Is Emil Right In What He Says?

[chunky]

18 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

Yeah...

I'd make 'em go over the fences too...

[r8gdp]

5 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

Seem to remember woffy mentioning something like this a few years ago .

[OveFundinFan]

5 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

I would go along with that.  It sounds sensible to try to get to equalisation in what would be a fairly easy way to be done.

[FAST GATER]

It is also true that even if you have loads of power  rider still needs to know how to use it and often there has to be  compromise for starting or flat out speed .I hate the term throttle Jockey because no matter what level of rider we are talking about a certain amount of skill and a huge amount nerve is required to ride a s/way bike flat out .

At this moment it time the greatest exponent of this is Zmarzlik ,  as to handicapping IMO it is not his fault he weighs about 6 stone soaking  wet .

Edited September 3, 2021 by FAST GATER

[RS50]

9 hours ago, chunky said:

Yeah...

I'd make 'em go over the fences too...

And use whips?

[Pinny]

Same engines for everyone would be the way to go but I am sure even if that was done , there would be ways around it. 
 

sadly in motorsport a lot of the time, well infact nearly always, the boys with the top kit come out on top. Look at Mercedes in the f1, the motogps, speedway over the years as well. There was a stage when even Rickardssons bikes looked massively faster than anothers bikes in the GPs. 

[waiheke1]

3 hours ago, Pinny said:

There was a stage when even Rickardssons bikes looked massively faster than anothers bikes in the GPs. 

Egon Mueller in 83 was MASSIVELY quicker than anyone else. Gundersen and Nielsen always appeared to have the quickest bikes in their era of dominance.

Was there ever a year in which the world champion didn't have bikes as quick, or quicker, than anyone else?

[Pinny]

5 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Egon Mueller in 83 was MASSIVELY quicker than anyone else. Gundersen and Nielsen always appeared to have the quickest bikes in their era of dominance.

Was there ever a year in which the world champion didn't have bikes as quick, or quicker, than anyone else?

Actually though Nicki Pedersens first world title and Crumps first one or two they didn’t necessarily look miles quicker than anyone else and was more down to track craft. 
 

For what its worth, I think Rickardsson had brilliant track craft and is the best rider i have been by a long way since 1998 but there was one year which i forget where he looked like his bikes were 700 ccs!

[marko]

In the grand prixs money will always talk and Bartosz is small in stature he will always be quick but that does not always translate as a bit of weight could mean better grip off the start?

Domestically something has to be done to reduce costs to the riders, no one can afford to pay them the sort of money they would like to be earning, so the only other way is to work it so that a riders outgoings are less, thus they can keep more of what they earn without it being ploughed so heavily back into their equipment.

Until speedway is made more viable to both, riders, promoters and fans, things will continue on a downward trend, it really is that simple.

[LesR]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:47 AM, steve roberts said:

...there may be also some inner psychology at play in that some riders 'believe' that one bike/engine is better than their other?

In 2 valve days, as a Jawa factory rider, Ivan Mauger would visit the factory and have tested many new engines on the dyno. He would then pick, for his allocation, the best engines for himself, this gave him a better starting point for tuning than having the less powerful engines. Mind you having Guy Allott as the tuner helped a lot. I can remember seeing the rockers on Ivan engines being on needle rollers, instead of the bronze bushes they used in the factory, much smoother operation.

So even standard engines, straight from the factory, are not equal.

Edited September 4, 2021 by LesR
additional text

[LesR]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:34 AM, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

I think that may work to a degree John, as in FIM events bikes have to weigh a minimum amount, many a long track rider has had to add weigth to his machine to conform to the regs. The riders would still spend out on tuning, because tuning is not just about saving weight, but also a lot of work goes into flowing the head and compression chamber, which is quite expensive.

[jenga]

its just like cars on the assembly lines in the60s/70s/80s . if you were lucky enough to get a car that was built from tuesday to thursday it would be a good un . 

mondays and fridays were the worst days that a car was built  .

WHY . well fridays the assembly guys were looking forward to the weekend and had other things on their minds , mondays they all came back to work with hand overs and had no idea what they were supposed to do .   

NOW if a person had had a fall out with the management or something and was working his notice . you would often get a noise in the car when turning corners . this was traced to dash board rail .

workers would put a small ball bearing in this rail and every time the car. turned a corner the ball bearing ran in the rail from one side to the other  .

ya dont get that now because they have plastic/moulded dashboards .  

same with engines and other stuff !

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruiser]

Do people really think Ivan Mauger had the same engine parts as everybody else on the market….it’s been going on for years …

[Fromafar]

10 minutes ago, Bruiser said:

Do people really think Ivan Mauger had the same engine parts as everybody else on the market….it’s been going on for years …

Plenty riders have the top notch machinery,but you have to have the skills to match.

[Bruiser]

15 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Plenty riders have the top notch machinery,but you have to have the skills to match.

Too true

[Triple.H.]

On 9/4/2021 at 10:17 AM, LesR said:

I think that may work to a degree John, as in FIM events bikes have to weigh a minimum amount, many a long track rider has had to add weigth to his machine to conform to the regs. The riders would still spend out on tuning, because tuning is not just about saving weight, but also a lot of work goes into flowing the head and compression chamber, which is quite expensive.

I think what Johnny the spud means is they make it that rider and bike need to be a minimum weight, so most lightweight riders would be brought back onto a more level playing field

Apologies to Mr Ellis in advance if i've grabbed the wrong end of the stick

[waytogo28]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:10 AM, jenga said:

the end of season AGM will be a proper comedy of errors  and where most of clubs will bail out of speedway .     RIP British speedway

Can't argue with that J. Except that you can be sure that they won,t come up with anything that will improve the quality of racing and pull in new fans. It's always a Time to Tinker event until , as you say they see how few sit at the table.