mikebv Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, cityrebel said: If next season remains the same as this, more track closures will be inevitable. Maybe the survival of the fittest, is the master plan. To be honest I never saw any problem with that when there were simply too many clubs... Instead, at that time, this natural evolutionary process that strengthens any species or entity, was completely ignored and everything was done to keep everyone going, no matter the impact to entertainment level, and league credibility. .. Now it's very much a different time and clubs are being removed from the UK map at an alarming rate, therefore all Promoters need to work together and support their "weakest links"... As without them all inevitably will end up disappearing too.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: Not sure who you think will want to move ‘ up ‘ when the likes of Poole only just came ‘ down ‘. Those clubs currently in the championship are there because that’s where they want to be, they won’t move ‘ up ‘ and won’t want a much weakened product although getting rid of the likes of Nicholls, Harris, Andersen , Masters, Morris, etc is a must and will save the clubs a lot on wages. So no one moves up? do away with the "Top League" and everyone comes "Down" and the NDL is run with the "second/junior teams of clubs only who can afford them" which leaves Mildenhall out on a limb a bit but bear with me... if the Monday and Thursday rule is stuck to for TV revenue then the clubs who may have genuine reasons for not running on those days are Newcastle; Kent and possibly Birmingham and the perceived (other) "Hard Up" clubs like Berwick and Scunthorpe (maybe wide of the mark with these comments but again bear with me) and maybe bring back Eastie and the IOW or even Oxford till they find their feet which gives 8/9 clubs in a mid way Secondary League and state to these clubs they can not utilise a rider with a 7 point average or more in the newly formed British Primary League it will save on costs; no temptation to go and get a perceived "top league" star on a ridiculous rate and no caps on riders wags who feel they might be worth more than they actually are; the market will dictate what they are worth to clubs. If there are no brakes applied (pardon the analogy) then this run away wage chase will never stop. Promotions cant be trusted to stick to wage caps that's been proven more than once in the past so take the temptation away... likewise to strengthen the Primary League no one without an average of 6 or more in the Secondary League can move up (So 6 moving up divided by 1.5) can race in the Primary League which means the lowest average a rider you could have in the Primary League is 4 and for the Tertiary League (or NDL) no one can not move up to the Secondary League until they have achieved an average of 6 in the NDL (So 6 moving up divide by 2) giving a starting average of 2 for the Secondary League. Build to say 45 in the Primary League 35 in the Secondary League and 30 in the Tertiary (NDL) to again restrict teams with unreasonable or unfeasible team building ambitions and this will potentially give 11/12 teams for a Primary League 8/9 teams for a Secondary League and anyone who can afford to run a junior team in the NDL can do so... Last thing we need are more clubs closing down and there is still a need IMHO for a staging league in British Speedway as a pathway to the higher echelons of the sport... this Rising Star thing although full of good intentions is a waste of time and effort as putting young kids in without racing time and experience under their belts at a senior level is just a joke. There is an average system and a process to see these junior riders progress and everyone goes through it from Craig Cook Steve Worrall Richie Worrall and Rich Lawson to James Sarjeant Max Clegg Willie Lawson Ashley Morris and Simon Lambert ultimately they all find their level. Put the rule book in the bin and rule No 1 should be; there will always be a minimum number of rules to adhere too; if the rules run to a second page rule No 2 should be the BSPL will work to reducing the number of rules to one page. Do we not over complicate things at times? Regards THJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post barrybishop Posted September 1, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 I just want to say congratulations to Mark and his team at Plymouth in achieving something really quite special this season for speedway in the West Country. Mark has truly worked his socks off, like us he gives literally all that he has in trying to ensure that fans, riders, sponsors and officials have a brilliant night out - he has delivered. He takes pride in his events, pride in his stadium, pride in his "show". People of Plymouth, be proud because you have a good one here and you are now starting to see the acorn Mark planted grow in to an Oak. Businesses are starting hear of the Gladiators, and now have pride in aligning their brand with your club, fans are flocking back, great food, great service, good people. Long may it continue. Congratulations. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizer Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: So no one moves up? do away with the "Top League" and everyone comes "Down" and the NDL is run with the "second/junior teams of clubs only who can afford them" which leaves Mildenhall out on a limb a bit but bear with me... if the Monday and Thursday rule is stuck to for TV revenue then the clubs who may have genuine reasons for not running on those days are Newcastle; Kent and possibly Birmingham and the perceived (other) "Hard Up" clubs like Berwick and Scunthorpe (maybe wide of the mark with these comments but again bear with me) and maybe bring back Eastie and the IOW or even Oxford till they find their feet which gives 8/9 clubs in a mid way Secondary League and state to these clubs they can not utilise a rider with a 7 point average or more in the newly formed British Primary League it will save on costs; no temptation to go and get a perceived "top league" star on a ridiculous rate and no caps on riders wags who feel they might be worth more than they actually are; the market will dictate what they are worth to clubs. If there are no brakes applied (pardon the analogy) then this run away wage chase will never stop. Promotions cant be trusted to stick to wage caps that's been proven more than once in the past so take the temptation away... likewise to strengthen the Primary League no one without an average of 6 or more in the Secondary League can move up (So 6 moving up divided by 1.5) can race in the Primary League which means the lowest average a rider you could have in the Primary League is 4 and for the Tertiary League (or NDL) no one can not move up to the Secondary League until they have achieved an average of 6 in the NDL (So 6 moving up divide by 2) giving a starting average of 2 for the Secondary League. Build to say 45 in the Primary League 35 in the Secondary League and 30 in the Tertiary (NDL) to again restrict teams with unreasonable or unfeasible team building ambitions and this will potentially give 11/12 teams for a Primary League 8/9 teams for a Secondary League and anyone who can afford to run a junior team in the NDL can do so... Last thing we need are more clubs closing down and there is still a need IMHO for a staging league in British Speedway as a pathway to the higher echelons of the sport... this Rising Star thing although full of good intentions is a waste of time and effort as putting young kids in without racing time and experience under their belts at a senior level is just a joke. There is an average system and a process to see these junior riders progress and everyone goes through it from Craig Cook Steve Worrall Richie Worrall and Rich Lawson to James Sarjeant Max Clegg Willie Lawson Ashley Morris and Simon Lambert ultimately they all find their level. Put the rule book in the bin and rule No 1 should be; there will always be a minimum number of rules to adhere too; if the rules run to a second page rule No 2 should be the BSPL will work to reducing the number of rules to one page. Do we not over complicate things at times? Regards THJ Couldn't agree more about lack of a competitive national League. The reason we have this current talented generation of Brennan, Palin, flint, Kemp, Thompson's, bailey etc is because the grew up in a competitive league so were prepared for the jump to the championship. And looking forward to next season with this rising star nonsense is supposed to be getting extended, tell me who in the NFL currently is going to be ready for the step up? Maybe the lad hagon at mildenhall? Beyond that there's not going to be any riders to take the rising star places. In the last 20/25 years riders have progressed through that level so to more or less kill it this season has been shocking IMO. If Eastbourne, Birmingham and maybe even Newcastle had the option of the competitive NDL of 3/4 years ago they may have chosen that option and wouldn't be in the situation they find themselves in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 3 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: So no one moves up? do away with the "Top League" and everyone comes "Down" and the NDL is run with the "second/junior teams of clubs only who can afford them" which leaves Mildenhall out on a limb a bit but bear with me... if the Monday and Thursday rule is stuck to for TV revenue then the clubs who may have genuine reasons for not running on those days are Newcastle; Kent and possibly Birmingham and the perceived (other) "Hard Up" clubs like Berwick and Scunthorpe (maybe wide of the mark with these comments but again bear with me) and maybe bring back Eastie and the IOW or even Oxford till they find their feet which gives 8/9 clubs in a mid way Secondary League and state to these clubs they can not utilise a rider with a 7 point average or more in the newly formed British Primary League it will save on costs; no temptation to go and get a perceived "top league" star on a ridiculous rate and no caps on riders wags who feel they might be worth more than they actually are; the market will dictate what they are worth to clubs. If there are no brakes applied (pardon the analogy) then this run away wage chase will never stop. Promotions cant be trusted to stick to wage caps that's been proven more than once in the past so take the temptation away... likewise to strengthen the Primary League no one without an average of 6 or more in the Secondary League can move up (So 6 moving up divided by 1.5) can race in the Primary League which means the lowest average a rider you could have in the Primary League is 4 and for the Tertiary League (or NDL) no one can not move up to the Secondary League until they have achieved an average of 6 in the NDL (So 6 moving up divide by 2) giving a starting average of 2 for the Secondary League. Build to say 45 in the Primary League 35 in the Secondary League and 30 in the Tertiary (NDL) to again restrict teams with unreasonable or unfeasible team building ambitions and this will potentially give 11/12 teams for a Primary League 8/9 teams for a Secondary League and anyone who can afford to run a junior team in the NDL can do so... Last thing we need are more clubs closing down and there is still a need IMHO for a staging league in British Speedway as a pathway to the higher echelons of the sport... this Rising Star thing although full of good intentions is a waste of time and effort as putting young kids in without racing time and experience under their belts at a senior level is just a joke. There is an average system and a process to see these junior riders progress and everyone goes through it from Craig Cook Steve Worrall Richie Worrall and Rich Lawson to James Sarjeant Max Clegg Willie Lawson Ashley Morris and Simon Lambert ultimately they all find their level. Put the rule book in the bin and rule No 1 should be; there will always be a minimum number of rules to adhere too; if the rules run to a second page rule No 2 should be the BSPL will work to reducing the number of rules to one page. Do we not over complicate things at times? Regards THJ It took you 6 pages to tell us we only need 1 page 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Put the rule book in the bin and rule No 1 should be; there will always be a minimum number of rules to adhere too; if the rules run to a second page rule No 2 should be the BSPL will work to reducing the number of rules to one page. Do we not over complicate things at times? Regards THJ Not that you haven't thought about it, but if you can only use a max or min riders average, (below 7 or above 4, for instance),,, would that only be for team building purposes and/or, what happens if riders averages go beyond the 'goalposts' during the season? Edited September 1, 2021 by ruffdiamond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said: Not that you haven't thought about it, but if you can only use a max or min riders average, (below 7 or above 4, for instance),,, would that only be for team building purposes and/or, what happens if riders averages go beyond the 'goalposts' during the season? Below 7 above 2 in the second tier for team build only and if they go above 7 you've scored for that year... but at the outset the rider wouldn't be coming in on ridiculous wages or aspirations of huge guarentee's... Regards THJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 17 hours ago, ruffdiamond said: Not that you haven't thought about it, but if you can only use a max or min riders average, (below 7 or above 4, for instance),,, would that only be for team building purposes and/or, what happens if riders averages go beyond the 'goalposts' during the season? 17 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Below 7 above 2 in the second tier for team build only and if they go above 7 you've scored for that year... but at the outset the rider wouldn't be coming in on ridiculous wages or aspirations of huge guarentee's... Regards THJ But when riders can go to court to fight a rule saying you could not drop down if your average was more than 6, and won, is a restraint of trade. How many more would fight the rules? The riders, nowadays, have too much power( barring refusal to ride if not getting paid) in track conditions whether too wet, unsafe at al. They can now cheat their employers & fans(Batchelor) by performing poorly to reduce their average so they can earn more riding in 2 leagues as he was not riding abroad. They then reduce their averages(as rides in play offs do not count) slightly, once their teams are in the guaranteed play off positions, to make them more employable the following year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 7 hours ago, IronScorpion said: But when riders can go to court to fight a rule saying you could not drop down if your average was more than 6, and won, is a restraint of trade. How many more would fight the rules? The riders, nowadays, have too much power( barring refusal to ride if not getting paid) in track conditions whether too wet, unsafe at al. They can now cheat their employers & fans(Batchelor) by performing poorly to reduce their average so they can earn more riding in 2 leagues as he was not riding abroad. They then reduce their averages(as rides in play offs do not count) slightly, once their teams are in the guaranteed play off positions, to make them more employable the following year. Dont disagree to a certain extent but are we going to cow tow the the greedy few and allow the tail to wag the dog... who runs the sport the BSPL or the riders... Restrictive Trade disputes were an arguement that rose out of being in the European union and supported by the European Charter for equal rights and opportunities and the like and since Brexit it will be a brave person who brings a legal claim for this now... If a charter is laid out in support of a formal set of rules that are notarized and signed and backed up with good employment law practises you dont fall foul of this but as usual I have no doubt that the BSPL would write something down on the back of a fag packet call it a gentlemans agreement and then the usual suspect would pony all over it... I suppose any system can be manipulated you just need to be as cute as those trying to manipulate the system... there is always more than one way to skin a cat... so you introduce a restricted grading system and one might slip through the net for a season for a team but not three for sure... Regards THJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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