2022 Teams & Points average

[phillwhitewasmad]

18 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Id argue that losing two teams throughout a season that started with only 8 sides is pretty disconcerting, throw in that only one stand alone team remains and they have very little say in their sole product certainly makes it hard to imagine why any new promotions would want to apply. 

I'd argue the two teams who pulled out should of not entered in the first place absolute folly in current climate 

[Doners123]

Just to open up discussions….. 

 

Are there any riders that people think are on low enough averages to improve considerably ?

 

on to high averages that teams will find difficult to get them in ?

 

any foreign riders that may realistically sign in the championship ? 

[Jaizer]

4 minutes ago, Doners123 said:

Just to open up discussions….. 

 

Are there any riders that people think are on low enough averages to improve considerably ?

 

on to high averages that teams will find difficult to get them in ?

 

any foreign riders that may realistically sign in the championship ? 

Cameron heeps is the obvious one

Anyone with an average over 8

As a Glasgow fan and his father being my idol (see avatar) I'd like to see Fraser Bowes

 

 

 

[SteveLyric2]

As long as the visa situation can be sorted then I reckon there will be at least 3 new Aussie lads to UK racing!!!!

 

NB. with most fans raving about young Mr Hellstrom-Bangs, I see his interview in the Star this week reckons he'll be doing Poland/Sweden/Denmark in 2022, with the aim to do UK in 2-3 years time!!

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skidder1

[1 valve]

20 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

I feel the Championship needs to be weaker,

1) to encourage the likes of Poole / Glasgow / Leicester to step up

Leicester can’t “step up” unless there is a change of owner. 

[lewy]

1 hour ago, Doners123 said:

Just to open up discussions….. 

 

Are there any riders that people think are on low enough averages to improve considerably ?

 

on to high averages that teams will find difficult to get them in ?

 

any foreign riders that may realistically sign in the championship ? 

Jason crump definitely an improvement to be had

Edited October 21, 2021 by lewy

[Fortythirtyeight]

18 hours ago, Diamonds85 said:

British speedway desperately needs to get the likes of Thorsell, Lindgren, Zagar, Doyle, Milik back into the country... These are the types of riders the top league should have. Realistically we aren't gonna get Zmarzlik or Sayfutdinovs of the world... But a top league full of the names previously mentioned, would be really nice to see...

Fricke, Lambert, Woffinden, Lebedevs... All these big names who are no more in this country... It's very sad to see.

Totally wrong. The state of British speedway at this current time means they can’t afford to bring such riders in even if those riders wished to come. Those riders aren’t here because they chase the money and there’s none left in the UK.

When Somerset signed Jason Doyle , world champion at the time, it added exactly zero to their gate receipts and created a massive hole in their wages budget. A recipe for disaster ? the club never recovered and where are they now !

[ruffdiamond]

20 hours ago, JanAndersen said:

Disagree. British Speedway needs to make an effort to arrest the current decline. I don’t have the answer on how it is done but strengthening the top league has to be a better plan than running down the championship. 

Maybe the strength of the top league is 'maxed out'?,,, so if it was like painting, you might water down the undercoats to make the top coat look better. 

[Diamondboy]

44 minutes ago, lewy said:

Jason crump definitely an improvement to be had

Maybe he is just too old and not really interested, or old and not really fit enough compared to the younger riders?

[ruffdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Diamondboy said:

Maybe he is just too old and not really interested, or old and not really fit enough compared to the younger riders?

Maybe he's just 'chip wrappers' now?

[LisaColette]

24 minutes ago, Diamondboy said:

Maybe he is just too old and not really interested, or old and not really fit enough compared to the younger riders?

Did really well at Poole when Plymouth were last down. 

[Najjer]

8 hours ago, lisa-colette said:

Skidder prob knows exactly why. But a figure around 30% lower costs in the Championship was said when discussing with fans if Poole should move down  or  not. Also some of that might be attendances as well. More Poole fans attend on Wednesday than a Thursday. 

That doesn’t explain why costs are higher. Whether there is more or less fans in attendance has no bearing on cost. It potentially has an effect on profit, but not costs.

Some say it’s the same riders so therefore it has to be same costs - unless some promotors have got their sums wrong or actually it isn’t the same riders after all. Be interesting to see what percentage of all riders competing in the two divisions actually ride in both leagues.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Najjer

[The Dog]

23 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

Premiership 

36 points team building with 1 x Rising Star

Championship 

30 point team building with 2 x Rising Stars 

The problem I see with this is that half the riders would achieve an average that would keep them out of a team for the following year. 

I'd go the other way and increase the team average to 49 or 50 points. You'll never build to that number but riders could race without fear of being redundant afterwards... 

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

Maybe the strength of the top league is 'maxed out'?,,, so if it was like painting, you might water down the undercoats to make the top coat look better. 

Spot on..

However..

To dilute the 2nd tier to make the top look stronger (the right thing to do for me as the sport needs a 'top tier' with a clear standard demarcation to 'sell it'), would mean a lot of riders not being allowed to 'double down'...

Which may not be met too positively by both riders and 2nd tier promoters who, in the riders case, wont want to give up the chance to earn the money they did this year, and in the 2nd tier promoters case, they have become used to having "the best we have over here" riding for them, (maybe even doing so at a lower rate than the top tier pay them for the same thing)...

 

[Sings4Speedway]

15 hours ago, Doners123 said:

Just to open up discussions….. 

 

Are there any riders that people think are on low enough averages to improve considerably ?

 

on to high averages that teams will find difficult to get them in ?

 

any foreign riders that may realistically sign in the championship ? 

Much depends upon the team building averages but if mooted low limits and 2 x RS then mathematically all riders 'should' see an increase. 'If' the team building plans are then held the same for 2023 it will means some riders have to move up or move out whilst making way for the next progressive riders to take their place.....in theory great but in practice the riders coming in will be the better of a weakened NDL, the riders moving up will be the better of a weakened CL and those remaining will be middle of the road riders but by 2024 they will be heat leaders and the process repeats. Constantly weakening the product at lower levels will only filter into 'the top tier' eventually the current route is just delaying the inevitable.

[SteveLyric2]

14 hours ago, lisa-colette said:

Did really well at Poole when Plymouth were last down. 

....and you never know could be a replacement (6.93) for Rooboy???

[Falcon1983]

13 hours ago, The Dog said:

The problem I see with this is that half the riders would achieve an average that would keep them out of a team for the following year. 

I'd go the other way and increase the team average to 49 or 50 points. You'll never build to that number but riders could race without fear of being redundant afterwards... 

This is why averages to build teams should be abolished and replaced with categorized riders A B C, D, E plus the rising stars

 

[King Jamie]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:07 PM, wtf said:

I think the general reason for the playoffs isn't that the champions gates suffer towards the end of a dominant season, it's more that no one else has anything to race for. Wasn't it the 2011 Glasgow dominant season where they won the league early that started to trigger play offs?  not sure. But it's intention is so that another 3 or 5 clubs have something to race for towards the end of a season.

Whether you agree with it or not, I think that was the rational behind it

 

I do understand that but I can't help but feel the Promoters have kinda caused their own problems.

If you think back, each track had their 'base' crowd. The hardcore. The Mr Campbell's of this world could sit down each Nov / Dec and think, "right, we've x season ticket holders for next season. That's £y. Now, we can have a directors' meeting and decide who we want to sign and what contracts we should offer those riders."

Back then, the base crowd was larger than it is today. Now, I'm aware there are several reasons for this but I can't help but think that one of those is that the integrity of the sport remained intact. Every League meeting meant something in the grand scheme of things and the table toppers were crowned Champions. Even sides at the bottom didn't race in front of empty terraces.

Changing that mindset to allow a team below first to lift the trophy also changes the paying customers' philosophy towards the sport. Why buy a season ticket when only 2 or 3 fixtures truly matter? And instead of routinely turning up, some may now think, "hmm, Berwick this week. We usually beat them and we're almost certain of finishing in the top 6. I'll save my money and go to the important meeting next month instead."

Now, when that fan then repeats their thought process to their mate(s), they in turn then think, "och, Mike's not going on Friday, I'll probably give it a miss as well" and, before you know it, your floating punter numbers have nosedived.

Lower season ticket numbers also affects the thinking of Mr Campbell and his friends. "Our base budget is a lot lower for next season. I don't think we can afford Jock McTavish, which is probably just as well given the lower points limit. We can blame that if anyone asks."

This then leads to the floating punter thinking, "look at the points limit. How low can you go? What are they doing to the sport? I'm not going to watch rubbish. I want Jock McTavish back. At least he was top quality."

And so it goes on and on. Let's just hope it's not too late for some kind of salvage operation.

[wtf]

19 hours ago, King Jamie said:

I do understand that but I can't help but feel the Promoters have kinda caused their own problems.

If you think back, each track had their 'base' crowd. The hardcore. The Mr Campbell's of this world could sit down each Nov / Dec and think, "right, we've x season ticket holders for next season. That's £y. Now, we can have a directors' meeting and decide who we want to sign and what contracts we should offer those riders."

Back then, the base crowd was larger than it is today. Now, I'm aware there are several reasons for this but I can't help but think that one of those is that the integrity of the sport remained intact. Every League meeting meant something in the grand scheme of things and the table toppers were crowned Champions. Even sides at the bottom didn't race in front of empty terraces.

Changing that mindset to allow a team below first to lift the trophy also changes the paying customers' philosophy towards the sport. Why buy a season ticket when only 2 or 3 fixtures truly matter? And instead of routinely turning up, some may now think, "hmm, Berwick this week. We usually beat them and we're almost certain of finishing in the top 6. I'll save my money and go to the important meeting next month instead."

Now, when that fan then repeats their thought process to their mate(s), they in turn then think, "och, Mike's not going on Friday, I'll probably give it a miss as well" and, before you know it, your floating punter numbers have nosedived.

Lower season ticket numbers also affects the thinking of Mr Campbell and his friends. "Our base budget is a lot lower for next season. I don't think we can afford Jock McTavish, which is probably just as well given the lower points limit. We can blame that if anyone asks."

This then leads to the floating punter thinking, "look at the points limit. How low can you go? What are they doing to the sport? I'm not going to watch rubbish. I want Jock McTavish back. At least he was top quality."

And so it goes on and on. Let's just hope it's not too late for some kind of salvage operation.

I think your assessment is pretty accurate, and I think it's as much a statement on society and how mindsets have changed. People today seem to only respond to instant gratification and instant stimulation. Long gone are the days of supporters who would be there through thick and thin. It's to do with the gimmick mentality, the new era, call it what you like, there are so many things competing for our attention these days. You only have to look at a speedway crowd and they are watching a race, then looking at there phones, then watching a race etc. There's so much competition for our attention and our ££ and unfortunately speedway and it's promoters don't have the skillset or desire to keep up.

They chuck in the playoff hoping to attract new supporters forgetting what impact it will have on their hard core fans, much as you stated above. Now don't get me wrong, you can't keep all the people happy all the time. But to demonstrate the business acumen of our beloved speedway promoters, consider this:

We've had a pandemic for over 18 months changing the way we live, travel and socialise etc. During the height of the pandemic, some tried a streaming service a couple of times, then gave up. How do you get an ever aging fan base to watch and pay for speedway, how do you get away fans to watch speedway and not have to travel. The sport has been begging for clubs to add to their revenue by offering a streaming service, a centralised service, a season ticket holders service, just to allow say 500 fans from 300 miles away to watch their club and vice versa.

So in 18 months 12 of which were sat on their backsides, both Scottish clubs have demonstrated their business acumen, Redcar have stepped up and are doing the same. If I've missed any others out, I apologise, but they obviously haven't advertised/promoted  it well enough for me to notice (Poole once or twice maybe?). And that's it. 

My hat goes off to the promotions of Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Redcar. The rest? You deserve all you get

Here was the chance to centralise a scheme, offering season long passes for different leagues. How do I add a few hundred away supporters from Poole or Kent to my revenue in Glasgow or Edinburgh ?  Exactly! what about the reverse arrangement? 

People have changed, their attention spans have changed, the only constant is the leadership of the BSPL.  

[MartinBSN]

2 hours ago, wtf said:

I think your assessment is pretty accurate, and I think it's as much a statement on society and how mindsets have changed. People today seem to only respond to instant gratification and instant stimulation. Long gone are the days of supporters who would be there through thick and thin. It's to do with the gimmick mentality, the new era, call it what you like, there are so many things competing for our attention these days. You only have to look at a speedway crowd and they are watching a race, then looking at there phones, then watching a race etc. There's so much competition for our attention and our ££ and unfortunately speedway and it's promoters don't have the skillset or desire to keep up.

They chuck in the playoff hoping to attract new supporters forgetting what impact it will have on their hard core fans, much as you stated above. Now don't get me wrong, you can't keep all the people happy all the time. But to demonstrate the business acumen of our beloved speedway promoters, consider this:

We've had a pandemic for over 18 months changing the way we live, travel and socialise etc. During the height of the pandemic, some tried a streaming service a couple of times, then gave up. How do you get an ever aging fan base to watch and pay for speedway, how do you get away fans to watch speedway and not have to travel. The sport has been begging for clubs to add to their revenue by offering a streaming service, a centralised service, a season ticket holders service, just to allow say 500 fans from 300 miles away to watch their club and vice versa.

So in 18 months 12 of which were sat on their backsides, both Scottish clubs have demonstrated their business acumen, Redcar have stepped up and are doing the same. If I've missed any others out, I apologise, but they obviously haven't advertised/promoted  it well enough for me to notice (Poole once or twice maybe?). And that's it. 

My hat goes off to the promotions of Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Redcar. The rest? You deserve all you get

Here was the chance to centralise a scheme, offering season long passes for different leagues. How do I add a few hundred away supporters from Poole or Kent to my revenue in Glasgow or Edinburgh ?  Exactly! what about the reverse arrangement? 

People have changed, their attention spans have changed, the only constant is the leadership of the BSPL.  

The biggest problem with streaming is cost. Unless you have a very dedicated and knowledgable team of volunteers willing to run it for you then you're looking at £1500 minimum per meeting for a live stream. The revenue from that wouldn't change anything, not once other costs were taken into account