Eastbourne Speedway

[Trees]

On 9/14/2022 at 10:38 PM, Tosh1218 said:

The bond is paid to help if teams fail to fulfill the season and Eastbourne have previous

Did the consortium ask the fans to help them with the 'bond'?

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, Trees said:

Did the consortium ask the fans to help them with the 'bond'?

Think the money involved in the start up is way beyond being viable in the present economics and taking into account the state of the sport in GB.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Fromafar

[old bob at herne bay]

I will be called the usual “miserable old git” etc etc but it does beg the question how any of the now dormant clubs eg Rye House, Lakeside, Coventry , Sittingbourne, Newcastle ( tempted to include Swindon as their fence must be past it’s sell by date) can ever hope to be resurrected faced with such large start up costs…..that’s before they have even got on paying spectator in their stadiums. 
 

You might think that there must be someone somewhere with a collection of old air fences, starting gates, and other paraphernalia which could aid new start up clubs ? 
 

Can you imagine going to Dragons Den as a prospective speedway club business start up ?? lol. 

[StevePark]

4 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

I will be called the usual “miserable old git” etc etc but it does beg the question how any of the now dormant clubs eg Rye House, Lakeside, Coventry , Sittingbourne, Newcastle ( tempted to include Swindon as their fence must be past it’s sell by date) can ever hope to be resurrected faced with such large start up costs…..that’s before they have even got on paying spectator in their stadiums. 
 

You might think that there must be someone somewhere with a collection of old air fences, starting gates, and other paraphernalia which could aid new start up clubs ? 
 

Can you imagine going to Dragons Den as a prospective speedway club business start up ?? lol. 

OK., I'll start.... You're a miserable old git....( )....... which makes me one as well, because, unless you have very deep pockets and don't care about losing money as if it's going out of fashion, you must be mad to even think about running a speedway team in the current environment. Speedway has been on a downward spiral for years and yet, every winter, the "powers that be" bury there heads in the sand and ignore it, so the sport will continue to spiral downwards and, eventually, there will be a league of three or four (if they are lucky).  Then it will be "well, the fans didn't turn up" and it will be all placed at our feet and they will walk away happily saying "it weren't our fault.  We did everything we could..." when the truth is they've done very little to help.

[HGould]

28 minutes ago, StevePark said:

OK., I'll start.... You're a miserable old git....( )....... which makes me one as well, because, unless you have very deep pockets and don't care about losing money as if it's going out of fashion, you must be mad to even think about running a speedway team in the current environment. Speedway has been on a downward spiral for years and yet, every winter, the "powers that be" bury there heads in the sand and ignore it, so the sport will continue to spiral downwards and, eventually, there will be a league of three or four (if they are lucky).  Then it will be "well, the fans didn't turn up" and it will be all placed at our feet and they will walk away happily saying "it weren't our fault.  We did everything we could..." when the truth is they've done very little to help.

100%

In recent times all Clubs joing have had huge start up costs that often aren't publicised.

Certainly Birmingham and Eastbourne in 2019 when moving up would have been in excess of 40k , Kent when moving up in 2020 although Lens "asset list" would have helped, Plymouth in 2021 the same although may have been eased only by Somerset late notfication to close, Brummies again when Masons left (understandably) and NT came in, meaning double whammy for Brummies from what Masons had to pay and then NT again I gather (as the issues with previous Brummies promotion in mid last decade didn't help too. Ditto all of that with Newcastle.

What message does that give to anyone wanting to make something happen (as you rightly say Steve and with obvious experiences).

It's all blamed on the Promotions that fail, or in some cases those that build teams that won't fail but on a shoestring but who don't have competitive teams as a result.

A viscious circle, they to compete and over-spend and fail, or try to budget, be uncompetitive and fail.

Godfrey is very honest about the way he runs Scunthorpe and it works for him, Bates brothers have openly admitted losing tens of thousands initially at Leicester but have deep pockets, deeper it seems than Owners at other Clubs who ran out of cash, it's good for us at Birmingham that Nigel seems determined to try again in 2023 but he's openly admitted in Speedway Star that his Company was covering costs from very early in 2022 and that the Club has lost a 6 figure sum so far. I don't know whether he's right to risk doing another season or not, only he does, but it simply isn't a sustainable business model.

Individuals are responsible for their own affairs and live or die by them, but the SPORT and DIRECTORS of The Sport e.g the Management Committee really do need to wake up and smell the coffee and actually have the balls to create a Platform from which more existing Clubs, more returning Clubs and new Clubs have a chance of survival, stability and growth.

It makes all the more remarkable the success of Oxford as an example, but how do we define success?

Survival?

Spending more than you earn and getting away with it year by year and hanging on?

Having endless pockets and happy to support it like some (Glasgow and Leicester as an example)?

Being one of the reducing few with the history and sustainability to contine (BV / Poole / Ipswich as examples)?

Where though is "The Plan"....like the Poles have. 

Answer is "there is no plan" is there?

 

 

  

[eric i]

19 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Some have picked up on the Landlords reluctance to allow NDL speedway at Arlington. Looking at the headline start up costs listed by MD - other than lower rider sign on fees, don’t see there is much difference ? 

MD posted”Air Fence (£30000) Tractor, Shale,  Possible track equipment (including new starting gate), Rider sign on fees, Upfront money for medical cover insurances. “

The successful NDL team at Arlington run by Dugard consortium, ran on the previously owned track hardware. Starting from scratch is a different challenge

 

I am sure that's true but its not a reason to prevent NDL racing. Rider wages are significant when it come to the long term sustainability of running speedway. 

[25yearfan]

Like has been said before Eastbourne speedway probably hasn't been financially viable since the halcyon Division 2/NL years of the 1970's bar maybe a couple of seasons after dropping into the 2nd tier in the mid 80's and the 3rd Division seasons a few years ago. Only Bob Dugard bankrolling it for years kept things going. Even then he nearly nearly pulled the plug during the early 1980's when the first move into the top flight was proving a big struggle and this in a time when crowds were bigger than those seen in modern times. One wonders how keen Bob Dugard would have been to keep speedway going at Arlington in the 80's had his son Marin Dugard not developed into the brilliant speedway rider he was?

 

I think British speedways is soon coming to a point where only two Leagues will be viable - a top flight for the clubs who can afford to stay professional and pay overseas riders, tracks running on nights best suited to them, ETC and a 2nd Division a little bit stronger than the current National League featuring only British riders and Commonwealth riders and run mainly on weekends and riders part time. - When this scenario arrives which I predict will happen in the next couple of years then the likes of Eastbourne and other defunct tracks will stand a better chance of reopening?  

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by 25yearfan

[eric i]

So nobody knows/says why the stadium owners won't let anyone try National League level. 

[gazzac]

5 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

Like has been said before Eastbourne speedway probably hasn't been financially viable since the halcyon Division 2/NL years of the 1970's bar maybe a couple of seasons after dropping into the 2nd tier in the mid 80's and the 3rd Division seasons a few years ago. Only Bob Dugard bankrolling it for years kept things going. Even then he nearly nearly pulled the plug during the early 1980's when the first move into the top flight was proving a big struggle and this in a time when crowds were bigger than those seen in modern times. One wonders how keen Bob Dugard would have been to keep speedway going at Arlington in the 80's had his son Marin Dugard not developed into the brilliant speedway rider he was?

 

I think British speedways is soon coming to a point where only two Leagues will be viable - a top flight for the clubs who can afford to stay professional and pay overseas riders, tracks running on nights best suited to them, ETC and a 2nd Division a little bit stronger than the current National League featuring only British riders and Commonwealth riders and run mainly on weekends and riders part time. - When this scenario arrives which I predict will happen in the next couple of years then the likes of Eastbourne and other defunct tracks will stand a better chance of reopening?  

 

 

So what your saying is a second division like the NL was in 2017/ 2018 when the likes of Eastbourne/ Kent/IOW /Birmingham were in it, before it was targeted as becoming too successful and forced to a far lower level like today, a level it seems unacceptable to the Dugards as not attracting a level of support that could be successful after start up costs.

[25yearfan]

3 hours ago, gazzac said:

So what your saying is a second division like the NL was in 2017/ 2018 when the likes of Eastbourne/ Kent/IOW /Birmingham were in it, before it was targeted as becoming too successful and forced to a far lower level like today, a level it seems unacceptable to the Dugards as not attracting a level of support that could be successful after start up costs.

Yes I guess Iam! - And I'm sure you agree the sport would be better off!

[Derrickn]

3 hours ago, gazzac said:

So what your saying is a second division like the NL was in 2017/ 2018 when the likes of Eastbourne/ Kent/IOW /Birmingham were in it, before it was targeted as becoming too successful and forced to a far lower level like today, a level it seems unacceptable to the Dugards as not attracting a level of support that could be successful after start up costs.

So what we are looking for is a new Provincial league,for those of us who are old enough to remember it.

[gazzac]

6 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

Yes I guess Iam! - And I'm sure you agree the sport would be better off!

Yes I guess I do 

[GWC]

On 9/19/2022 at 6:12 PM, Derrickn said:

So what we are looking for is a new Provincial league,for those of us who are old enough to remember it.

Even in those far off days Eastbourne didn’t join the Provincial league staying in the southern league with Rye house and California I think.

That must show there wasn’t confidence in regular league racing unless there was another reason.

[FromBendThree]

2 hours ago, GWC said:

Even in those far off days Eastbourne didn’t join the Provincial league staying in the southern league with Rye house and California I think.

That must show there wasn’t confidence in regular league racing unless there was another reason.

If you read the history of Eastbourne you will find that attendances have frequently been a worry with the club closing more than once. Arlington is out in the country. There is no walk-up crowd. You have to drive. Not on a bus route. Miles from railway station. Not in Eastbourne. Wrong side of the Hailsham bypass.

 

[old bob at herne bay]

From bend three makes a good point. After the demise of the last incarnation of the Wimbledon Dons I was friendly with a handful of ex Dons supporters who regularly travelled to EB on a Saturday evening. 
 

[SuperSpeed]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:01 PM, FromBendThree said:

Arlington is out in the country. There is no walk-up crowd. You have to drive. Not on a bus route. Miles from railway station. Not in Eastbourne. Wrong side of the Hailsham bypass.

Whilst all the above are true, people turn up in their droves to watch stock cars at the same stadium -  and the stocks charge for parking! 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, SuperSpeed said:

Whilst all the above are true, people turn up in their droves to watch stock cars at the same stadium -  and the stocks charge for parking! 

The cars are a different promoter. They rent the stadium for their racing.

[gazzac]

1 hour ago, JohnHyam said:

The cars are a different promoter. They rent the stadium for their racing.

Although probably at a reduced rate because of the historical family speedway ties, a new speedway promotion would have to rent the stadium for their racing I would imagine. 

[gazzac]

1 hour ago, SuperSpeed said:

Whilst all the above are true, people turn up in their droves to watch stock cars at the same stadium -  and the stocks charge for parking! 

I believe those figures are well down on previous years, hard times for everyone at the moment. 

[FromBendThree]

50 minutes ago, gazzac said:

I believe those figures are well down on previous years, hard times for everyone at the moment. 

It was said on another thread that stox crowds were down at Arlington this year.