steve roberts Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 As Peter Adams once said if barbed wire was introduced it would soon stop riders fidgeting about at the start when some riders moaned aout the tape touching rule and dragging clutches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangerBoy Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 4:17 PM, old bob at herne bay said: Let 'em roll creep push and stretch the tapes as much as they dare after the start marshall walks away. Ref lets the tapes up when the rolling rider is moving backwards and is left at the gate. However if the tapes are broken ....that rider is EXCLUDED. ah the good old days 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 28, 2021 Report Share Posted October 28, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 4:49 PM, old bob at herne bay said: So when old bob was younger bob back in the day, Wimbledon tried a system where a scaffold pole was placed behind the bikes at the start once the green light came on to prevent riders moving back. I must admit, I do like that.. Gets the crowd going too when its one of the opposition doing it.. There is still a delaying the start rule so that can used by the ref if he feels someone is taking the 'Gerd Riss'... It was great to see and hear Ivan getting the bird off rival fans as he went into the tapes time after time, and then hear the cheers as he rolled back and the tapes went up with him last away Mind you, he was still leading most times by the third turn, lap one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 28, 2021 Report Share Posted October 28, 2021 37 minutes ago, mikebv said: I must admit, I do like that.. Gets the crowd going too when its one of the opposition doing it.. There is still a delaying the start rule so that can used by the ref if he feels someone is taking the 'Gerd Riss'... It was great to see and hear Ivan getting the bird off rival fans as he went into the tapes time after time, and then hear the cheers as he rolled back and the tapes went up with him last away Mind you, he was still leading most times by the third turn, lap one.. Garry Middleton would lead riders into the tapes and get them excluding much to the jeers of the opposition but cheers from the rest! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHarris Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 Sorry if this has already been asked but I've seen videos from the 70's and 80's where the riders are rolling over the tapes at the start. What was the deal with this? Were they excluded if they did it so many times etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, JamesHarris said: Sorry if this has already been asked but I've seen videos from the 70's and 80's where the riders are rolling over the tapes at the start. What was the deal with this? Were they excluded if they did it so many times etc? They were only excluded if they broke the tapes or (I think) if both wheels went over the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Grachan said: They were only excluded if they broke the tapes or (I think) if both wheels went over the line. May have been if the rear spindle went over the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 Starts back in the day were a joke…it did add to the tension watching riders rolling back and forwards trying to get a flyer…but when you look back on it now it was ridiculous really and starts were completely unfair..watching the old videos now only emphasises that.. i remember the new starting laws coming in around 1984 or so and it took a lot of getting used to and a fair few exclusions but riders adapted and no doubt starts became fairer.. starts are pretty fair now as long as some start marshals ensure all riders are at the tapes and not half a mile away like the Peterborough start marshal in the final so I think it’s fine…..I still don’t mind the gardening before a race though, it all adds to the tension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 23 minutes ago, Bruiser said: Starts back in the day were a joke…it did add to the tension watching riders rolling back and forwards trying to get a flyer…but when you look back on it now it was ridiculous really and starts were completely unfair..watching the old videos now only emphasises that.. i remember the new starting laws coming in around 1984 or so and it took a lot of getting used to and a fair few exclusions but riders adapted and no doubt starts became fairer.. starts are pretty fair now as long as some start marshals ensure all riders are at the tapes and not half a mile away like the Peterborough start marshal in the final so I think it’s fine…..I still don’t mind the gardening before a race though, it all adds to the tension. I recall that Eric Gundersen in particular having difficulty adjusting primarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 I remember seeing images (1973?) when as an experiment placing boards between riders (akin to horse racing) so they couldn't distract each other. Never took off and I'm not surprised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 30, 2021 Report Share Posted October 30, 2021 7 hours ago, steve roberts said: I recall that Eric Gundersen in particular having difficulty adjusting primarily. Michael Lee didn't take to it too well either in a Test Match v the USA I seem to remember... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted October 30, 2021 Report Share Posted October 30, 2021 8 hours ago, steve roberts said: I recall that Eric Gundersen in particular having difficulty adjusting primarily. Erik did indeed have some issues adjusting to the new rules. He was quite the expert at the tape nudging...A viewing of the 1984 World Team Cup final, when FIM rules still allowed it when British rules were a bit more fuzzy, would confirm that I seem to remember going to the BLRC in 1984 hoping to see Erik win, only for him to be excluded for tape touching in a race off for the title with Morton and Nielsen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 30, 2021 Report Share Posted October 30, 2021 Hans was another who used to touch the tapes prior to the ruling but managed to adapt his technique acordingly however I do remember the inconsistances during the first season of its introduction and referees were allowed to use discretion and a race featuring both Hans and Peter Collins at Cowley whereby Hans remained still and Peter nuudged the tapes but the ref allowed the race to start and Peter got a flier beating Hans in the process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) Start Marshalls need to be much more consistent and in line with every club in the league like in Poland. No lining up at an angle other than 90 degrees to the tapes. Front wheel one inch from tapes, which need to be taut. If a rider moves they will hit the tapes and be exc. if they roll back, the will be exc. Edited November 1, 2021 by Steve Shovlar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyHawk Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 9:23 AM, iainb said: It seems perfectly simple to me, a rider should have 2 minutes to be at the start ready to race, if they touch the tapes they are excluded, what's difficult about that? Any of the other starting shenanigans are always up to interpretation, so why have them. So what if a rider gets a flyer or anticipates the start, this used to add a bit of unpredictability into proceedings, I still remember Jason Gage beating Hans Nielsen at Peterborough because he got a flyer... and Andy Meredith out trapping Hans at Coventry with Nielsen making a right pickle of trying to get round him. From the Speedway I've seen in this country, this season, the starts haven't really been an issue, I don't know if anything has changed but it doesn't seem as bad as in previous years. Watching some Swedish Speedway on the other hand and some of their starts have been terrible and you can almost guarantee the first race of every TV match will be called back... such an anti-climax. Completely agree, with this. Who cares if riders are able to anticipate the start? Isn't it another skill for a rider to have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9 Lion Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 4:53 PM, Endeavour said: Can see your point of view but referees would need to be more consistent at starts. Some let riders away with murder . I prefer refs that are sticklers for the rules. It gets my vote but only works if the Start Marshal gets all riders to start within 75mm of the tapes. This makes it much harder for a rider to roll but I think most SM's are more interested in being a riders mate rather than discharging their responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9 Lion Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 18 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Start Marshalls need to be much more consistent and in line with every club in the league like in Poland. No lining up at an angle other than 90 degrees to the tapes. Front wheel one inch from tapes, which need to be taut. If a rider moves they will hit the tapes and be exc. if they roll back, the will be exc. At present its 75mm with nothing about the riders lining up in a straight line to the kerb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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