Fromafar Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, wtf said: Somebody has got to agree to pay them, you can't blame a rider for being overpaid, when a promoter agrees to pay it. Its a bit like people blaming MacDonald's for being fat. You certainly can’t blame the riders.When you see the Eastbourne situation (and others)you have to wonder if the have a business plan based on crowd levels though.The would be a basic start to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 13 hours ago, Tsunami said: Can't imagine it as both of those riders were in the same U19 Final meeting that Archie was in. Not for yesterday's meeting, but if Freeman was missing again, they'd be legal options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 16 hours ago, screm said: Batchelor has used Sheffield to get a Championship team, it has worked, so credit to him for that. If he started racing to his 8.00 ave after signing with Kent I'd agree with you, but he's still struggling at Sheffield after gaining a Champ place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, robbieblackadder fan club said: Is there any chance of bringing anyone in before the transfer window shut I doubt it as they dropped Vissing before the season started due to the budget set out! Wouldn't make sense to break said budget now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: If he started racing to his 8.00 ave after signing with Kent I'd agree with you, but he's still struggling at Sheffield after gaining a Champ place! Still very strange, the way Batch carries on you'd think there is a massive gap between the two leagues. However looking at the BV averages that Rob B put up for the meeting thread Richie is only just above Jye's averages and Stevie's is only 5.58, considering his form for Poole and leagues quite close thought it would be a bit higher, IDK though, maybe i'm expecting too much again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fromafar said: You certainly can’t blame the riders.When you see the Eastbourne situation (and others)you have to wonder if the have a business plan based on crowd levels though.The would be a basic start to me. I agree. Many on here blame the riders for holding the sport to ransom and insisting on huge wages. the promoters always make their case for being the victims. Yet I can recall at least 3 attempts in the last 10 years when the promoters have agreed on a pay cap and then within literally weeks of agreeing it, one or two of them have gone way outside the agreement to get one over on the others. You can't blame a rider for being paid what one idiot is prepared to pay them. It's a bit like someone refusing a pay rise insisting they are not worth it. It's the idiot prepared to pay them an inflated wage in one breath and then moan about it in the next. Can you imagine any other place of work where if you weren't being paid, so you refused to work because the terms of your contract had been broken, the people owing you money could stop you working elsewhere? Speedway in the UK is run INSPITE of the people who run it, not because of. Edited August 23, 2021 by wtf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: I doubt it as they dropped Vissing before the season started due to the budget set out! Wouldn't make sense to break said budget now! It had nothing to do with the "Budget set out!" as has been pointed out numerous times... Regards THJ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrP Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 43 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: It had nothing to do with the "Budget set out!" as has been pointed out numerous times... Regards THJ Doesn’t matter how many times it’s said. Most people will believe what they want. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, wtf said: Somebody has got to agree to pay them, you can't blame a rider for being overpaid, when a promoter agrees to pay it. Its a bit like people blaming MacDonald's for being fat. 100% However, the level of rider being used in the 2nd tier can only inflate the overall payroll costs for all the clubs.. And as Promoters see winning at home as fundamental to any survival, all then have to pay the "going rate" for that level of rider.. If one club has that level of rider (and some have three), then others need them too... And whilst some clubs can (and are allowed to), throw massive sums on a "hobby", with actually making money not being a priority, you can only cause an over heating of the payroll spend.. Which can only end badly for some... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarsbar2 Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, mikebv said: 100% However, the level of rider being used in the 2nd tier can only inflate the overall payroll costs for all the clubs.. And as Promoters see winning at home as fundamental to any survival, all then have to pay the "going rate" for that level of rider.. If one club has that level of rider (and some have three), then others need them too... And whilst some clubs can (and are allowed to), throw massive sums on a "hobby", with actually making money not being a priority, you can only cause an over heating of the payroll spend.. Which can only end badly for some... The level of rider in the championship is not the problem, it's the fact that there is no elite riders in the UK so second tier riders are doubling up. Team averages every year are being lower so the standard in the championship is going down. If they were to say introduce a rule that you could only have two riders over say 7.5 in a team then there might be enough heat leaders to go round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, mikebv said: 100% However, the level of rider being used in the 2nd tier can only inflate the overall payroll costs for all the clubs.. And as Promoters see winning at home as fundamental to any survival, all then have to pay the "going rate" for that level of rider.. If one club has that level of rider (and some have three), then others need them too... And whilst some clubs can (and are allowed to), throw massive sums on a "hobby", with actually making money not being a priority, you can only cause an over heating of the payroll spend.. Which can only end badly for some... I think if there are Promoters who can afford it just let them,they still have to build to points limit.When the leagues amalgamation took place in 1965.The top clubs that were in the big league kept most of their riders and gave the smaller clubs some pretty hefty defeats,but when you we seeing eg.Harfeldt McKinley,Hunter orBoocock,Mountford France coming to Meadowbank it was packed.Money was being made.Example this season at Berwick Plymouth attracted a decent crowd,and we know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: It had nothing to do with the "Budget set out!" as has been pointed out numerous times... Regards THJ Why did they drop him then, I thought Newcastle admitted they couldn't afford him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Why did they drop him then, I thought Newcastle admitted they couldn't afford him? Honestly For the sake of everyone's sanity I am not going through this again however Visa with Travel to and from Denmark was a major issue as at first Claus said he would be residing in the UK then changed his mind and more than anything else his commitment to the club could not be guaranteed as he did not have a slot in the top league to make it truly viable for him and stated his Danish commitments would come before anything else amongst other things. As ever it is much more complicated than a throw away one line comment... the deal had been done (which wasn't cheap granted) however the other baggage that started to rack up once the deal had been done was starting to prove to be more expensive and disruptive than the actual hassle it was causing or worth but the promotion couldn't say or wouldn't say the bloke was being a tool and talking himself out of a deal now could they. IMHO I don't think there was one major single issue as such; and it was an absolute multitude of minor problems that made the promotion think again and all have been discussed "ad nauseam" on a multitude of threads on here... Regards THJ Edited August 23, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn Missed out word 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Fromafar said: I think if there are Promoters who can afford it just let them,they still have to build to points limit.When the leagues amalgamation took place in 1965.The top clubs that were in the big league kept most of their riders and gave the smaller clubs some pretty hefty defeats,but when you we seeing eg.Harfeldt McKinley,Hunter orBoocock,Mountford France coming to Meadowbank it was packed.Money was being made.Example this season at Berwick Plymouth attracted a decent crowd,and we know why. There isn't the riders these days to attract a big crowd when visiting your track, apart from maybe Jason Crump and Bjarne Pederson on his farewell tour, who, as you say, managed a 'decent crowd' at Berwick.. No disrespect but the 'big names' like Bomber, Rory and Scott visiting your track for the umpteenth time (and with guest bookings that could be just this season!), isn't going to have the turnstiles clicking too many extra times.. However lads of their level (and there are loads in tier 2) won't be "cheap" when you have to find that level of rider (maybe two of them or even three?), to compete, and you only get 600 or 700 or so crowd levels to pay them... I think the sport is now at a critical point where letting the clubs with money "do what they want" can only spell disaster for some others as they try and compete... Maybe these clubs who "can do what they want" should have to do it in tier one? And use their money to attract some GP riders in? At least then when visiting away tracks in tier one they may attract good crowds if they have world class riders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 10 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Not for yesterday's meeting, but if Freeman was missing again, they'd be legal options! Well we have been about 5 points behind every other teams all season, so you can hardly accuse us of illegal strengthening can you. Especially when the 3 star guest has a mare of a booking for us last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Tsunami said: Well we have been about 5 points behind every other teams all season, so you can hardly accuse us of illegal strengthening can you. Especially when the 3 star guest has a mare of a booking for us last night. I don't understand the rule as it's different to the normal guest rules! As Newcastle are below the points limit can they bring in Sam Masters to replace Wethers - no, so should only be able to use a 2* rider to replace a 1* or 2* reserve! If teams can replace 1 or 2* reserves with a 3* reserve they should also be able to replace a 6.00 rider for a 9.00 rider if 3 points under the limit! I can't understand how similar situations have different outcomes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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