wtf Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) What the PZM are doing is no different to anyone else offering a contract of employment. they are imposing conditions on that employment that no one is forced to sign, but they do. It's no different to you getting a builder round to build an extension and agreeing to pay them a large fee if they only work on your job and one other at the same time to minimise problems that other jobs they do could take them away from your contract. the builder can either sign the contract with the big bucks or not and go work elsewhere. The PZM are only doing what's right for them (why would they not?) The riders if they stuck together would have huge power, but they never will as they are all trying to get one over on each other anyway. they are competitors for jobs at the end of the day. If you pay peanuts you'll end up with scraps Edited June 18, 2022 by wtf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaysliders Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 21 minutes ago, wtf said: What the PZM are doing is no different to anyone else offering a contract of employment. they are imposing conditions on that employment that no one is forced to sign, but they do. It's no different to you getting a builder round to build an extension and agreeing to pay them a large fee if they only work on your job and one other at the same time to minimise problems that other jobs they do could take them away from your contract. the builder can either sign the contract with the big bucks or not and go work elsewhere. The PZM are only doing what's right for them (why would they not?) The riders if they stuck together would have huge power, but they never will as they are all trying to get one over on each other anyway. they are competitors for jobs at the end of the day. If you pay peanuts you'll end up with scraps Thing is i dont think NKI is riding well enough at the moment to take on the Polish League again.So what will happen if the move backfires?!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaysliders Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Bagpuss said: Effectively they are banning riders from racing where they want though because they probably pay them more than the other leagues put together! They know very well riders won't jack Poland in. JASON DOYLE DID,its not all about money for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 43 minutes ago, speedwaysliders said: JASON DOYLE DID,its not all about money for him. No he didn't he chose the UK over Sweden not poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaysliders Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, wtf said: No he didn't he chose the UK over Sweden not poland. OK my mistake Sweden ,but it must be worth more then the uk league for Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, speedwaysliders said: JASON DOYLE DID,its not all about money for him. 36 minutes ago, wtf said: No he didn't he chose the UK over Sweden not poland. 14 minutes ago, speedwaysliders said: OK my mistake Sweden ,but it must be worth more then the uk league for Jason. Family and personal considerations over the pure financial position possibly - or a UK deal at least on a par with Sweden perhaps...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Family and personal considerations over the pure financial position possibly - or a UK deal at least on a par with Sweden perhaps...... Also, Jason is a rider who likes to keep busy. In Sweden he would have a minimum of 14 fixtures plus play-offs etc. Here he gets a minimum of 29 plus any guest appearences that might be in the offing. Getting back to NKI, here's a plan that could work. He drops out of the Danish league for the 29th June fixture as suggested and stays with the Stars throughout July. He can then re-join Ebsjerg from the 3rd August whereby King's Lynn can claim a 28 day facility covering them until the end of August. The regular season in Denmark is over by 24th August so if Ebsjerg fail to reach the play-offs (they are currently 3rd) he could come back to King's Lynn. However, if they do, it frees up other riders of clubs whose competition is over or the play-offs can be covered by Woffinden. Edited June 18, 2022 by tocha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 in the 70s and 80s a lot of UK based riders would make a point of going over to Germany etc for Sunday longtrack and earning really good money from one meeting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 9 hours ago, mikebv said: And you can add that this country is still the ONLY country who want to have EVERY day/night of the week available to them... Simply. When Poland started to take over the UK's place at the head of the table, then this country, (whilst it still had strength and influence), should have just "gone it alone" and set up without needing to rely on so many overseas riders.. Instead. It bent over, changed race nights to accommodate even more overseas riders, and then felt hard done to when the same riders all said "I'm off", and dropped the UK, leaving the promoters with their only route of either bringing over even more overseas riders, but of a much reduced standard from those who had said "goodbye", and letting pretty much every rider ride for two teams. (Which then renders the leagues somewhat farcical).. Too many promoters want to compete at a level that either their purse strings dont allow, or not having enough riders available at the desired level they want to run at, doesnt allow.. When all that gets aligned, (hope springs eternal), and tracks only open for business on nights their customers want, rather than nights their employees want, then maybe recovery and growth can start to be achieved.. We do not, we use Mondays and Thursdays! Yes our promoters have tried to accommodate other leagues, GP promoters, stock car promoters, dog racing promoters etc because actually everything can work with a bit of give and take, until Poland pi@@ed on the matches in all ways, looking forward to them getting burnt, may be too late for British Speedway though .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 9 hours ago, szkocjasid said: If every top rider at the start of 2021 got together & agreed not to sign for the Polish Extraliga, the PZM would either have had to change the rules or run with a Div 1 stronger than the top tier. The riders could all have agreed if PZM don't back down, we'll sign out contracts on the last possible day - so they didn't risk losing out in the high wages! But why would the PZM ever change their stance now? Riders have said they don't agree with it, but still willingly sign. Guessing the guys simply don't want the hassle, the majority just aren't bothered about racing here anyway. Look at all the young aussies going straight to Poland, sad for us but we do need to push our youngsters on somehow. At last have read what Mark Lemon has said in the Star, that the Championship promoters need to embrace the rising star scheme again, to weaken Championship teams so there isn't the need for so much doubling up of riders but the encouragement/improvement of youngsters. He thinks at some point in the very near future that GB will be bereft of riders because we haven't trained them up basically. He thinks all promoters need to look to the future instead of today ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Trees said: We do not, we use Mondays and Thursdays! Yes our promoters have tried to accommodate other leagues, GP promoters, stock car promoters, dog racing promoters etc because actually everything can work with a bit of give and take, until Poland pi@@ed on the matches in all ways, looking forward to them getting burnt, may be too late for British Speedway though .... No it doesn't ... The sport runs Monday to Sunday using many of the same riders.. No other country wants to have access to riders EVERY single day of the week other than the UK.... Hence, so many meetings end up being ridiculous made up "Guestfests" which does it absolutely no favours whatsoever... And does nothing but destroy its credibility... Enjoy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 Just now, mikebv said: No it doesn't ... The sport runs Monday to Sunday using many of the same riders.. No other country wants to have access to riders EVERY single day of the week other than the UK.... Hence, so many meetings end up being ridiculous made up "Guestfests" which does it absolutely no favours whatsoever... And does nothing but destroy its credibility... Enjoy.... Riders who want to/are good enough to race in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GPs only race Mondays and Thursdays in the UK. Doesn't matter about the others really does it...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Trees said: Riders who want to/are good enough to race in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GPs only race Mondays and Thursdays in the UK. Doesn't matter about the others really does it...... ???? If you want to run a national sporting competition with 3 leagues and expect fans to emotionally buy into it, (and if they dont you are 100% wasting your time, energy, and money).. Of course it does.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, mikebv said: ???? If you want to run a national sporting competition with 3 leagues and expect fans to emotionally buy into it, (and if they dont you are 100% wasting your time, energy, and money).. Of course it does.. The system could work well if the Poles would allow it to ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Trees said: The system could work well if the Poles would allow it to ...... They pay so much, what they say goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 Just now, Bald Bloke said: They pay so much, what they say goes. Yep that's it ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Trees said: The system could work well if the Poles would allow it to ...... The system would work well if the Poles had no influence on it... The fact they do is 100% down to the operating model that UK promoters have chosen to follow... In the world of bike racing for example, the BSB and WSB exist and both do well, with the reason being the BSB "know their place" and use a level of rider below the level of WSB... They ensure that their operating model and business model isn't influenced by another, (bigger) player in their field of operation... They know that the top level riders in their version of the sport will organically move on to WSB/MotoGP, so have a strong development plan through their running of lower level championships alongside their main one... Ensuring a solid constant stream of participants, whilst also putting out a good value for money offering every other weekend to their fans... The BSP should do the same, and should actually have done it around 10 years ago when Poland started to influence their business far too much.... The fact they didn't, and still don't, isn't the fault of the Poles... Edited June 19, 2022 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 Might need fine tuning but how about this as a suggestion as an alternative to the current Polish rules. Rather than 1 and 2 extra leagues that the Polish rules state how about a week is classified as starting on Monday and finishing on Sunday and each rider who rides Extraleague is allowed 1 other night league racing that week and E Winner/Div 2 - 2 extra league nights racing. This would help where the teams use a squad system and currently a rider might be signed but not used. It would need a lot of co-operation between, Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GB but might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, mikebv said: The system would work well if the Poles had no influence on it... The fact they do is 100% down to the operating model that UK promoters have chosen to follow... In the world of bike racing for example, the BSB and WSB exist and both do well, with the reason being the BSB "know their place" and use a level of rider below the level of WSB... They ensure that their operating model and business model isn't influenced by another, (bigger) player in their field of operation... They know that the top level riders in their version of the sport will organically move on to WSB/MotoGP, so have a strong development plan through their running of lower level championships alongside their main one... Ensuring a solid constant stream of participants, whilst also putting out a good value for money offering every other weekend to their fans... The BSP should do the same, and should actually have done it around 10 years ago when Poland started to influence their business far too much.... The fact they didn't, and still don't, isn't the fault of the Poles... On the other hand Poland could and should allow self employed riders to do what they want as they did for years successfully instead of restricting their earning potential! Many riders do not even want to race in all leagues so it won't affect many of them anyway! It sounds that things may change next year so we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 45 minutes ago, Trees said: On the other hand Poland could and should allow self employed riders to do what they want as they did for years successfully instead of restricting their earning potential! Many riders do not even want to race in all leagues so it won't affect many of them anyway! It sounds that things may change next year so we will see. Restricting their earning potential They give the top boys the chance to earn the same per point as they would per meeting in the UK All they are saying is that to qualify to be part of this you have to be fresh and available pretty much on demand (including for practice sessions) Rider choice , not unreasonable employer demands 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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