LisaColette Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Blodorn states he's riding in UK. So is it us, wolves, Poole or Birmingham B team..? Wolves surely have Becker and unless his average is under 3 in a Champ Poole can't fit him in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Trees said: What is the alternative if your number one or more riders are injured which often happens, go into a meeting with 4 team members and a number 8? The alternative is for the powers that be to come up with something credible, something that they have failed to do for decades. However there was a time in national League speedway where guests were not allowed, so it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 11 hours ago, mikebv said: Imagine a newbie going to Ipswich a week later and finding that the Aces best rider that they had watched the week before at the NSS, was actually Ipswich's No1 rider... Very true, what about this. A newbie goes to Oxford as they have just reopened. Away on a business trip hears about Belle Vue so pops along only to find one of Oxford's riders lining up for the opposition in the top division then on their way home stops of at Birmingham to find the same Oxford rider guesting for Birmingham. Then nips to Ipswich to see that same rider guesting for Ipswich against Belle Vue. You couldn't make it up!!! Welcome to the professional British speedway leagues 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: The alternative is for the powers that be to come up with something credible, something that they have failed to do for decades. However there was a time in national League speedway where guests were not allowed, so it can be done. So you have 3 injuries, your number one, 3 and 4, you have a number 8 to use, is that it then, no guests? Or could each team nominate 2 unattached riders from a lower league and you have to use them against a top of the table team with no injuries. Foregone conclusion, fan turnout halved? The way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 In an ideal world, there should be no guests. However they are a necessary evil…we are never going to have riders waiting for a squad of riders. at the moment a guest for no 1 if chosen or if there are two heatleaders missing is a good alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 54 minutes ago, KIRKYLANE said: In an ideal world, there should be no guests. However they are a necessary evil…we are never going to have riders waiting for a squad of riders. at the moment a guest for no 1 if chosen or if there are two heatleaders missing is a good alternative. I think you'd probably have umpteen riders waiting for a squad system, but getting someone to pay for them however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 59 minutes ago, Trees said: So you have 3 injuries, your number one, 3 and 4, you have a number 8 to use, is that it then, no guests? Or could each team nominate 2 unattached riders from a lower league and you have to use them against a top of the table team with no injuries. Foregone conclusion, fan turnout halved? The way to go? Very, very rarely do you have so many injuries, with, in the main, one rider missing at most.. The main issue is that riders ride on so many nights that an injury on a Monday sees them missing Tuesday and maybe Wednesday.. Then they are back again on Thursday to rinse and repeat.. If they only rode in one division, once a week then they have seven days to improve their health, or provide the clubs with time to bring in a temp signing.. Obviously the major stumbling block to the whole speedway operating model is the 2nd Division... All down to them wanting to be at a level higher than what the 2nd Division should be at.. Which is a stepping stone between Div 3 and Div 1, or a "retirement home" for vastly experienced riders.. The tail of the 2nd Div certainly wags the Div 1 dog... Using the same riders means two teams get impacted though injury, so two meetings then use credibility destroying guests... The clear issue is that to make ends meet (and be seen as a pro sportsman), riders have to race in both leagues, therefore the UK Speedway leaders slavishly follow the guest system because, quite frankly, it is easy to do.. And boosts the riders income too.. The sport needs a root and branch review as to how its own operating model undermines it's own standing amongst its peer sports and reduces its fan base.. But, as we know, it will never happen.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, mikebv said: Very, very rarely do you have so many injuries, with, in the main, one rider missing at most.. The main issue is that riders ride on so many nights that an injury on a Monday sees them missing Tuesday and maybe Wednesday.. Then they are back again on Thursday to rinse and repeat.. If they only rode in one division, once a week then they have seven days to improve their health, or provide the clubs with time to bring in a temp signing.. Obviously the major stumbling block to the whole speedway operating model is the 2nd Division... All down to them wanting to be at a level higher than what the 2nd Division should be at.. Which is a stepping stone between Div 3 and Div 1, or a "retirement home" for vastly experienced riders.. The tail of the 2nd Div certainly wags the Div 1 dog... Using the same riders means two teams get impacted though injury, so two meetings then use credibility destroying guests... The clear issue is that to make ends meet (and be seen as a pro sportsman), riders have to race in both leagues, therefore the UK Speedway leaders slavishly follow the guest system because, quite frankly, it is easy to do.. And boosts the riders income too.. The sport needs a root and branch review as to how its own operating model undermines it's own standing amongst its peer sports and reduces its fan base.. But, as we know, it will never happen.. I have known many times teams missing more than one rider. If speedway remains relatively poor and we want to keep teams reasonably level in strength I cannot think of another answer. Take Lynn in the 2018 playoff final against Poole, lose NKI to injury before the first leg and in that meeting MPT gets injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, KIRKYLANE said: In an ideal world, there should be no guests. However they are a necessary evil…we are never going to have riders waiting for a squad of riders. at the moment a guest for no 1 if chosen or if there are two heatleaders missing is a good alternative. They also said they were a 'necessary evil' back in the halcyon days of the 70's and early 80's, yet, as has been mentioned on the forum many times before, Ipswich under John Berry proved you can operate without guests and still be highly successful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Shrub said: They also said they were a 'necessary evil' back in the halcyon days of the 70's and early 80's, yet, as has been mentioned on the forum many times before, Ipswich under John Berry proved you can operate without guests and still be highly successful. It all depends how many of your riders get injured at any one time doesn't it ..... of course if you can cover with r/r and your own riders it can work well but you need luck ie the rider you lose can be covered by strong team members, you have a strong number 6 etc ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Trees said: It all depends how many of your riders get injured at any one time doesn't it ..... of course if you can cover with r/r and your own riders it can work well but you need luck ie the rider you lose can be covered by strong team members, you have a strong number 6 etc ..... And ever since those halcyon days people keep making excuses, saying yes but... instead of dealing with the problem. As stated, Ipswich operated 13 years without guests. It can be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Shrub said: And ever since those halcyon days people keep making excuses, saying yes but... instead of dealing with the problem. As stated, Ipswich operated 13 years without guests. It can be done. Were they just lucky? How often did they win the league in that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Trees said: Were they just lucky? How often did they win the league in that time? Who cares? The biggest issue of all for the sport (in the UK), is that "winning a league" has zero kudos, no large financial rewards, nor any meaningful media coverage... All down to its lack of credibility... With that as your starting point, it has no chance.. Indeed, any professional sport that ran with such a laughable system would get treated exactly the same... If you havent got enough riders to run seven man teams, then dont.. Instead, change the team structure to suit the supply... Eg Take two riders out from each team so you have a surplus to replace injuries and fixture clashes.. Eg Run with. Two heat leaders, two second strings, one reserve.. Riders obviously need "two jobs" it would appear, so those who ride abroad for one club can ride also for one club over here, riders who already ride for two clubs abroad dont get contracted to ride over here.. All these riders are then on stand by to temporarily replace missing riders in either league if their average fits.. Those lads not riding abroad then double up over here... There are ways you could try and change the system and make winning in UK Speedway actually mean something.. It is clear that those in charge choose not to... And quite correctly they have the right to do so, as they put their money in.. But by the same token, no one should then be surprised that the sport gets such a minimal following, with hardly any public awareness and media coverage, and cannot get "big brands" to associate itself with it... Poland know that they would be in exactly the same place as UK Speedway if it ran with our domestic operating model.. Hence, they dont.. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTheAce Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Hope im proved wrong but this could be a long old season for us. Genuinely worried. We are struggling to field a team. So looks like we will be way under the points limit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTheAce Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Season tickets on sale. Get them before they sell out Not sure how u can sell season tickets without knowing what we are paying for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Hope im proved wrong but this could be a long old season for us. Genuinely worried. We are struggling to field a team. So looks like we will be way under the points limit Well Blodorn has a UK ride so he's probably riding at 6 with maybe Etheridge/Allen at 2 & 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTheAce Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Season tickets on sale. Get them before they sell out Not sure how u can sell season tickets without knowing what we are paying for So it's £260 for a season ticket, which includes a free £3 programme. That's for 13 home matches If u was to pay on the day it would cost me £260. No saving what so ever. Only saving a programme but who buys them anymore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 35 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Season tickets on sale. Get them before they sell out Not sure how u can sell season tickets without knowing what we are paying for "Buy One - Get A Team Place"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Can't believe BV are struggling to field a team with the set up/track/history/reputation they have. You would think most riders would relish having the NSS as their home track. Must be all down to money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: So it's £260 for a season ticket, which includes a free £3 programme. That's for 13 home matches If u was to pay on the day it would cost me £260. No saving what so ever. Only saving a programme but who buys them anymore Never understood why clubs do the 'free programme' thing.. The Aces could knock £39 off the season ticket price. (Hell let's go mad and knock forty quid off), and the ST then becomes more worthwhile buying... And they still may sell 13 programmes.. Presume at cost price for them it isnt really three quid so they absorb it, whilst making if sound like a good offer.. But it isn't much of an offer to the many who dont ever buy a programme, so defeats the object.. Edit: Should have added "cant understand why they do ST's full stop anymore". The amount they sell cant make much difference to cash flow surely? All it does do though is negate opportunities to do some "special offers" throughout the season... Edited January 12, 2022 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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