Electric Speedway

[iris123]

1 hour ago, bluebee said:

Indeed that is true. But will the eco zealots really convince us that the rate of climate change will require the suspension of democracy? If anything, I would think the pandemic has convinced most people that governmental control of the population is not something that we should accept without serious examination. and debate Can you see this country  acceptingresticting freedom of movement when the world's greatest polluters carry on as normal? 

Anyway, back to electric speedway bikes. Scalextric was never a consumer sport and never will be even if it is scaled up on motorbikes. We might have as e-scooter racing some day in supermarket car  parks across the country but I can't see it being a crowd puller on national scale - just something to attract the odd police presence in a rainbow paint job car.

It's not about being a crowd puller. I think the sport is in such a hole there isn't much chance of it finding a crowd puller. It is about surviving in the future. Emissions is just one problem that is on the agenda. And to most people it is the lesser problem. Noise is the big one if you want motorcycle sport in urban areas. If you are lucky to have a track in the middle of nowhere then good. But there is a major problem right there. That tracks way out don't attract many and have little chance to attract many. The bigger the population near a track the more chance you have to find fans and sponsors that are interested. Plus and a very important aspect mentioned by Vince, is that it opens up training opportunities which are needed

[bluebee]

I would not argue that humans do not impact on the climate but we must not be foolish enough to look at some of the so-called solutions as carbon neutral. Wind turbines for example  have a limited life span, require expensive  maintenance and their manufacture is  certainly not carbon neutral. They also work intermittently like solar and require large amounts of space. W

 

As for climate change that is not as simple as it is often presented. the biggest increase in temperature in the UK in recent times was in the 80's and early 90s. The increase appears to be slowing and that was the case well before the pandemic. In fact, there has not been noticeable changes due to less activity during the pandemic which may indicate that we have less impact that we appear to state,

hat has been clear is that the decrease in our carbon footprint as a nation has been largely been achieved by sending energy intensive processes like manufacturing abroad (just like our waste) to countries with lower environmental regulation. To put it crudely: 'we no longer crap in our own backyard but in somebody else's'.

My personal view is that we must travel in the right direction towards lesser emissions but not at the cost of the well- being of the population. A bigger killer in my lifetime has been poverty not climate change.

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, bluebee said:

I would not argue that humans do not impact on the climate but we must not be foolish enough to look at some of the so-called solutions as carbon neutral. Wind turbines for example  have a limited life span, require expensive  maintenance and their manufacture is  certainly not carbon neutral. They also work intermittently like solar and require large amounts of space.

Coal fired power stations also have a limited lifespan, require expensive maintenance and are certainly not carbon neutral. It also requires mining that's damaging to both the environment and human health. 

1 hour ago, bluebee said:

As for climate change that is not as simple as it is often presented. the biggest increase in temperature in the UK in recent times was in the 80's and early 90s. The increase appears to be slowing and that was the case well before the pandemic. In fact, there has not been noticeable changes due to less activity during the pandemic which may indicate that we have less impact that we appear to state,

I'm actually somewhat sceptical about global warming in the sense of its underlying causes, and don't particularly think it'll be the disaster it's made out to be, But that doesn't change the fact that burning fossil fuels also impacts local air quality, causes respiratory diseases, and that you can reduce the amount you're using in favour of cleaner energy sources and more efficient products. 

Few would pretend that wind or solar are the whole or even most of the answer, and I'd have long gone down the nuclear path for always-on energy production. But it can go some of the way, and I don't think it's completely impractical that speedway could go completely electric tomorrow and charge up its bikes from these sources. 

1 hour ago, bluebee said:

hat has been clear is that the decrease in our carbon footprint as a nation has been largely been achieved by sending energy intensive processes like manufacturing abroad (just like our waste) to countries with lower environmental regulation. To put it crudely: 'we no longer crap in our own backyard but in somebody else's'.

But you can argue that manufacturing would have moved abroad anyway, and at some point the environmental issues will hit China as well. I don't see that generating 25% of the UK's energy through wind and solar has caused anyone to be poorer, nor lowered environmental standards.

The elephant in the room is that purely electric cars are just not up to the job beyond driving around town, but hydrogen fuel cells may fill that gap is there's sufficient incentive for manufactures and the buying public. 

[iris123]

It's also not unreasonable to think that some of these sources of energy that are in their relative infancy won't be improved considerably. Just like the combustion engine has over the decades

But the fact is, even as it stands it is obvious that electric powered bikes would be perfectly able to do a speedway meeting, if they can do MotoX

[bluebee]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The elephant in the room is that purely electric cars are just not up to the job beyond driving around town, but hydrogen fuel cells may fill that gap is there's sufficient incentive for manufactures and the buying public.  

The elephant is the increased requirement on the National Grid which renewables will not meet. whatever the improvements in  the technology.  Not everything is scaleable or we would still have large ships driven by wind power.  Hydrogen is not that easy to manufacture. We can't go back to coal - it's too dirty. The only foreseeable answer is small scale reactors but the green lobby don't want that. They want us to reduce our carbon footprint. Think medieaval and you've got something close. As for manufacturing inevitable moving abroad why is that inevitable. The reason for its movement are: low taxes, lax regulatory regimes and of course lower energy costs. Cheap labour also helps but automation deals with that on the whole.  My point is that we need to think more seriously a and realistically bout energy production and not just think a  mass of turbines down the east coast (estimated at 25 miles deep to keep up with current demand)  is going to be the solution.

And I can't see electric bikes on shale. Why bother with the shale? It's dirty and dusty.

[bluebee]

Sorry must go now. Interesting debate and some could points made by you all. Hope the same level of rational debate can be held in more influential circles.

[Ray Stadia]

3 hours ago, iris123 said:

It's not about being a crowd puller. I think the sport is in such a hole there isn't much chance of it finding a crowd puller. It is about surviving in the future. Emissions is just one problem that is on the agenda. And to most people it is the lesser problem. Noise is the big one if you want motorcycle sport in urban areas. If you are lucky to have a track in the middle of nowhere then good. But there is a major problem right there. That tracks way out don't attract many and have little chance to attract many. The bigger the population near a track the more chance you have to find fans and sponsors that are interested. Plus and a very important aspect mentioned by Vince, is that it opens up training opportunities which are needed

With electric bikes, maybe there is an opportunity to have a temporary track, put into a football stadium, maybe with a non shale surface, but a surface that is rideable. When I say a temporary track, I mean a track that can be laid and removed in sections. I can hear the wags lining up to suggest a Scalextric track! It could be a serious thought?    

[iris123]

27 minutes ago, bluebee said:

The elephant is the increased requirement on the National Grid which renewables will not meet. whatever the improvements in  the technology.  Not everything is scaleable or we would still have large ships driven by wind power. 

https://news.trust.org/item/20201209130140-yjblo/

[iris123]

18 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

With electric bikes, maybe there is an opportunity to have a temporary track, put into a football stadium, maybe with a non shale surface, but a surface that is rideable. When I say a temporary track, I mean a track that can be laid and removed in sections. I can hear the wags lining up to suggest a Scalextric track! It could be a serious thought?    

Well Briggo was talking decades ago about finding a new surface that would prevent rain offs etc. Not happened so far. And my one meeting watching speedway on concrete was a bit of a disaster from a viewing and rider (so many injuries) perspective. But maybe they just need to have more practice and it would be a go-er

[Vince]

15 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

With electric bikes, maybe there is an opportunity to have a temporary track, put into a football stadium, maybe with a non shale surface, but a surface that is rideable. When I say a temporary track, I mean a track that can be laid and removed in sections. I can hear the wags lining up to suggest a Scalextric track! It could be a serious thought?    

I think with the noise issue dealt with you could easily match the tyres to the track and run on concrete or tarmac. So maybe large car parks or industrial sites, then you have urban all weather Speedway.

On the subject of a temporary track though I did know a chap some years ago who produced furniture and was convinced that with some research he could produce a foam Supercross track that could go into trailers and be transported from site to site. He had raced for years so was well aware of all the issues that spring to mind so maybe it is possible. Imagine a couple of artics turning up to a city centre park and unloading a track which had disappeared by midnight.

[iris123]

2 minutes ago, Vince said:

I think with the noise issue dealt with you could easily match the tyres to the track and run on concrete or tarmac. So maybe large car parks or industrial sites, then you have urban all weather Speedway.

On the subject of a temporary track though I did know a chap some years ago who produced furniture and was convinced that with some research he could produce a foam Supercross track that could go into trailers and be transported from site to site. He had raced for years so was well aware of all the issues that spring to mind so maybe it is possible. Imagine a couple of artics turning up to a city centre park and unloading a track which had disappeared by midnight.

Actually about a decade ago there was talk of doing an ice speedway meeting here with just that sort of concept. Laying down sections. The trouble was with the depth needed for the spikes, I think

[Ray Stadia]

7 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Well Briggo was talking decades ago about finding a new surface that would prevent rain offs etc. Not happened so far. And my one meeting watching speedway on concrete was a bit of a disaster from a viewing and rider (so many injuries) perspective. But maybe they just need to have more practice and it would be a go-er

Maybe a tarmac type surface would be more forgiving? 

[bluebee]

Thanks Iris. I think I'll file that picture along with the pictures I have of the Reading Racino or the jetpacks they said we would all have on Tomorrow's World

[OGT]

18 hours ago, Vince said:

Imagine a couple of artics turning up to a city centre park and unloading a track which had disappeared by midnight.

If they turned up in Brum, the track would disappear way before midnight.

[marko]

E Speedway is easy to simulate, just watch the speedway on TV with the sound on mute.

Speedway is essentially made up of three senses, visual, audio and smell, just taking one element out can affect the experience, take two out and its no longer what you call speedway.

[iris123]

3 hours ago, marko said:

E Speedway is easy to simulate, just watch the speedway on TV with the sound on mute.

 

Given some of the inane commentary and rider interviews, I often do  

The racing doesn't suddenly get better or worse. But I can listen to something a bit more interesting.

[waytogo28]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:00 PM, Vince said:

you could easily match the tyres to the track and run on concrete or tarmac.

Briggo has reported on Japanese "speedway" once or twice and a few of us have seen it. I loved it vastly more passing as very handiapped among 20 or so riders in a race. 600 cc singles on a much bigger concrete oval  ( Brooklands-ish ). Can't see the Uk rider putting up with the necessary rule structure. Admission less than 50p as all income is from betting! Cracking racing but 30 mins between races put me off going regularly  ( not a betting man ). But it can be done. Google - Autojo or watch on You Tube. Fast forward between the betting pauses.

[Vince]

11 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

Briggo has reported on Japanese "speedway" once or twice and a few of us have seen it. I loved it vastly more passing as very handiapped among 20 or so riders in a race. 600 cc singles on a much bigger concrete oval  ( Brooklands-ish ). Can't see the Uk rider putting up with the necessary rule structure. Admission less than 50p as all income is from betting! Cracking racing but 30 mins between races put me off going regularly  ( not a betting man ). But it can be done. Google - Autojo or watch on You Tube. Fast forward between the betting pauses.

I've only ever seen it in video (On any Sunday has a section about it) however they don't slide like our Speedway bikes do. It can be done though.

[Ray Stadia]

3 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

Briggo has reported on Japanese "speedway" once or twice and a few of us have seen it. I loved it vastly more passing as very handiapped among 20 or so riders in a race. 600 cc singles on a much bigger concrete oval  ( Brooklands-ish ). Can't see the Uk rider putting up with the necessary rule structure. Admission less than 50p as all income is from betting! Cracking racing but 30 mins between races put me off going regularly  ( not a betting man ). But it can be done. Google - Autojo or watch on You Tube. Fast forward between the betting pauses.

Auto-racing doesn't solve the noise and non-electric issues. The bikes I have seen are twins, similar to a Triumph twin. Whether the Japanese will adopt electric bikes for this activity, possibly! 

[enotian]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:00 PM, iris123 said:

Well Briggo was talking decades ago about finding a new surface that would prevent rain offs etc. Not happened so far. And my one meeting watching speedway on concrete was a bit of a disaster from a viewing and rider (so many injuries) perspective. But maybe they just need to have more practice and it would be a go-er

I was wondering about a recycled single use plastic track (that should get the environmentals juices flowing) if that's not a contradiction.

Think Lego.  Can't believe they've not tried it in Denmark. Maybe with a textured surface to allow more grip on the outside line.  Would you be able to slide a bike on such a surface, with no loose material? It would certainly be consistent and need limited in match maintenance. Could even have holes to allow drainage in the wet as long as it didn't compromise the strength.

Just like Lego you should be able to erect and dismantle as often as required.  And transportable without having to source shale. Just like erecting a concert stage, probably less complex without a lighting rig. Combined with noise friendly e-engines you could hold meetings in city centres no trouble. Think cricket grounds for the best shape.

Colourful to.  Imagine sponsors logo's on the racing surface not just the air fence. I guess it's just too expensive an experiment to happen. Or just not possible. 

It wouldn't be speedway as we know it, which should be noisy, smelly and dirty, but if environmentally friendly is the direction of travel why not go the full monty. Recycled tracks and battery powered bikes.....

Professor Brian Cox was on the radio yesterday and reckons the universe ends at some point anyway. In billions of years time.  The big rip apparently.  But I guess the end of the universe is a bit different to maintaining a planet that is habitable for a little while longer so there might be something in this environmentalism. Could be an opportunity to introduce a form of speedway to a whole new generation of environmentally friendly youngsters...   ...or do they not like competitive sport anyway?