For or against the GP series.?

[Sidney the robin]

When the series was first set up i was totally against it but have gradually got to except it for what it is and except change.I personally loved the old format the one off final ( 5 rides no semi finals) just a shame there is not a place for both formats.Is the series becoming stale ?does it need tinkering with for me personally to see Bartosz ride is a reason alone to watch great to see Artem pushing on in his  career to.Any thoughts who are fans of the series?  who are against it be interesting to hear peoples opinion.

[mickthemuppet]

Surely there should be room to run Grand Pix and an individual competitions in the same season. Other sports do. I used to think the  qualifying   rounds  in the individual  event  were great .A rider would have one home meeting and two away and highest scorers went to the final 16. 

[steve roberts]

I went to a few one-off finals (Wembley, Norden, Amsterdam, Katowice, Gothenburg and Vojens) and they were all great experiences. I can see the attraction in a GP Series but from the beginning I could see the disruption it would cause to the UK domestic programme especially when the number of rounds were increased.

[Split]

I think the GP series is more likely to produce a worthy world champion. One-off meetings have on a couple of occasions produced a winner who most would agree was not speedway's top rider that year.

 

[chunky]

4 hours ago, Split said:

I think the GP series is more likely to produce a worthy world champion. One-off meetings have on a couple of occasions produced a winner who most would agree was not speedway's top rider that year.

 

Plus, the GP's are designed to have the best riders in the world. The World Final was designed to qualify riders based more on nationality, and every year, there was a least one rider who SHOULD have been there that wasn't.

[Split]

20 hours ago, chunky said:

Plus, the GP's are designed to have the best riders in the world. The World Final was designed to qualify riders based more on nationality, and every year, there was a least one rider who SHOULD have been there that wasn't.

Or riders who shouldn't have been there but were.

[Ovalman]

I'm for the GP. Although Covid has cancelled the last two Cardiff GPs, have enjoyed all nine I've attended. A good day out.

[Midland Red]

21 hours ago, chunky said:

Plus, the GP's are designed to have the best riders in the world. The World Final was designed to qualify riders based more on nationality, and every year, there was a least one rider who SHOULD have been there that wasn't.

Questionable, my good friend

[chunky]

2 hours ago, Midland Red said:

Questionable, my good friend

Which part(s)?

[BOBBATH]

I agree with chunky and not midland red on this, definitely there were some guys very lucky to get to the World Final , and certainly  to win it. E.G. in the first category Bryan Elliott, in the second category no way could Jerzy Sczakiel have become World Champ. in a GP series -not sure about Egon Muller either.

[Midland Red]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

Which part(s)?

The World Finals were a culmination of many, many qualifying rounds around Europe, where many, many riders had the opportunity to qualify. Those that came through all the rounds deserved to be there in the final, therefore the best riders of that year.

With the GPs, just how many riders have the opportunity to qualify? Places are taken by riders qualifying through what they achieved in previous seasons, by selection, and may well not be as good in the current season as others who have no opportunity to qualify.

Remember the WCQRs at all British tracks?  Virtually all British and Australasian riders had the opportunity to qualify, now they have virtually none.
 

And don’t get me started on wildcards, the semi-finals and finals, this season’s revised scoring system.

Sorry, but OOFC is a bit of a closed shop.

[customhouseregular]

8 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

I agree with chunky and not midland red on this, definitely there were some guys very lucky to get to the World Final , and certainly  to win it. E.G. in the first category Bryan Elliott, in the second category no way could Jerzy Sczakiel have become World Champ. in a GP series -not sure about Egon Muller either.

The old system had its flaws certainly but I still preferred it. Yes, some top guys lost out and some no-hopers made it to the final, but generally the cream rose to the top. Think Mauser, Briggs, Moore, Craven etc. I don’t know if Knutsson would have won over a 10-12 round GP series. He was good enough certainly.

[customhouseregular]

5 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

The World Finals were a culmination of many, many qualifying rounds around Europe, where many, many riders had the opportunity to qualify. Those that came through all the rounds deserved to be there in the final, therefore the best riders of that year.

With the GPs, just how many riders have the opportunity to qualify? Places are taken by riders qualifying through what they achieved in previous seasons, by selection, and may well not be as good in the current season as others who have no opportunity to qualify.

Remember the WCQRs at all British tracks?  Virtually all British and Australasian riders had the opportunity to qualify, now they have virtually none.
 

And don’t get me started on wildcards, the semi-finals and finals, this season’s revised scoring system.

Sorry, but OOFC is a bit of a closed shop.

I have to agree with you on all points.

[mickthemuppet]

18 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

I agree with chunky and not midland red on this, definitely there were some guys very lucky to get to the World Final , and certainly  to win it. E.G. in the first category Bryan Elliott, in the second category no way could Jerzy Sczakiel have become World Champ. in a GP series -not sure about Egon Muller either.

I think JS is much derided as not only did he beat Ivan Mauger to win his World Individual  he won the World Pairs as well in 1971. He partnered Andrzej Wyglenda . They scored 15 points each for 30 points. Who finished 2nd on 25 points none other than Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger 3rd was Anders Michanek and Bernt Persson. So was this title a fluke as well

  His problem was the restriction placed on him by the Polish authorities who blocked him from leaving Poland too many times

[OveFundinFan]

34 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

I agree with chunky and not midland red on this, definitely there were some guys very lucky to get to the World Final , and certainly  to win it. E.G. in the first category Bryan Elliott, in the second category no way could Jerzy Sczakiel have become World Champ. in a GP series -not sure about Egon Muller either.

Re Sczakiel, I think it was in one of Ivan Maugers books where he was praising JS as a top rider that was underrated by the many. Yes, Ivan spoke highly of him. Maybe he would have done well in a GP series.

Muller was a fantastic long track rider, and a very good speedway rider, capable of being a spoiler.. I would expect him to finish about 10th-12th in a GP series though.

[chunky]

42 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

The World Finals were a culmination of many, many qualifying rounds around Europe, where many, many riders had the opportunity to qualify. Those that came through all the rounds deserved to be there in the final, therefore the best riders of that year.

Depending on nationality (and seeding), riders competed in different numbers of meetings. Some qualified after one or two meetings. I'm not saying that the riders who qualified for the final didn't deserve to be there, but it was quite possible for riders to scrape through with some mediocre performances. Having said that, one bad night - even one fall or e/f - and it was easy for a rider to get screwed.

42 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

With the GPs, just how many riders have the opportunity to qualify? Places are taken by riders qualifying through what they achieved in previous seasons, by selection, and may well not be as good in the current season as others who have no opportunity to qualify.

I'm nor exactly sure how the European qualification works these days, but there are still qualifying rounds. What people forget is that EVERYBODY still has to qualify these days. With the top eight (now six) from the previous year qualifying from the previous year's GP series, that to me is still the fairest way of qualifying. A rider is not going to lose out because of bad luck;; everybody has a full year to qualify. It doesn't matter that it was done the previous year.

How many riders currently outside the GP's would you say are better than those in it? The lower placed riders in the last few years have tended to be those who have qualified from the GP challenge - which people probably feel is the fairest way of qualifying. People weren't happy to see Kasprzak in this year - but he qualified on merit.

43 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Remember the WCQRs at all British tracks?  Virtually all British and Australasian riders had the opportunity to qualify, now they have virtually none.

How many British and Australasian riders are there these days? Not even enough to have qualifiers at the few tracks we have left!

43 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

this season’s revised scoring system.

Like most, I preferred the old system. However, again I will ask:

1) Is it fair that the winner of a GP gets the most points?
     Previously, you could win the GP, and lose ground on those riders you just beat. It was possible for a rider to win every GP, and not even get enough points to finish in the Top 8 at the end of the year!

[customhouseregular]

1 hour ago, BOBBATH said:

I agree with chunky and not midland red on this, definitely there were some guys very lucky to get to the World Final , and certainly  to win it. E.G. in the first category Bryan Elliott, in the second category no way could Jerzy Sczakiel have become World Champ. in a GP series -not sure about Egon Muller either.

Scenario: Szmarzlik and Laguta get injured before the next GP and take no further part this year. Lindgren or Sayfutdinov wins the title. Did the best rider win, is he a worthy World Champion? Luck has always played a part. Sczakiel was lucky Mauger fell, Muller was lucky the final was in Germany and had the track prepared to his liking.

[stevehone]

i used to love the world finals, but i've grown to love the GPs.

but, with the GPs i would prefer 20 heats and scores totalled at the end, no semi/finals, as gate positions always come into play and overall it should be about most points accumulated not someone sneaking into the semi's on 7 or 8 but walking away with 20 or whatever it is 

[chunky]

19 minutes ago, stevehone said:

i used to love the world finals, but i've grown to love the GPs.

but, with the GPs i would prefer 20 heats and scores totalled at the end, no semi/finals

What I said...

[keepturningleft]

GP's, without a doubt.

I saw 3 world finals, Wembley '69 and Odsal '85 & 90, great occasions all,  but GP's are a much better way of doing things.

Besides we get to have a magnificent big time occasion every single year at Cardiff. Previously the big night only came to the UK once every 5 years or so.

Some are moaning about a likely 2 horse race this year between Laguta and Zmarzlik, but honestly what's not to like. Zmarzlik is incredible to watch, a hundred times more spectacular than Mauger, Briggs, Olsen and many others put together and he pulls off moves you would never have see any of those afore mentioned riders make.