Jaizer Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, crescent girl said: Did nobody clock the crowds at Belle Vue and Peterboro last week? These massive roll-ups will have doubled, even trebled, the respective promotions' revenue over a regular meeting. Similarly, what about the huge interest in the soccer play-offs each year as clubs battle for promotion in their various leagues? Or the full-house attendances at ice-hockey play-offs at Nottingham every season? The revenue from being involved in play-offs is a massive boost to any club's financial year, and in some cases could make a difference between failing or surviving. Regardless of the "fairness" of it, they are here to stay, and the season-long league table is a qualification process, no more, no less. It is up to the promotions at every track to make their regular matches bright and entertaining enough to keep them close to their budget, while aiming for a shot at glory in the play-offs to put icing on the cake. Yes, speedway is a sport. It is also a business. Run a straightforward league with only one winner and see if you can stay in business. Money talks. You've just contradicted your own point. "Soccer" play offs in football league are for clubs 3rd to 6th!! You know what the team that win the league are called.... Champions!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jaizer said: You've just contradicted your own point. "Soccer" play offs in football league are for clubs 3rd to 6th!! You know what the team that win the league are called.... Champions!!! But it's the third promoter club that gets the biggest windfall thanks to the playoff route 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizer Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Marshall07 said: But it's the third promoter club that gets the biggest windfall thanks to the playoff route Take that up with Dick it's his point, I'm just pointing out the contradiction in his point. As I said before, I'd follow rugby league format. They have a league leaders shield gets awarded then the play offs have a grand final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jaizer said: Take that up with Dick it's his point, I'm just pointing out the contradiction in his point. As I said before, I'd follow rugby league format. They have a league leaders shield gets awarded then the play offs have a grand final. His point though is that instead of having the top 3 just promoted they create a playoff for the third place as it's a big money thing. I'm not sure if Poole, or any club, would care if they were given a shield for topping the league. They want to win the grand final Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crescent girl Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) Always happy to have a good discussion on here.... My point is that play-offs attract people to speedway, create considerable revenue and keep the sport viable. Regarding the "top team wins the title" argument, the rules are laid down before the season, so everyone knows what's what. Taking it a stage further, what about this past weekend? Are Poland the "real" World Champions, with Denmark on the silver medal? Or were those last two races not worth the admission, or TV money alone? Edited October 20, 2021 by crescent girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS50 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jaizer said: Take that up with Dick it's his point, I'm just pointing out the contradiction in his point. As I said before, I'd follow rugby league format. They have a league leaders shield gets awarded then the play offs have a grand final. Regarding rugby league. It's the winner of the grand final who is considered to have won the best prize. League leader's shield is considered second prize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizer Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, crescent girl said: Always happy to have a good discussion on here.... My point is that play-offs attract people to speedway, create considerable revenue and keep the sport viable. Regarding the "top team wins the title" argument, the rules are laid down before the season, so everyone knows what's what. Taking it a stage further, what about this past weekend? Are Poland the "real" World Champions, with Denmark on the silver medal? Or were those last two races not worth the admission, or TV money alone? Yes in my mind they are. Were significantly better over 2 days and for example could to lose it due to an engine failure at the gate. That's highly unfair IMO I understand the concept, but do the top 6 in the gp go into a head to head over who is world champ? Do mercedes and red bull have a race off in F1 to see whose world champions? It's an Americanism which may work in some instances but in Motorsport is something I wholeheartedly disagree with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jamie Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, crescent girl said: Did nobody clock the crowds at Belle Vue and Peterboro last week? These massive roll-ups will have doubled, even trebled, the respective promotions' revenue over a regular meeting. Similarly, what about the huge interest in the soccer play-offs each year as clubs battle for promotion in their various leagues? Or the full-house attendances at ice-hockey play-offs at Nottingham every season? The revenue from being involved in play-offs is a massive boost to any club's financial year, and in some cases could make a difference between failing or surviving. Regardless of the "fairness" of it, they are here to stay, and the season-long league table is a qualification process, no more, no less. It is up to the promotions at every track to make their regular matches bright and entertaining enough to keep them close to their budget, while aiming for a shot at glory in the play-offs to put icing on the cake. Yes, speedway is a sport. It is also a business. Run a straightforward league with only one winner and see if you can stay in business. Money talks. That's all well and good but take the example of the 2003 season... Edinburgh won their first ever title. We went top of the league at the end of August after a victory at Glasgow (sorry Weegies, I had to mention it!). The following Friday (5 Sept), we raced IoW (or PoS as I used to call them) at sunny Armadale and the place was packed. From that meeting on, 'til the season finale on 31 October, crowds were well above 'normal' levels. 9 meetings' worth of barely being able to move on the terraces. Compare that with your play-off scenario above. 2 home meetings. 3 in the Championship. And also add in the fact that you've diluted the League programme into qualifying skootaboots, it's hardly surprising the casual punter doesn't turn up 'til the 'business end' nowadays. It wouldn't surprise me if the play-offs actually cost clubs money every year which, in turn, leads to the dropping of standards across the board at all levels, which in turn leads to even lower crowd numbers, etc., etc. Poole Pirates - the people's Championship Champions 2021. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, King Jamie said: That's all well and good but take the example of the 2003 season... Edinburgh won their first ever title. We went top of the league at the end of August after a victory at Glasgow (sorry Weegies, I had to mention it!). The following Friday (5 Sept), we raced IoW (or PoS as I used to call them) at sunny Armadale and the place was packed. From that meeting on, 'til the season finale on 31 October, crowds were well above 'normal' levels. 9 meetings' worth of barely being able to move on the terraces. Compare that with your play-off scenario above. 2 home meetings. 3 in the Championship. And also add in the fact that you've diluted the League programme into qualifying skootaboots, it's hardly surprising the casual punter doesn't turn up 'til the 'business end' nowadays. It wouldn't surprise me if the play-offs actually cost clubs money every year which, in turn, leads to the dropping of standards across the board at all levels, which in turn leads to even lower crowd numbers, etc., etc. Poole Pirates - the people's Championship Champions 2021. I like it, not sure we have ever been described as the 'people's league champions' before though! Lol. But of a tongue twister too! Try saying it really fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 hours ago, ruffdiamond said: Why not have the play-offs at the start of the season, than have the league to see who should've won? Ooooh I like it! No stressin' about the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, King Jamie said: That's all well and good but take the example of the 2003 season... Edinburgh won their first ever title. We went top of the league at the end of August after a victory at Glasgow (sorry Weegies, I had to mention it!). The following Friday (5 Sept), we raced IoW (or PoS as I used to call them) at sunny Armadale and the place was packed. From that meeting on, 'til the season finale on 31 October, crowds were well above 'normal' levels. 9 meetings' worth of barely being able to move on the terraces. Compare that with your play-off scenario above. 2 home meetings. 3 in the Championship. And also add in the fact that you've diluted the League programme into qualifying skootaboots, it's hardly surprising the casual punter doesn't turn up 'til the 'business end' nowadays. It wouldn't surprise me if the play-offs actually cost clubs money every year which, in turn, leads to the dropping of standards across the board at all levels, which in turn leads to even lower crowd numbers, etc., etc. Poole Pirates - the people's Championship Champions 2021. I think the general reason for the playoffs isn't that the champions gates suffer towards the end of a dominant season, it's more that no one else has anything to race for. Wasn't it the 2011 Glasgow dominant season where they won the league early that started to trigger play offs? not sure. But it's intention is so that another 3 or 5 clubs have something to race for towards the end of a season. Whether you agree with it or not, I think that was the rational behind it Edited October 20, 2021 by wtf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazc Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 hours ago, lisa-colette said: I like it, not sure we have ever been described as the 'people's league champions' before though! Lol. But of a tongue twister too! Try saying it really fast Just remove the ''peoples'' part of the sentence and everyone's a winner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 Premiership 36 points team building with 1 x Rising Star Championship 30 point team building with 2 x Rising Stars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 I feel the Championship needs to be weaker, 1) to encourage the likes of Poole / Glasgow / Leicester to step up 2) to shorten the difference between Champ & NDL for riders trying to step up! At the moment riders can score maximums at NDL level but not score a point in the Champ! Makes it tough to know if you are good enough to step up! 3) if it makes the Champ a cheaper league to run - bonus! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanAndersen Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: I feel the Championship needs to be weaker, 1) to encourage the likes of Poole / Glasgow / Leicester to step up 2) to shorten the difference between Champ & NDL for riders trying to step up! At the moment riders can score maximums at NDL level but not score a point in the Champ! Makes it tough to know if you are good enough to step up! 3) if it makes the Champ a cheaper league to run - bonus! Disagree. British Speedway needs to make an effort to arrest the current decline. I don’t have the answer on how it is done but strengthening the top league has to be a better plan than running down the championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 11 hours ago, King Jamie said: That's all well and good but take the example of the 2003 season... Edinburgh won their first ever title. We went top of the league at the end of August after a victory at Glasgow (sorry Weegies, I had to mention it!). The following Friday (5 Sept), we raced IoW (or PoS as I used to call them) at sunny Armadale and the place was packed. From that meeting on, 'til the season finale on 31 October, crowds were well above 'normal' levels. 9 meetings' worth of barely being able to move on the terraces. Compare that with your play-off scenario above. 2 home meetings. 3 in the Championship. And also add in the fact that you've diluted the League programme into qualifying skootaboots, it's hardly surprising the casual punter doesn't turn up 'til the 'business end' nowadays. It wouldn't surprise me if the play-offs actually cost clubs money every year which, in turn, leads to the dropping of standards across the board at all levels, which in turn leads to even lower crowd numbers, etc., etc. Poole Pirates - the people's Championship Champions 2021. Much the same as when we last won the league in 2011 . Had it won by early August , then ran out of steam . Meanwhile Newport drafted in Doyle , Gjedde etc and steamrolled everyone . Had they play offs existed in 2011 , the title would have headed for South Wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds85 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, JanAndersen said: Disagree. British Speedway needs to make an effort to arrest the current decline. I don’t have the answer on how it is done but strengthening the top league has to be a better plan than running down the championship. British speedway desperately needs to get the likes of Thorsell, Lindgren, Zagar, Doyle, Milik back into the country... These are the types of riders the top league should have. Realistically we aren't gonna get Zmarzlik or Sayfutdinovs of the world... But a top league full of the names previously mentioned, would be really nice to see... Fricke, Lambert, Woffinden, Lebedevs... All these big names who are no more in this country... It's very sad to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, szkocjasid said: I feel the Championship needs to be weaker, 1) to encourage the likes of Poole / Glasgow / Leicester to step up 2) to shorten the difference between Champ & NDL for riders trying to step up! At the moment riders can score maximums at NDL level but not score a point in the Champ! Makes it tough to know if you are good enough to step up! 3) if it makes the Champ a cheaper league to run - bonus! They want Poole to step up, give them Weds nights!! Edited October 21, 2021 by lisa-colette 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, lisa-colette said: They want Poole to step up, give them Weds nights!! I can see this happening. Particularly if Brum fold. Would mean no Danes in the Poole team and possibly a couple of off night home matches against Dane heavy opponents but should be workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur54 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 12:15 AM, Trees said: No, we don't want Poole ..... Go on, will try to give the others a chance 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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