Strongest second tier ever?

[Pinny]

I remember having a debate with BWitcher on here only a couple of years ago where he was trying to tell me that if you put the likes of Ricky Wells and Kyle Howarth in the second tier twenty years ago, they'd of been the top men. Lol.

As said, the second tier looks so strong now because any decent rider has given up on the UK and the top tier has to find its riders from somewhere. Both leagues are in a mess.

I think in the early 2000's there was EIGHTEEN teams in the Premier League. A Premier trophy group of 4/5, KO cup ties and a league match home and away vs each team. It was a rare occurrence to have a blank raceday throughout the season except for weather. It was an action packed season. You seen the top riders every week and it was nowhere near as common for riders to be missing.

The doubling up system was brought in where an Elite League club could use two Premier League riders to fill one position. It seemed to work pretty well for a while.

We have been through how great those days were so many times and no doubt will continue to do so. Sadly, the sport will never go back to those days. Its just dying a slow, painful death.

[mikebv]

8 hours ago, OML said:

Over the 13 heat format of the 70's opposing number 1's only met in heat 1. Now they meet in 1, 13 and usually 15 so it is much harder to get a 9 point average now than it was then. Also, bonus points counted in the averages then but don't now.

And no fixed gate positions either, meaning a No1 could choose the best of the two available to his team if he wanted to...

And (usually), only 4 races a night, unless getting put in an "easy" race as a Tac Sub against a second string and a reserve..

Edited September 6, 2021 by mikebv

[OGT]

18 hours ago, Endeavour said:

Previously unheard of a rider being number 1 for his team in both leagues.

*Coughs*

Andy Grahame, Birmingham and Milton Keynes. 1979.

 

[IainB]

I do think that we have to remember Covid has played a massive part in team make ups this season, there are a lot of foreign riders (non GP) that just aren't riding in our leagues this season because of travel difficulties, especially at the time when teams were assembled. Also the Poland 2 leagues only rule has had an effect, whether this was brought in due to Covid or self interest I'm not sure, now it's in place though will it change? Some riders, the more professional ones, have been able to work around these restrictions and carry on as usual. Doubling down has enabled many clubs to run this year... but may also have closed at least one of them.

Edited September 6, 2021 by iainb

[Paulco]

20 hours ago, Endeavour said:

I would venture that some people think that second tier is strong because top tier standard is so poor. Previously unheard of a rider being number 1 for his team in both leagues.

There lies the problem . We've had a much stronger second tier in the past.  Blimey in 2004 my team had Parker , Stancl,  Grieves and Bentley and finished 11th . 

It's the weakness of the top flight that gives the impression that the second tier is too strong 

[Pinny]

5 minutes ago, Paulco said:

There lies the problem . We've had a much stronger second tier in the past.  Blimey in 2004 my team had Parker , Stancl,  Grieves and Bentley and finished 11th . 

It's the weakness of the top flight that gives the impression that the second tier is too strong 

Same as quite a few teams too, remember Trelawny with Harris, Zagar , Sanchez, Masters , we had Iversen, Watson, Smart, Atkin , god compare that with what you get now. 
 

As said many times, the watering down of the leagues has seen the crowds drop at the same rate. 

[cityrebel]

I wouldn't say the strongest, but probably the most expensive.

[Fromafar]

36 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

I wouldn't say the strongest, but probably the most expensive.

Agree, sooner or later the riders are going to have to wake up.

[M.D]

12 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Agree, sooner or later the riders are going to have to wake up.

Or be told to wake up

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

Bring back the early 2000’s era

[M.D]

Just now, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

Bring back the early 2000’s era

Create a new modern era..

[Owenbros]

Without a doubt the Polish restrictions on how many countries you can compete in and the money they can pay the riders has had an impact on British Speedway. It would be interesting to see how many riders would come back to the Premiership if Poland lifted their restrictions.

 

[emilali]

5 hours ago, Owenbros said:

Without a doubt the Polish restrictions on how many countries you can compete in and the money they can pay the riders has had an impact on British Speedway. It would be interesting to see how many riders would come back to the Premiership if Poland lifted their restrictions.

 

Poland only imposed these restrictions this season. Speedway in the UK has been dying a slow painful death for years. Nothing to do with the Polish restrictions in my opinion, all to do with mainly greedy promotions ripping off the punters over a period of years. 

[mikebv]

3 minutes ago, emilali said:

Poland only imposed these restrictions this season. Speedway in the UK has been dying a slow painful death for years. Nothing to do with the Polish restrictions in my opinion, all to do with mainly greedy promotions ripping off the punters over a period of years. 

I think the reality lies somewhere in the middle...

When riders can only ride in their own country, (due to the rules imposed to get a licence), Poland, and one other, it will make it difficult...

As all the riders that this will apply to are the "second and third level" riders rather than the top ones who can only ride in one league outside Poland, (with only Dan Bewley and Jack Holder the only ones choosing the UK), it means exactly the calibre of rider needed (and equally the ones who are affordable), are the ones that the UK are missing out on....

Many Swedes will choose Denmark as their third league, and vice versa, with many of the Northern European riders of France and Germany also doing the same...

There is no doubt though that even with the issues that exist out of their control, much of the current malaise is very much self inflicted....

[Fromafar]

24 minutes ago, emilali said:

Poland only imposed these restrictions this season. Speedway in the UK has been dying a slow painful death for years. Nothing to do with the Polish restrictions in my opinion, all to do with mainly greedy promotions ripping off the punters over a period of years. 

Agree,the best riders were long gone before any Polish restrictions.We have just not responded and took measures to improve our product.Just expecting the punters to roll up.

[emilali]

18 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Agree,the best riders were long gone before any Polish restrictions.We have just not responded and took measures to improve our product.Just expecting the punters to roll up.

100%. 

[emilali]

31 minutes ago, mikebv said:

I think the reality lies somewhere in the middle...

When riders can only ride in their own country, (due to the rules imposed to get a licence), Poland, and one other, it will make it difficult...

As all the riders that this will apply to are the "second and third level" riders rather than the top ones who can only ride in one league outside Poland, (with only Dan Bewley and Jack Holder the only ones choosing the UK), it means exactly the calibre of rider needed (and equally the ones who are affordable), are the ones that the UK are missing out on....

Many Swedes will choose Denmark as their third league, and vice versa, with many of the Northern European riders of France and Germany also doing the same...

There is no doubt though that even with the issues that exist out of their control, much of the current malaise is very much self inflicted....

I agree with the basis of what you are saying, however, as I said above the whole being limited to a certain amount of leagues has only came about this season. The top riders haven’t ridden over here for quite a number of years now so surely you have to ask why that was. Again, I think the fault lays firmly at the door of the numerous cowboy promotions we’ve seen here over the last 20 years.

[mikebv]

13 minutes ago, emilali said:

I agree with the basis of what you are saying, however, as I said above the whole being limited to a certain amount of leagues has only came about this season. The top riders haven’t ridden over here for quite a number of years now so surely you have to ask why that was. Again, I think the fault lays firmly at the door of the numerous cowboy promotions we’ve seen here over the last 20 years.

The main reasons the top guys no longer ride over here are several fold I would say...

The Sky money, which went a long way in paying the No1 dried up...

And Poland started paying multi hundred thousand euro contracts which meant riders could put their feet up for most of every week and not be required to spend hours at airports and in hotels flying back and too to the UK..

And then the GP's extended in number, and the SEC became worth taking part in, meaning that riders could have most of the week to prepare for them (after they had rode in Sweden on the Tuesday).. And, given there isn't a huge amount of prize money in the GP or SEC, you can only presume that the worldwide coverage provides their sponsors with enough of a profile to keep pumping in money to the riders...

I am not sure Promoters are 'cowboys' to be honest, but more likely just not capable of running the sport..

eg When they should have cut adrift the GP riders and made their own destiny, they instead changed race nights, moved around fixtures ad  nauseum to accomodate them, and ran Guestfest after Guestfest without them when eventtally they simply had to run to fit meetings in..

Crowds were dwindling whilst the top stars were here so to keep paying out massive money to them was pure folly....

[Robinh88]

I feel this year has been the strongest season for a few years. Stronger than 20 years ago….. probably not using Glasgow again for e.g in 2002 finishing bottom (I think), with a top 3 of Stancl Grieves and Powell.

Do also agree with the comment about it being the most expensive.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Robinh88

[Fromafar]

25 minutes ago, mikebv said:

The main reasons the top guys no longer ride over here are several fold I would say...

The Sky money, which went a long way in paying the No1 dried up...

And Poland started paying multi hundred thousand euro contracts which meant riders could put their feet up for most of every week and not be required to spend hours at airports and in hotels flying back and too to the UK..

And then the GP's extended in number, and the SEC became worth taking part in, meaning that riders could have most of the week to prepare for them (after they had rode in Sweden on the Tuesday).. And, given there isn't a huge amount of prize money in the GP or SEC, you can only presume that the worldwide coverage provides their sponsors with enough of a profile to keep pumping in money to the riders...

I am not sure Promoters are 'cowboys' to be honest, but more likely just not capable of running the sport..

eg When they should have cut adrift the GP riders and made their own destiny, they instead changed race nights, moved around fixtures ad  nauseum to accomodate them, and ran Guestfest after Guestfest without them when eventtally they simply had to run to fit meetings in..

Crowds were dwindling whilst the top stars were here so to keep paying out massive money to them was pure folly....

100% regarding the GP  riders.