OveFundinFan Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ghostwalker said: Well what is the point of wild cards otherwise if you are just going to give them to riders placed 7,8,9,10,11,12,13 (depending one who qualified from the GP challenge)? I definitely think they should be more "wild" with their picks but perhaps be more committed to it and it and the riders 2-3 seasons to establish themselves in the SGP. Problem with giving riders 2-3 seasons ((and I can see your point) is that the end of year one, they stay, but for selectors to “go wild” and pick another three would mean three to go from the remaining twelve and be replaced by another three to be developed. You could end up with 6 riders you are hoping will develop and they may/or may not, and the series could be worse. Its tricky for the selectors, absolutely. Not being able to please all the people all of the time (or should it be hardly any people any time) Edited September 15, 2021 by OveFundinFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Top 15 riders in the world… end of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 35 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Top 15 riders in the world… end of Based on? If you think Polish league then that'd be a return for Kolodiez, Bjerre, P Pawlicki and N Pedersen. Nations/federations would never agree and I don't think the GPs ever intended to be the 'top' riders in the world. Maybe they should do that with other sporting events such as the Olympics, F1, Moto GP, Tennis and Golf majors..... oh no, they don't 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Top 15 riders in the world… end of If the wildcard picks go the way the hive mind on here seems to think (and I'm with the crowd here too) then we will be as close to the top 15 as we have ever been. 14 of the predicted riders are in the Polish Ekstraliga top 20 averages., only Freddie Lindgren is outside the top 20, but his GP form clearly justifies his inclusion. Of the 20 top riders in the Ekstraliga two are under 21 reserves who should be discounted because their averages are inflated. That leaves in order: Kolodziej, N Pedersen, J Holder and G Laguta as the only ones not likely to be in the GP series next year. I could make a claim for any of those four, but none would be overwhelming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, arnieg said: If the wildcard picks go the way the hive mind on here seems to think (and I'm with the crowd here too) then we will be as close to the top 15 as we have ever been. 14 of the predicted riders are in the Polish Ekstraliga top 20 averages., only Freddie Lindgren is outside the top 20, but his GP form clearly justifies his inclusion. Of the 20 top riders in the Ekstraliga two are under 21 reserves who should be discounted because their averages are inflated. That leaves in order: Kolodziej, N Pedersen, J Holder and G Laguta as the only ones not likely to be in the GP series next year. I could make a claim for any of those four, but none would be overwhelming. In all honesty I'd rather see Pedersen, Holder or Kubera in the series than Thomsen - but none have compelling arguments, and for varying reasons, I don't see any of them getting a pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) Baring in mind there wasnt even a qualifier for the original seies back in 1995, I dont think there has ever been a series where the majority of the best riders were not in it. Maybe 1999 Loram could have pushed TRik for the title but that aside theres never been anyone that obvious thats not been in the series. Just a few that slightly divided opinion. Edited September 22, 2021 by RPNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 8 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said: Based on? If you think Polish league then that'd be a return for Kolodiez, Bjerre, P Pawlicki and N Pedersen. Nations/federations would never agree and I don't think the GPs ever intended to be the 'top' riders in the world. Maybe they should do that with other sporting events such as the Olympics, F1, Moto GP, Tennis and Golf majors..... oh no, they don't Based on how good they are obviously… Kolodziej and Nicki Pedersen are both subjectively top 20 riders in the world, but Nicki has retired from the Grand Prix’s anyways, so is irrelevant, dont know why you’re mentioning Bjerre, he’s no where near, and isn’t on averages either, Piotr has also had a bad season and isn’t worthy atm. The gp’s were never intended to be the best 15 riders in the world? How? To find out who the world champion is, you need to have the best riders in the series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, RPNY said: Baring in mind there wasnt even a qualifier for the original seies back in 1995, I dont think there has ever been a series where the majority of the best riders were in it. Maybe 1999 Loram could have pushed TRik for the title but that aside theres never been anyone that obvious thats not been in the series. Just a few that slightly divided opinion. Emil Sayfutdinov Grigori Laguta in the early to mid 2010’s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, arnieg said: then we will be as close to the top 15 as we have ever been. Which is the goal (or SHOULD be the goal of) of the GP's... As I have stated repeatedly, the old World Final system was NEVER designed to include all the top riders, and that is what makes the GP's so much more "credible"... Plus, as much as we'd like to think so, domestic averages aren't quite as accurate as they would first appear. If they were, Eric Boocock and Phil Crump would have been multiple world champs... Edited September 15, 2021 by chunky 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 16 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Based on how good they are obviously… Kolodziej and Nicki Pedersen are both subjectively top 20 riders in the world, but Nicki has retired from the Grand Prix’s anyways, so is irrelevant, dont know why you’re mentioning Bjerre, he’s no where near, and isn’t on averages either, Piotr has also had a bad season and isn’t worthy atm. The gp’s were never intended to be the best 15 riders in the world? How? To find out who the world champion is, you need to have the best riders in the series. Perfect. Have you offered your services to the organisers because no-one else will be able to agree on that list. Subjectively, I'd say both are top 15. This is where I think some in speedway are deluded that any championship is about who is the best going into it. If that were the case then why not give the title to the person who you think is the best, no point racing for it surely because all the hard work has been done in proving to you that they are the best? To me, Thomsen and Kubera have both shown they are capable and have reached the final of a GP this year and both should be in it next year. As an example, without unpredictability or the ability to qualify the same year Britain would not have won the US Open women's tennis this year and Radecanu doesn't deserve it under your criteria as she isn't the best, nor in the top rankings within tennis. Numerous world champions across many sports over the years have not been 'ranked' as the best or in the top 15 in the world. I don't think the Speedway GP organisers have ever said they want the top 15 riders in the world in the series, their interest is commercial success. We will never agree clearly but as a spectacle the GPs this year to me are boring and every year there are too many of the same also rans and I'd prefer a bit more unpredictability, which I'm guessing I won't get from any response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 10 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said: Perfect. Have you offered your services to the organisers because no-one else will be able to agree on that list. Subjectively, I'd say both are top 15. This is where I think some in speedway are deluded that any championship is about who is the best going into it. If that were the case then why not give the title to the person who you think is the best, no point racing for it surely because all the hard work has been done in proving to you that they are the best? To me, Thomsen and Kubera have both shown they are capable and have reached the final of a GP this year and both should be in it next year. As an example, without unpredictability or the ability to qualify the same year Britain would not have won the US Open women's tennis this year and Radecanu doesn't deserve it under your criteria as she isn't the best, nor in the top rankings within tennis. Numerous world champions across many sports over the years have not been 'ranked' as the best or in the top 15 in the world. I don't think the Speedway GP organisers have ever said they want the top 15 riders in the world in the series, their interest is commercial success. We will never agree clearly but as a spectacle the GPs this year to me are boring and every year there are too many of the same also rans and I'd prefer a bit more unpredictability, which I'm guessing I won't get from any response Why would you want worse riders though? Just because a rider has finished say 10th in the series, I can virtually guarantee that whoever would come in to replace him would not achieve any higher than him, For example Vaculik, he is, in my opinion, a top 10 rider, and no one that is currently not in the series is better than him, or has shown that they are better than him? Kubera got to a final on his home track, that isn’t even a normal gp track, let’s see how he does in the SoN, and have another look, if he beats the danes and aussies and the others around NSS and Dauga, then maybe ur right, he should be in it, but in my opinion, domestically he’s not had a good season at all really, as it’s his first season in the top 5 in the Ekstraliga, 2/3 years time i’m sure he’ll be ready, but putting riders in at a young age can sometimes be a massive hinderance on their career, they have the u21 world championships, and then they improve, and go into the main championship if and when they’re ready 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Non GP riders who could be worth a wildcard would be, imo, J Holder, Pedersen (out of gp retirement), G Laguta (but he wouldn’t do it), Kolodziej (but is ageing and so wouldn’t get one, and wouldn’t really be worthy of one) and that, in my opinion, is it, So virtually, Jack Holder, and that is it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r8gdp Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Non GP riders who could be worth a wildcard would be, imo, J Holder, Pedersen (out of gp retirement), G Laguta (but he wouldn’t do it), Kolodziej (but is ageing and so wouldn’t get one, and wouldn’t really be worthy of one) and that, in my opinion, is it, So virtually, Jack Holder, and that is it In my opinion I don’t think j holder is ready yet I d pick niki p think he could hold his own and ruffle a few feathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbw Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, r8gdp said: In my opinion I don’t think j holder is ready yet I d pick niki p think he could hold his own and ruffle a few feathers Nicki P would not only hold his own he would hold others as well! I went to the Evening with Nicki P & Woffy on the eve of Cardiff a few years back........the action nearly got as firery off the track as on it! Edited September 17, 2021 by PirateShip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Pedersen for Thomsen and possibly J Holder for Fricke would be the only changes I would make to what will probably be the line up, but if it is the line up, it’ll be the closest it’s been to the top 15 in the world in a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Pedersen for Thomsen and possibly J Holder for Fricke would be the only changes I would make to what will probably be the line up, but if it is the line up, it’ll be the closest it’s been to the top 15 in the world in a long time Fricke is in it 100% in 2022- see the Challenge result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 9/17/2021 at 12:32 PM, racers and royals said: Fricke is in it 100% in 2022- see the Challenge result Yep… I knowWe’re discussing who could come in to make it stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 On 9/15/2021 at 1:13 PM, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Emil Sayfutdinov Grigori Laguta in the early to mid 2010’s Neither wanted to be in it tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Where was Jack Holder in the 2021 GP Challenge, was he entered, certainly not in the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severnsider Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 34 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said: Where was Jack Holder in the 2021 GP Challenge, was he entered, certainly not in the final. He went out in the previous round. Think it was Gorican round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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