No change next year?

[cowboy cookie returns?]

23 hours ago, Trees said:

Let's have some serious suggestions, forget "fun" speedway ala IOW, we can't have leagues of fun speedway.

Leagues of 'fun' speedway is what we have in the UK at present they are fun from professional.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

22 hours ago, Haza said:

Polish promoters don't have to try very hard to "promote", fans, riders and sponsors queue up to support the clubs, they don't even have to pay any rent as the stadiums are state owned!!

The thing is Poland has always been ran as a professional League. Therefore in Poland they have the credibility & a history of mass support that means that the both the local & national authorities take the sport seriously.

The Polish league you have today hasn't just happened.

All though the communist era the sport has attracted mass support not like over here with peaks and troughs. Attendance levels have been pretty static for decades. It's only in the last 15 to 20 years the big bucks have really come to the fore in Poland. 

To say the polish club owners had it easy is total rubbish. The truth is that Polish Speedway has has worked to continually have a product that attracts public affection therefore becomes a Huge part of the community & ultimately means that the big blue chip companies & TV stations are falling over themselves to become involved with it today.

The mess that British speedway finds its self in today has nothing to do with the top riders not riding here, the grand Prix or the Polish League.

It's totally to do with mismanagement by the authorities here. They even managed to smash the last golden egg that came their way though sky I suspect that will be the last such egg.

 

[Midland Red]

One thing Poland do right over the UK is run at the weekend. Think of all the Friday and Saturday night tracks we’ve lost or which don’t run on those nights - nights when attendances are likely to be higher.

Sadly, we all know the reasons why.
 

TV is the other thing which has decimated domestic racing over here. Why attend a meeting in the UK when there’s so much of it on the TV and on streaming, etc.

To see the World Champion ride back in the day, I had to go to the Brandon, when Norwich (Fundin) or Belle Vue (Craven) were riding. Other than those nights, I couldn’t see those stars ride. Nowadays, Zmarzlik, previously Woffinden, are never off the screen. 
 

Because none of the above, which I feel are major reasons for the decline in the UK,  can be overcome, I do fear for the future.

[Trees]

12 hours ago, Sir Sidney said:

Denigrating the IOW again. What have you got against them?

You completely miss the point of how they operate and why they are operating that way this year. Remember, they would have raced in the National League this year had not changes been imposed without consultation, and with no guarantee that the same wouldn't happen in the future.

I am a neutral supporter- I don't have a team to follow and so no axe to grind. I want to see British speedway flourish. 

IOW are putting on serious speedway. I'm not sure what you mean by 'fun speedway. However, they wrap that up in first class customer service and extra fan engagement.  Every other club could do the same. 

There must be tens of thousands of people like me who used to go, but have lost their track. IOW through its social media content attracted me to go, impress me when I attend, and keep me posted. I feel a part of their club. Kings Lynn , or any other club, could do the same, but they don't.  

But a few people seem to think it's the way forward, it is fun stuff, not serious league racing, no pressure on any rider, I just think it's not the way to go, maybe it's something that club promoters could add to their year tis true but not in replacement to league racing .....

[Trees]

5 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

The thing is Poland has always been ran as a professional League. Therefore in Poland they have the credibility & a history of mass support that means that the both the local & national authorities take the sport seriously.

The Polish league you have today hasn't just happened.

All though the communist era the sport has attracted mass support not like over here with peaks and troughs. Attendance levels have been pretty static for decades. It's only in the last 15 to 20 years the big bucks have really come to the fore in Poland. 

To say the polish club owners had it easy is total rubbish. The truth is that Polish Speedway has has worked to continually have a product that attracts public affection therefore becomes a Huge part of the community & ultimately means that the big blue chip companies & TV stations are falling over themselves to become involved with it today.

The mess that British speedway finds its self in today has nothing to do with the top riders not riding here, the grand Prix or the Polish League.

It's totally to do with mismanagement by the authorities here. They even managed to smash the last golden egg that came their way though sky I suspect that will be the last such egg.

 

Polish clubs have attracted big crowds, because their townsfolk, in fact the whole of Poland, are so passionate about their towns' and their country which is how it should be. No doubt they all suffered together like this country did during the wars, unfortunately for British speedway people have lost the passion and pride for their clubs and for many their country, their clubs have subsequently closed, sold off for big bucks by the owners. 

Are Polish stadiums owned by companies/individuals?

[cowboy cookie returns?]

8 hours ago, Trees said:

Polish clubs have attracted big crowds, because their townsfolk, in fact the whole of Poland, are so passionate about their towns' and their country which is how it should be. No doubt they all suffered together like this country did during the wars, unfortunately for British speedway people have lost the passion and pride for their clubs and for many their country, their clubs have subsequently closed, sold off for big bucks by the owners. 

Are Polish stadiums owned by companies/individuals?

You miss the point Polish speedway has always been ran as a proper professional team sport. Therefore has earned the respect and the passion of the town's people & the wider general polish population as well as big business.

The UK operating model deliveries the opposite. It doesn't have the respect outside of speedway circles the team structure here does the opposite of building a connection between a town & the local people.

The sport is now to fragile here to fight. Imagine trying to secure funding to build a stadium and the outline of your business plan for the build is it will be used by 1000 people a week for 12 weeks of the year we'll also generate zero revenue & coverage for the local area too.

The big issues the sport has is nothing new promoter infighting guests make it up as you go along rule book. Instead of doing something about it all that's ever happened is watering the product down hike up admission prices and introduce rules that further erode the sport.

I know you said elsewhere just enjoy the racing well I guess an ever decreasing number will take that advise while the vast majority stay home.

For me do something about the product to make it more exciting & bring a true team feel to it so there is some emotional attachment & I'll return failing that I'll keep the memories.

 

 

[M.D]

32 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

You miss the point Polish speedway has always been ran as a proper professional team sport. Therefore has earned the respect and the passion of the town's people & the wider general polish population as well as big business.

The UK operating model deliveries the opposite. It doesn't have the respect outside of speedway circles the team structure here does the opposite of building a connection between a town & the local people.

The sport is now to fragile here to fight. Imagine trying to secure funding to build a stadium and the outline of your business plan for the build is it will be used by 1000 people a week for 12 weeks of the year we'll also generate zero revenue & coverage for the local area too.

The big issues the sport has is nothing new promoter infighting guests make it up as you go along rule book. Instead of doing something about it all that's ever happened is watering the product down hike up admission prices and introduce rules that further erode the sport.

I know you said elsewhere just enjoy the racing well I guess an ever decreasing number will take that advise while the vast majority stay home.

For me do something about the product to make it more exciting & bring a true team feel to it so there is some emotional attachment & I'll return failing that I'll keep the memories.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you say here.

Trouble is the sport is in an awful state with teams full of individuals that ride for multiple clubs each week, no idenity for the fans or riders.

The only way I see this can change is to restructure the league system and stop a lot of the doubling up, I dont think it can stop fully, its always been with us to a lower extent.

This will mean that the top league needs a few more clubs and a lower league that is yes, watered down but cost effective.

Strip the league structure back to basics and start to put on more of a show and build from there..

[Trees]

26 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

You miss the point Polish speedway has always been ran as a proper professional team sport. Therefore has earned the respect and the passion of the town's people & the wider general polish population as well as big business.

The UK operating model deliveries the opposite. It doesn't have the respect outside of speedway circles the team structure here does the opposite of building a connection between a town & the local people.

The sport is now to fragile here to fight. Imagine trying to secure funding to build a stadium and the outline of your business plan for the build is it will be used by 1000 people a week for 12 weeks of the year we'll also generate zero revenue & coverage for the local area too.

The big issues the sport has is nothing new promoter infighting guests make it up as you go along rule book. Instead of doing something about it all that's ever happened is watering the product down hike up admission prices and introduce rules that further erode the sport.

I know you said elsewhere just enjoy the racing well I guess an ever decreasing number will take that advise while the vast majority stay home.

For me do something about the product to make it more exciting & bring a true team feel to it so there is some emotional attachment & I'll return failing that I'll keep the memories.

 

 

Teams over the years I've been attending have always been highly thought of locally, particularly if successful!  Certainly in Lynn's case anyway. Remember our successful Premier league days when the majority of the team lived with a local sponsor? When I first went in the 70s the team then had 3/4 local guys. I dunno where you're coming from in my experience. Of course if injuries hit or your team doesn't perform of course riders change.

I don't know the history of Polish speedway but I can see the mentality of Polish townsfolk now and I truly think it's their passion and pride in their town that keeps them attending, similar to football fans of many cities and towns here.  These clubs are lucky, open the doors and in they flood.

Going back to British speedway, yes there has been in fighting etc with our BSPL but I personally think it's because we have been struggling for fans, clubs, riders and sponsors overall for years. Had everything been hunky dory they wouldn't have had to try so hard to get an upper hand etc .....

[cowboy cookie returns?]

3 hours ago, Trees said:

Teams over the years I've been attending have always been highly thought of locally, particularly if successful!  Certainly in Lynn's case anyway. Remember our successful Premier league days when the majority of the team lived with a local sponsor? When I first went in the 70s the team then had 3/4 local guys. I dunno where you're coming from in my experience. Of course if injuries hit or your team doesn't perform of course riders change.

I don't know the history of Polish speedway but I can see the mentality of Polish townsfolk now and I truly think it's their passion and pride in their town that keeps them attending, similar to football fans of many cities and towns here.  These clubs are lucky, open the doors and in they flood.

Going back to British speedway, yes there has been in fighting etc with our BSPL but I personally think it's because we have been struggling for fans, clubs, riders and sponsors overall for years. Had everything been hunky dory they wouldn't have had to try so hard to get an upper hand etc .....

The infighting was happening back in the 70s & 80s when speedway attracted massive crowds.

With the poles they have always ran it properly with the good of the sport at the heart of everything they do.

The sport here since it's birth has always been ran where individual promotions try to out smart each other. The crowds were dropping before WW2 then after the war a massive boom as people wanted live entertainment. The bubble started to pop in the early 50s leading to the decline upto 65 when the BL was born. 

Then a period of 6 to 7 years when the sport was put first taking you to the early 70s boom however soon it was back to one upmanship and the decline that started in the mid 80s that led to the rapid decline you see today.

 

[Trees]

10 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

The infighting was happening back in the 70s & 80s when speedway attracted massive crowds.

With the poles they have always ran it properly with the good of the sport at the heart of everything they do.

The sport here since it's birth has always been ran where individual promotions try to out smart each other. The crowds were dropping before WW2 then after the war a massive boom as people wanted live entertainment. The bubble started to pop in the early 50s leading to the decline upto 65 when the BL was born. 

Then a period of 6 to 7 years when the sport was put first taking you to the early 70s boom however soon it was back to one upmanship and the decline that started in the mid 80s that led to the rapid decline you see today.

 

Going back to the Poles, they're very lucky that their "councils" and people have always supported the sport, if they had things against them that we do it might be a different story. Our promotions have had to fight for themselves to keep their clubs going to a certain extent. 

As crowds have fallen, riders have chosen not to race in the UK etc so their job has gotten even more difficult. They have always tried to keep teams even, unlike Poland! hence the need for the complicated rules, Poland have never needed such rules, it's a free for all over there apart from the Polish Under 21 rider rules? Their clubs have often done the dirty on the riders by not paying them of course, so it hasn't always been professional!

[stevehone]

On 9/13/2021 at 4:29 PM, Trees said:

What do you suggest then Haza?

a new song by Kings Lynn will get people flooding back

[Trees]

9 hours ago, stevehone said:

a new song by Kings Lynn will get people flooding back

Haha, if we could get a singer to include some speedway footage in a music video that might help, come on Sheeran, get it sorted 

[HackneyHawk]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:11 PM, Midland Red said:

TV is the other thing which has decimated domestic racing over here. Why attend a meeting in the UK when there’s so much of it on the TV and on streaming, etc.

To see the World Champion ride back in the day, I had to go to the Brandon, when Norwich (Fundin) or Belle Vue (Craven) were riding. Other than those nights, I couldn’t see those stars ride. Nowadays, Zmarzlik, previously Woffinden, are never off the screen. 

I must disagree with this.  Look at football, it's never off the telly and still gets good support.  Even lower leagues get much better support than Speedway.  Also other sports look at the Hundred in cricket etc etc.  If TV coverage were handled properly then it would entice people to support a team and go to a live meeting.

[cityrebel]

Do the BSPL really care what the punters think. I know it's old hat, but why don't they send out a questionnaire to find out why people have stopped going. What about us that still go. I know I'm losing more interest on a weekly basis, and I'm  finding more reasons not to go.

[Fromafar]

22 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Do the BSPL really care what the punters think. I know it's old hat, but why don't they send out a questionnaire to find out why people have stopped going. What about us that still go. I know I'm losing more interest on a weekly basis, and I'm  finding more reasons not to go.

No chance of a Questionaire as they won’t get the replies they want to here.Majority of fans have been questioning the league structure for the last 10-15 years.Many know just don’t bother attending anymore,I’m in the same boat as you regarding attending.

[OveFundinFan]

38 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Do the BSPL really care what the punters think. I know it's old hat, but why don't they send out a questionnaire to find out why people have stopped going. What about us that still go. I know I'm losing more interest on a weekly basis, and I'm  finding more reasons not to go.

How does BSPL send out a questionnaire if they don’t know where people who used to attend live?

[cityrebel]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

How does BSPL send out a questionnaire if they don’t know where people who used to attend live?

A digital one, via their website and media outlets?

[cityrebel]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

No chance of a Questionaire as they won’t get the replies they want to here.Majority of fans have been questioning the league structure for the last 10-15 years.Many know just don’t bother attending anymore,I’m in the same boat as you regarding attending.

Last Tuesday i was glad Kent was off, i went non league football instead. That would have been unthinkable pre Covid.

[M.D]

Something I think would be good for league meetings would be to have a guy to help with the running of a meeting out on track.

Along the lines of what Phil Morris does at GP level

Working with the ref, he would be responsible for the fast and smooth running of the meeting.

Getting riders up to tapes in time, when a re run is needed stopping too much time from riders fiddling around and getting them back to tapes in quick time for the re start.

Making sure that too much track doctoring is not going on from the home side between 4 heat breaks etc..

Just directing the meeting at track level to support the ref and making sure the meeting runs smoothly and quickly for the fans

Edited September 17, 2021 by M.D

[Grand Central]

24 minutes ago, M.D said:

Something I think would be good for league meetings would be to have a guy to help with the running of a meeting out on track.

Along the lines of what Phil Morris does at GP level

Working with the ref, he would be responsible for the fast and smooth running of the meeting.

Getting riders up to tapes in time, when a re run is needed stopping too much time from riders fiddling around and getting them back to tapes in quick time for the re start.

Making sure that too much track doctoring is not going on from the home side between 4 heat breaks etc..

Just directing the meeting at track level to support the ref and making sure the meeting runs smoothly and quickly for the fans

That's pretty much the job description of every Clerk of the Course, present at every meeting.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Grand Central