Strongest second tier ever?

[ruckerroo]

When you look at it with an open mind, no allegiance to any club, i cant recall a stronger 2nd  division, admittedly it is made up of some journeymen who prob wont be about by 2022.

However is it just a bit too strong ?  Its taken eastbourne by admittedly bad management , it looks to have taken newcastle and might do for birmingham as well. 

Teams with packets of money even seem to be struggling to find personnel to compete .

Is this the new fist div in essence?

[Bagpuss]

Definitely too strong, I know our top league is weaker than it's ever been but you've got riders in the Championship who definitely shouldn't be and must be earning big money which is reflected in the admission price which is too high in both leagues. British speedway needs a serious restructure or it will eventually disappear up it's own rear end, we need either two distinct divisions or one big one and a proper thriving third tier for training youngsters. The problem is most riders in British speedway are now accustomed to doubling up and the riches that it provides and would be resistant to change I suspect. 

Needs somebody stronger than Mr Godfrey to sort the whole mess out.

[Fromafar]

59 minutes ago, ruckerroo said:

When you look at it with an open mind, no allegiance to any club, i cant recall a stronger 2nd  division, admittedly it is made up of some journeymen who prob wont be about by 2022.

However is it just a bit too strong ?  Its taken eastbourne by admittedly bad management , it looks to have taken newcastle and might do for birmingham as well. 

Teams with packets of money even seem to be struggling to find personnel to compete .

Is this the new fist div in essence?

Can’t agree,the standard of the sport in GB has dropped significantly in the last10-15 years even in this division(whatever you want to call it now).

[emilali]

1 hour ago, ruckerroo said:

When you look at it with an open mind, no allegiance to any club, i cant recall a stronger 2nd  division, admittedly it is made up of some journeymen who prob wont be about by 2022.

However is it just a bit too strong ?  Its taken eastbourne by admittedly bad management , it looks to have taken newcastle and might do for birmingham as well. 

Teams with packets of money even seem to be struggling to find personnel to compete .

Is this the new fist div in essence?

Would wholeheartedly disagree with this. The second tier isn't a patch on what it’s been in the past. Granted the top league isn’t even worth talking about which probably makes the second tier appear stronger but for me personally its extremely poor. 

[scoobydoo]

Peterborough at present have Ostergaard out injured and tomorrow all 6 premiership sides are racing  , Peterborough then can obviously book a guest from the championship only , who from the riders available to them that dont currently ride in the premiership would be able to guest and would actually do a job for the Panthers ,  

 

[arnieg]

28 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Can’t agree,the standard of the sport in GB has dropped significantly in the last10-15 years even in this division(whatever you want to call it now).

Seconded. Don't forget in 90s we had GP standard riders in the second tier (Stoney & Stekkers- and that's just at Long Eaton)

[25yearfan]

Needs to go to 2 senior Leagues next season!

 

Top flight of up to 12 teams or 13 if Swindon return. The League of a similar standard to the current Championship. KO cup and 4 team tournament qualifying rounds so teams have a minimum of 13 home meetings. No set racenights or doubling up apart from lower end riders. 2 rising star British riders at reserve.

 

2nd Division with the rest, plus any new tracks, (Oxford, IoW, Eastbourne, Workington?) and current NL teams that wish to continue at a standard higher than the current NL. Riders who averaged 6 or above in the higher Leagues this season are ineligible unless they have no higher League place. Teams allowed 2 commonwealth riders but no non overseas foriegners allowed.

 

Below this  2 junior four person team Leagues, North and South for clubs that wish to enter a team including teams representing defunct tracks if fans wish to run them and subsidise them at a nearby track -As in the cases of the trackless Middlesbrough junior team of the early 00's and the 3rd Division trackless Rye House team from 1999 these projects can lead to more tracks being built or reopened. Riders who averaged 6 or above in this years NL are ineligible regardless of whether they have a team place in the 2nd Division. The respective Midland development and Northern junior Leagues were functioning just fine until the BSPL in their wisdom decided to muscle in and create the Premier junior League of which we've seen ONE match all season.

  

Edited September 5, 2021 by 25yearfan

[Endeavour]

1 hour ago, emilali said:

Would wholeheartedly disagree with this. The second tier isn't a patch on what it’s been in the past. Granted the top league isn’t even worth talking about which probably makes the second tier appear stronger but for me personally its extremely poor. 

I would venture that some people think that second tier is strong because top tier standard is so poor. Previously unheard of a rider being number 1 for his team in both leagues.

[Pinny]

The top tier has seen any decent foreigner as well as our top two riders leave , so rather than our second tier being really strong its more a case of the top tier getting weak. 
 

I have said before and will say it again, the old school Premier league was a much better product than the second tier now. Much better and quality of riders much better too

[Jaizer]

I'd say the era with stoney, Sean Wilson, Dave mullet, Peter Carr, Les and Neil Collins, Kenny mckinna, James Grieves, Craig Watson etc would be stronger than now. Every team pretty much had an out and out number 1 some of racing was magic

[Pinny]

3 minutes ago, Jaizer said:

I'd say the era with stoney, Sean Wilson, Dave mullet, Peter Carr, Les and Neil Collins, Kenny mckinna, James Grieves, Craig Watson etc would be stronger than now. Every team pretty much had an out and out number 1 some of racing was magic

Agreed. You had the likes of Gjedde and NKI riding as second or third heatleaders in the premier whilst winning world cup medals , it was a superb product. 

 

[Jaizer]

2 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Agreed. You had the likes of Gjedde and NKI riding as second or third heatleaders in the premier whilst winning world cup medals , it was a superb product. 

 

Had genuine entertainers like rubber man Frank smart and jesper Olsen, pantomime villains like Robert Eriksson and Nikki P, and some characters. Professionalism has taken so much of that away

[JanAndersen]

1 hour ago, Jaizer said:

I'd say the era with stoney, Sean Wilson, Dave mullet, Peter Carr, Les and Neil Collins, Kenny mckinna, James Grieves, Craig Watson etc would be stronger than now. Every team pretty much had an out and out number 1 some of racing was magic

Absolutely this 

[mikebv]

It appears strong because it's full of Div One heat leaders..

However, a lot of these Div One heat leaders would have been at second string level 20 or so years ago in the top division as to be a heat leader then meant either you were a GP rider or an International riding in the World Team Cup or in Test Matches..

[Endeavour]

28 minutes ago, mikebv said:

It appears strong because it's full of Div One heat leaders..

However, a lot of these Div One heat leaders would have been at second string level 20 or so years ago in the top division as to be a heat leader then meant either you were a GP rider or an International riding in the World Team Cup or in Test Matches..

Exactly - look at the quality of riders in the BLRC at Hyde Road.

Nowadays you could have up to 3 riders from each team in such an individual meeting.

[szkocjasid]

The Champ feels strong because clubs can have 3 x Prem heat leaders in their side! But with a stronger top division these riders wouldn't be Prem heat leaders & the Champ wouldn't look so strong!

Edited September 6, 2021 by szkocjasid

[SteveLyric2]

The stature of the riders makes very little difference to the standard of racing. You only have to look at the last SGP!!

[redlead]

In the 70's the top 20 riders averaged 9 or over. Today there are one or two riders who average over 9. With only about 3 riders riding Prem League exclusively, the general standard of both leagues is poor by past standards. In the 70's a heat leader in the 2nd division would be a reserve in the 1st div, today there is very little or no difference between the 2 leagues. So I think the standard in the 2nd tier, is poor by past standards.  However just because the standard is lower, it doesn't mean the racing is poorer. At Redcar we see great racing every meeting.

[OML]

1 hour ago, redlead said:

In the 70's the top 20 riders averaged 9 or over. Today there are one or two riders who average over 9. With only about 3 riders riding Prem League exclusively, the general standard of both leagues is poor by past standards. In the 70's a heat leader in the 2nd division would be a reserve in the 1st div, today there is very little or no difference between the 2 leagues. So I think the standard in the 2nd tier, is poor by past standards.  However just because the standard is lower, it doesn't mean the racing is poorer. At Redcar we see great racing every meeting.

Over the 13 heat format of the 70's opposing number 1's only met in heat 1. Now they meet in 1, 13 and usually 15 so it is much harder to get a 9 point average now than it was then. Also, bonus points counted in the averages then but don't now.

[waiheke1]

6 hours ago, redlead said:

In the 70's the top 20 riders averaged 9 or over. Today there are one or two riders who average over 9. With only about 3 riders riding Prem League exclusively, the general standard of both leagues is poor by past standards. In the 70's a heat leader in the 2nd division would be a reserve in the 1st div, today there is very little or no difference between the 2 leagues. So I think the standard in the 2nd tier, is poor by past standards.  However just because the standard is lower, it doesn't mean the racing is poorer. At Redcar we see great racing every meeting.

PLEASE don't use averages that way to indicate the strength or weakness of the league. What the top riders in a league average is irrelevant to the strength of a league - though if anything high averages of the top riders may equate to lower strenghth in depth, though as the post above points out, race format and other factors need to be tsken into account.

Doubling up also tells us nothing about the standard, other than that the gap betwewn the two leagues  has reduced.

Relative to world standards I'd agree the quality of both leagues has dropped, and also agree with your assertion that the racing quality can be just as good.