Eastbourne Speedway

[Tsunami]

2 hours ago, PirateShip said:

Probably cost them more to take out a legal case than wot they are owed.

We've had the odd shady character or 2 at Long Eaton but av also had the best in the business run the club.  The club was always well supported though with  crowds in excess of 1000 per meeting so thankfully I don't think anyone was owed money.

Surely the BSPL shud now do more to vet individuals/companies to make sure that they av a certain amount of assets (cash/property) which can be used to pay riders etc should circumstances dictate the need to do so.

Hope all works out at Eastbourne and someone comes in to run the club who as a conscience.

 

The Bond that all promoters have to lodge with BSPL is the way of covering all speedway debts. Riders can claim from that, but the standard rate for all riders would be a lot less that their actual own contract pay rate.  

[M.D]

54 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

The Bond that all promoters have to lodge with BSPL is the way of covering all speedway debts. Riders can claim from that, but the standard rate for all riders would be a lot less that their actual own contract pay rate.  

And if the bond has been used up in fines?

Hypothetically of course

Edited November 29, 2021 by M.D

[Ghosty]

5 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said:

With all these riders allegedly owed money by the company running Speedway at Arlington in 2021, they surely have reason  to seek legal advice to attempt to recover the monies allegedly owed. 

Or is it the case that none of these riders have anything that will stand up in court to prove that they are owed money ? The Douglas/Cook promotion at Lakeside and recently the Jordan/ Cook/ Fineing promotion at Eastbourne must be held to account.

 

 

They were all part of the Limited Company that ran the speedway -when things go bad they can just wash their hands of it & walk away. Just like Nigel Wagstaff did a few years ago @ Oxford Silver Machine pulled the plug on the speedway owing thousands while Mr & Mrs Wagstaff drove around in 2 brand new matching cars! Not nice but legal. 

 It's been said before but don't the team captains have to sign paperwork that all is in order with wages being paid up-to-date prior to the start of each meeting?

[Racin Jason 72]

The riders are powerless to protest.  If they refuse to ride they are given a 28 day ban. 

[Fromafar]

13 minutes ago, Racin Jason 72 said:

The riders are powerless to protest.  If they refuse to ride they are given a 28 day ban. 

If they stuck to the rules about paid up to date,why should they be banned if they refused to to ride.Trouble is riders don’t want to rock to boat on what their wages are.I know a couple of riders who had to ride for the same Team the next season just to make sure they got their money they were owed from the previous season.They were really held to ransom.Their own making though,no sympathy for them.

[stevehone]

1 hour ago, Racin Jason 72 said:

The riders are powerless to protest.  If they refuse to ride they are given a 28 day ban. 

one rule that needs changing, or things will go the same way at clubs again

[mikebv]

23 hours ago, Lord Skid said:

The Riders will get their basic money paid by the BSPL, the 'extras' won't get paid, it's happened so many times before,  bigger fool the Riders for letting it carry on so long.

If you 'withdraw your services' when not getting paid, you get banned for 28 days...

Meaning you could lose more in future earnings than you are actually owed...

Not much therefore, in the way of proper options  for the riders is there?

Does the Captain not still sign that declaration that no money is owed? 

And didn't the bond used to be £50k in either assets or cash?  

Presume that has changed?

Edited November 30, 2021 by mikebv

[Wee Eck]

5 hours ago, mikebv said:

If you 'withdraw your services' when not getting paid, you get banned for 28 days...

Meaning you could lose more in future earnings than you are actually owed...

Not much therefore, in the way of proper options  for the riders is there?

Does the Captain not still sign that declaration that no money is owed? 

And didn't the bond used to be £50k in either assets or cash?  

Presume that has changed?

The bond is round about £10-12k. Teams then have to have a retained list with minimum values depending on the league. Something like £15k for CL and £25k for PL. If they don’t have that, then they need to lodge additional cash to top up the values. 
All very antiquated - retained lists need to be abolished and replaced by a far higher bond of at least the £50k that you quote. 

[FromBendThree]

Would I be right in thinking that Eastbourne does not have any assets against its name? It seems that the BSPL took away any assets they might have had when the club closed in the summer. Before that, the club was NDL and were there any assets there - and if so, did they not pass to the bspl at closure. Going back to Elite league days, I can only think of Michelsen as an asset who rode for Eastbourne and who is still in action. That would seem on Wee Eck's figures to mean the new consortium will need around £27K for BSPL charges and then we know the air fence needs replacing - another £20K or thereabouts. You are also going to need some money in the bank in case it rains - and it will. All in all, it is clear the new consortium has a big task to get everything in place and totally makes sense while they are not rushing into 2022, especially with so much bad blood flying around over the happenings of the season just gone. 

[M.D]

7 minutes ago, FromBendThree said:

Would I be right in thinking that Eastbourne does not have any assets against its name? It seems that the BSPL took away any assets they might have had when the club closed in the summer. Before that, the club was NDL and were there any assets there - and if so, did they not pass to the bspl at closure. Going back to Elite league days, I can only think of Michelsen as an asset who rode for Eastbourne and who is still in action. That would seem on Wee Eck's figures to mean the new consortium will need around £27K for BSPL charges and then we know the air fence needs replacing - another £20K or thereabouts. You are also going to need some money in the bank in case it rains - and it will. All in all, it is clear the new consortium has a big task to get everything in place and totally makes sense while they are not rushing into 2022, especially with so much bad blood flying around over the happenings of the season just gone. 

Eastbourne have no assets now

When the club dropped to NL racing, assets like Michelsen was transferred to Lakeside for 'safe keeping' Lakeside went bust so lost all those assets

Any assets the club then built up, like Tom Brennan, went to the BSPL when the club folded in 2021 

A new air fence is £20K or a foam fence £50K

BSPL fees are a lot more than that but we are already in a good place for 2023..

[woofers]

On 11/30/2021 at 1:12 PM, mikebv said:

If you 'withdraw your services' when not getting paid, you get banned for 28 days...

Meaning you could lose more in future earnings than you are actually owed...

Not much therefore, in the way of proper options  for the riders is there?

Does the Captain not still sign that declaration that no money is owed? 

And didn't the bond used to be £50k in either assets or cash?  

Presume that has changed?

There is a particular section in the meeting certificate (which the Clerk of the Course must ensure is completed and given to the Referee before the start of the meeting) as follows:

 “We being the TEAM CAPTAINS certify that all monies due to each member of the Team have been paid as per the Riders Agreement except as listed below”

Regardless of whether this section shows nothing, or there a list of unpaid riders on the certificate, the referee would know about it. 

But what would the referees duty be, even if they were aware of riders not being paid? Report it to the BSPA? Include it in their meeting report? Or pass the certificate over and assume someone else follows it up?

And what does “paid as per the Riders Agreement” mean? Would the team captain be privy to contractual arrangements?

Anyway, this really belongs in the past Eastbourne thread, or a General Speedway discussion rather than tainting the current one which is forward looking.

[FromBendThree]

39 minutes ago, M.D said:

Eastbourne have no assets now

When the club dropped to NL racing, assets like Michelsen was transferred to Lakeside for 'safe keeping' Lakeside went bust so lost all those assets

Any assets the club then built up, like Tom Brennan, went to the BSPL when the club folded in 2021 

A new air fence is £20K or a foam fence £50K

BSPL fees are a lot more than that but we are already in a good place for 2023..

Thanks for that update and good to hear things are in a good place for 2023

[old bob at herne bay]

I always struggle with this concept of any speedway club "assets" Virtually all clubs rent their stadiums.

So the only tangible assets seem to be

one tractor and associated grading accessories

water bowser and assorted hose for track watering

one air fence and safety fence

one starting gate and set of flags

telephone at starting gate

set of coloured exclusion lights , couple of green lights plus a string of red lights

referees box control panel.

guess they own the shale on the track ? but transport costs negate its value.

Rider assets are difficult. Bunch of self employed contractors, who may ride wherever they like for whoever they like and may decide not to ride at all for you despite you having their "signature" . (e.g. your asset may be a SGP rider but he has zero value because he no longer  chooses to ride in the UK) 

So any club has very little in the way of assets, and those assets have a very limited market. 

 

[Jimsboy]

1 hour ago, M.D said:

Eastbourne have no assets now

When the club dropped to NL racing, assets like Michelsen was transferred to Lakeside for 'safe keeping' Lakeside went bust so lost all those assets

Any assets the club then built up, like Tom Brennan, went to the BSPL when the club folded in 2021 

A new air fence is £20K or a foam fence £50K

BSPL fees are a lot more than that but we are already in a good place for 2023..

Thanks for the update MD. 

[Jimsboy]

Speedway fixtures out and really hits home no speedway at Arlington this year

[Sings4Speedway]

25 minutes ago, Jimsboy said:

Speedway fixtures out and really hits home no speedway at Arlington this year

Given how team building is going for Birmingham i think the year break (forced or otherwise) is going to be the best thing for Eastbourne longer term. Having everything in place in plenty of time will allow for both on and off track success.

[M.D]

39 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Given how team building is going for Birmingham i think the year break (forced or otherwise) is going to be the best thing for Eastbourne longer term. Having everything in place in plenty of time will allow for both on and off track success.

Also take into account Birmingham have some sort of asset base but Eastbourne have nothing left having had it all  taken back by the BSPL which would have made things even more difficult..

[cityrebel]

1 hour ago, Jimsboy said:

Speedway fixtures out and really hits home no speedway at Arlington this year

Or Central Park. A disaster for speedway in the South East.

[Jimsboy]

29 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Or Central Park. A disaster for speedway in the South East.

At least there will be some Speedway at the old Gun site. Very basic venue but can see some good support. I will be venturing there most meetings. 

[Sings4Speedway]

6 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Or Central Park. A disaster for speedway in the South East.

Great spectator venue lost but the move away has probably helped sustain a venue that has been operating in the South East for 50 years and hopefully many more to come.