on to the worlds best, paying them big money from the TV deal, putting up admission fees to subsidise their costs, and moving fixtures around ad nauseam to accommodate them.. 

Then, when fixtures inevitably couldn't always be changed, they loaded their teams with guest replacements across the board..

And then when the cash ran out, the big names steadily cleared off..

The irony being of course that as they paid out big money to these "must have" riders, crowds were annually dropping even when they were there, largely due to the admission increases, the fixture changes and the lack of credibility that so many meetings took place under...

Quite simply they should have reigned in their egos and cut their cloth accordingly and paid out less to "lesser" riders who were 100% available and, on the back of this, reduce the admission prices previously raised to either pay the big names and/or cover the missing punters from the previous season.. 

Should have just "gone it alone" and focused on developing British talent..

More irony is that what we now have racing wise is good, as most riders are similarly matched..

Unfortunately that is in the main because the same riders race each other all the time in both leagues, which restricts race nights to open on, regardless of whether it is the best one for your business..

It needs a "five year plan" maybe? 

[Pieman72]

Speedway was always an affordable working class family orientated sport with local riders mixed with the odd foreign rider looking to the future. The promoters have changed it to an expensive elderly male orientated sport looking inwards propped up with expensive foreign riders Wolverhampton and CVS seem to be leading the charge.

[*JJ]

On 11/12/2021 at 12:07 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

Oh, and a local lad from Redcar travelled to Kent for his home meetings and we have a very young junior regularly attending Redcar sessions from Plymouth so, if your dedicated enough, there are opportunities !

Well, I bet that he wasn't travelling in a pensioner's car!

[Pieman72]

4 minutes ago, *JJ said:

Well, I bet that he wasn't travelling in a pensioner's car!

A speedway track needs an income to pay the bills. Attracting a younger clientele at an affordable price may stop the closures?

[Humphrey Appleby]

7 hours ago, arnieg said:

Spot on. I've frequently pointed out the double standards of British fans who had not the slightest qualms in the 70s when Britain deprived other countries of their top riders. Why should we expect the Poles to behave any differently? We simply have to adapt to the circumstances we are in.

I'm not sure Britain exactly 'deprived' other countries of their top riders in the 70s. Poland was behind the Iron Curtain, and I don't think the Swedish Leagues allowed riders to make a decent living by itself. Even then, apart from a brief period, I think Swedish riders in the BL also competed in the Swedish leagues, and I'd guess German Longtracks also pulled a lot of the top speedway riders in those days.

The Danish and German leagues started to professionalise in the 1980s, but even then, I doubt any riders could make a living in them by themselves. 

[Deano]

does the Danish government still fund some kind of junior speedway. I may have dreamed it, but thought I read they subsidised Danish kids on speedway bikes?

[*JJ]

20 hours ago, Pieman72 said:

A speedway track needs an income to pay the bills. Attracting a younger clientele at an affordable price may stop the closures?

I'm not sure what you mean here? I was replying to someone who criticised me for not driving all the way to Berwick or Edinburgh for a rider to practice. I was over 70 at the time.

[steve roberts]

20 hours ago, Pieman72 said:

Speedway was always an affordable working class family orientated sport with local riders mixed with the odd foreign rider looking to the future. The promoters have changed it to an expensive elderly male orientated sport looking inwards propped up with expensive foreign riders Wolverhampton and CVS seem to be leading the charge.

Wolverhampton were always reliant on Foreign riders during my time following the sport. Were never really known for their British rider reliabilty.