Doners123 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 Looking at possible team members for next season and scrolling threw previous Greensheets. Few questions, if anyone can help…. 1) if a rider hasn’t rode in the championahip but rode in the premiership last year how do you convert the average ? 2) if a rider rode in the championship the season before last would it be that average used ? Further on from that if they rode in the championship 2 years ago but prem last year would you use the old average or converted average ?! Any help be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 Until the agm confirms it for 2022 its difficult to calculate precisely. The conversion from Prem to Champ was x1.5 and due to increase to 1.6 for 2021 but was suspended due to Covid delays. The original plan was to increase the converter eventually to x2.0 over a few seasons, but as we know plans can change.. As always the BSPL Directors reserve the right to adjust a rider's average if he's been out of British speedway for a few seasons!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doners123 Posted November 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 As examples….. ( I know these are not necessarily realistic but using as examples) brady Kurtz… what would his champ avg be ? 2021 prem average - 7.35 2017 chanp average - 7.65 I assume you’d times it by 1.5 meaning he would be on an 11 average ?! Or would he be on his old champ average ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 32 minutes ago, Doners123 said: As examples….. ( I know these are not necessarily realistic but using as examples) brady Kurtz… what would his champ avg be ? 2021 prem average - 7.35 2017 chanp average - 7.65 I assume you’d times it by 1.5 meaning he would be on an 11 average ?! Or would he be on his old champ average ? The most recent MA is used unless the rider has averages in both leagues for the current season. In your example Kurtz’ PL average would be converted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 Logic would dictate that the conversion factor should be adjusted to 1.25 (or thereabouts) to reflect the reality of the differences between the leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 4 hours ago, arnieg said: Logic would dictate that the conversion factor should be adjusted to 1.25 (or thereabouts) to reflect the reality of the differences between the leagues. 'Logic'??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 5 hours ago, NeilWatson said: The most recent MA is used unless the rider has averages in both leagues for the current season. In your example Kurtz’ PL average would be converted. Agree. A more interesting example might be if Chris Holder was to return. His last Premiership CMA is 7.16 from when he 'left' Kings Lynn in 2017!! I wonder what reduction/conversion he would get if returning to a Championship side in 2022? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASpeedwayfan Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Agree. A more interesting example might be if Chris Holder was to return. His last Premiership CMA is 7.16 from when he 'left' Kings Lynn in 2017!! I wonder what reduction/conversion he would get if returning to a Championship side in 2022? That would be nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 With so many riders being heat leaders in both leagues you would think the conversion factor could be a pretty accurate one.. Get the mean collective average all these riders for both leagues and the difference between them is the conversion rate.. You couldn't get a more accurate figure I would think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, mikebv said: With so many riders being heat leaders in both leagues you would think the conversion factor could be a pretty accurate one.. Get the mean collective average all these riders for both leagues and the difference between them is the conversion rate.. You couldn't get a more accurate figure I would think.. See my post above. I compared the GSAs of 24 riders whose official average in both leagues includes at least 12 2021 matches and came out at 1.23. Only 4 riders had a ratio in excess of 1.5 ( these are your bargain signings in the PL) - Riss, Allen, Batchelor, St Worrall But 4 riders had a ratio of under 1.1 - Etheridge, Nicol, Toft and Rowe. These are the riders that Championship teams should be fighting to sign. Edited November 2, 2021 by arnieg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, arnieg said: See my post above. I compared the GSAs of 24 riders whose official average in both leagues includes at least 12 2021 matches and came out at 1.23. Only 4 riders had a ratio in excess of 1.5 ( these are your bargain signings in the PL) - Riss, Allen, Batchelor, St Worrall But 4 riders had a ratio of under 1.1 - Etheridge, Nicol, Toft and Rowe. These are the riders that Championship teams should be fighting to sign. As close as you could get using some "science" I would suggest.. Obviously in the real world the final conversion rate will be influenced by teams already having riders signed up on what they believe to be the conversion rate that all should follow.. A conversion rate that, when agreed by all, "miraculously" allows some to then track the team they wanted.. Edit: Given they won the Premier League with six Championship heat leaders, Peterborough would be a perfect measure to use to define the (as near as damn it), true difference between levels... Edited November 2, 2021 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Surely if the doubling up is to be phased out as best it can then the conversion needs to go up if anything. Force riders to only be able to ride in one league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Surely if the doubling up is to be phased out as best it can then the conversion needs to go up if anything. Force riders to only be able to ride in one league Given how few tracks now operate it could actually become a possibility... Of course it would mean some pro active equalisation of team strengths done fairly, to ensure all teams have access to (probably), a couple of decent heat leaders.. To give the riders enough meetings, and still ensure the league finishes on time (), you would probably need to do all teams home and away once, and then split the leagues geographically into two and run home and away against them.. Play offs from the top two from each split league.. Throw in a cup comp and enough matches for the riders? Edited November 2, 2021 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Given how few tracks now operate it could actually become a possibility... Of course it would mean some pro active equalisation of team strengths done fairly, to ensure all teams have access to (probably), a couple of decent heat leaders.. To give the riders enough meetings, and still ensure the league finishes on time (), you would probably need to do all teams home and away once, and then split the leagues geographically into two and run home and away against them.. Play offs from the top two from each split league.. Throw in a cup comp and enough matches for the riders? That is exactly what was planned for 2020 to be fair. With the vision of pushing the conversion rate up over the years also. Makes total sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Averages are now pointless in a shrinking sport where allocation of riders to teams is more important not a restrictive outdated practise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Marshall07 said: Surely if the doubling up is to be phased out as best it can then the conversion needs to go up if anything. Force riders to only be able to ride in one league I would think that this is a bit hard to enforce as 1 rider has already been to court for freedom of work to ride in 2 leagues. Plus, how would you reduce the number of double league riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 When Adam Ellis signed for Scunthorpe he used his Sheffield CMA x 1.5 despite having a 2019 Champ ave. So in 2022 what's to stop the reverse from happening? Ellis signs for a Champ side on his 7.66 ave but not for a Prem side. Then after a week joins a Prem side on a converted ave (7.66 / 1.5 = 5.11) rather than his Prem ave of 8.12! The same could happen to Anders Rowe 4.09 / 1.5 = 3.00 (minimum ave) rather than 4.46 or Cameron Heeps 4.95 / 1.5 = 4.00 (minimum ave) instead of 5.10! It's like the rules almost encourage teams to "think outside the box" and wait to sign riders on converted aves! I looked at 3 riders with Prem aves higher than their Champ ones to illustrate this point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Adam Ellis first match for Scunny was 25/6. So June Premiership average is converted (x1.5) & used. Sheffield's June aves were any fixtures up to & including May 23rd. Ellis didn't ride for Sheffield till 27/5. So his June ave must've been his last 20 Prem matches in 2019! So instead of using his 2019 Champ ave, he uses his 2019 Prem ave converted! Is that not daft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizer Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: Adam Ellis first match for Scunny was 25/6. So June Premiership average is converted (x1.5) & used. Sheffield's June aves were any fixtures up to & including May 23rd. Ellis didn't ride for Sheffield till 27/5. So his June ave must've been his last 20 Prem matches in 2019! So instead of using his 2019 Champ ave, he uses his 2019 Prem ave converted! Is that not daft? Bonkers. Absolutely bonkers. But then are we surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.