Fromafar Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Our youngsters have long way to go.Bewley and Lambert are a couple of steps above them just now and they are not exactly finding it easy to go further at this stage.Best of Luck to all the Brits though.Finding the Sponsorship and money is not easy these days.If you can establish yourself Poland you have chance,but that’s cutthroat stuff if you don’t Already have the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Pinny said: I remember the likes of Stead, Howe, Neath, Brady, Appleton, Allen to name a few being much more competitive in a stronger second tier and all having much more ability than the current crop and how many of them went on to be better than at best a good second string in the top tier? Thats not a dig at any of them either before anyone starts. Just what people expected of them . Then you have Kennett and Bridger too. I actually agree with Daniel Smith… our future on the world stage looks very bleak. Totally right Pinny we didn’t expect that much then, the riders you named yes were all talented .Do we expect much of our youngsters now probably not just hope one or two of them can push on. Edited August 24, 2021 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Pinny said: I remember the likes of Stead, Howe, Neath, Brady, Appleton, Allen to name a few being much more competitive in a stronger second tier and all having much more ability than the current crop and how many of them went on to be better than at best a good second string in the top tier? Thats not a dig at any of them either before anyone starts. Just what people expected of them . Then you have Kennett and Bridger too. I actually agree with Daniel Smith… our future on the world stage looks very bleak. I think the "Rising Star" moniker does them few favours.. It gives the impression that they will become top level riders.. When the actuality, based on history, is that most will never reach tier one HL status (unless of course it continues to be diluted and they may then get a chance).... At their age the truly World Class GB riders of the past 20 years or so, were beating the best in the world who were all riding in the UK at the time... Eg Screen, Loram, Louis, and Havelock, all of whom were well ahead of these lads at a similar age.. Bomber and Nicholls can be added to that list too a little more recent.. With Woffinden, Lambert and Bewley the three most recent examples of riders at a very young age beating some of the best in the world in their formative Speedway years.. These lads within the RS schemes are more likely to be 'solid' riders who take places in teams that previously would be taken by foreign journeymen I would suggest looking at their current level of performance.. And that's not a bad thing for the future of the sport at UK domestic level I would say.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) On 8/22/2021 at 1:14 PM, GWC said: Poland want to dominate but when the U.K. had its place at the top (70’s) we tried to bring other countries along with us - Poland being an example where their standard of rider at that time was similar to where we are now. We encouraged the USA and Danes to come to the U.K. and they profited greatly - do Poland now want to do the same? Aren't they already doing it? And have been doing it for years. A good example is the young Russians that they have taken in and helped develop...Sayfutdinov, Laguta, Kulakov, Tarasenko, amongst others. The young Danes and Swedes go to Poland as soon as they are a good enough standard for the lower leagues. You'll have seen far more young Danes starting in Polish leagues than British leagues in recent years. Luke Becker got his European start in Poland because he was refused a work permit for the UK. Similar for Lidsey, Gilmore, McGuiness, Rew, Bowes, etc from Australia. Edited August 23, 2021 by HenryW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 22 hours ago, Pinny said: I remember the likes of Stead, Howe, Neath, Brady, Appleton, Allen to name a few being much more competitive in a stronger second tier and all having much more ability than the current crop and how many of them went on to be better than at best a good second string in the top tier? Thats not a dig at any of them either before anyone starts. Just what people expected of them . Then you have Kennett and Bridger too. I actually agree with Daniel Smith… our future on the world stage looks very bleak. Thing is though how good could all of those been had they been able to get regular experience abroad from a young age, and a foot in the Polish door in their teens? This Polish U24 league could absolutely be what the current crop need to fulfill their potential, the U21 years are absolutely vital in a riders development and just riding in the UK and becoming an expert on our tight tricky tracks is no good if you want to be competitive internationally. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) After their last huge TV contract, Polish Speedway stated their plans to increase the amount of teams in the top leagues... So, presuming they are not going to decide to allow 90% of their riders to ride in both the top two divisions.. Nor allow 'guests' to destroy their leagues' credibility (as well as the huge TV deal, national sponsors who put in hundreds of thousands, and obviously decimate its fanbase).. You have to think that using "more foreign riders" may be part of their overall plan? However, if so, I can pretty much guarantee it will be controlled, and it wont be allowed to impact the flow of Polish talent coming through, as they know that a successful national team is paramount to keeping the sport in the wider general public eye... Edited August 24, 2021 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Bagpuss said: Thing is though how good could all of those been had they been able to get regular experience abroad from a young age, and a foot in the Polish door in their teens? This Polish U24 league could absolutely be what the current crop need to fulfill their potential, the U21 years are absolutely vital in a riders development and just riding in the UK and becoming an expert on our tight tricky tracks is no good if you want to be competitive internationally. A few of them did get Swedish experience in their teens abroad - Appleton regularly went to NZ and Sweden whilst Allen and Stead were always abroad riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 2 hours ago, mikebv said: After their last huge TV contract, Polish Speedway stated their plans to increase the amount of teams in the top leagues... So, presuming they are not going to decide to allow 90% of their riders to ride in both the top two divisions.. Nor allow 'guests' to destroy their leagues' credibility (as well as the huge TV deal, national sponsors who put in hundreds of thousands, and obviously decimate its fanbase).. You have to think that using "more foreign riders" may be part of their overall plan? However, if so, I can pretty much guarantee it will be controlled, and it wont be allowed to impact the flow of Polish talent coming through, as they know that a successful national team is paramount to keeping the sport in the wider general public eye... As good as some of the Poles are, they still very much rely on foreign International riders to make up the bulk of the strength of their teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 On 8/23/2021 at 1:45 PM, Pinny said: I remember the likes of Stead, Howe, Neath, Brady, Appleton, Allen to name a few being much more competitive in a stronger second tier and all having much more ability than the current crop and how many of them went on to be better than at best a good second string in the top tier? Thats not a dig at any of them either before anyone starts. Just what people expected of them . Then you have Kennett and Bridger too. I actually agree with Daniel Smith… our future on the world stage looks very bleak. If you look at it another way Pinny, Bewley and Lambert have made great strides in just a few years and barring major injuries, should stay at a top level for GB for maybe the next 10-15 years, which is plenty of time to develop /unearth the next 'superstar'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 34 minutes ago, iainb said: As good as some of the Poles are, they still very much rely on foreign International riders to make up the bulk of the strength of their teams. Which is exactly why they are actively recruiting I would say... They will no doubt want to keep four Poles per team... Maybe some of our lads will suddenly find some Polish ancestors...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 Most, if not all, of the riders will have to go out & find sponsors willing to splash out on 2 maybe 3 top tuned engines to develop & keep up with the "throttle (to the backstop) jockeys" that are riding on the bigger, wider Polish tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, IronScorpion said: Most, if not all, of the riders will have to go out & find sponsors willing to splash out on 2 maybe 3 top tuned engines to develop & keep up with the "throttle (to the backstop) jockeys" that are riding on the bigger, wider Polish tracks. Rather than learn to just gate and go, and do just enough to stay in front of faster and better riders on slick, tight, narrow tracks in the UK? Tracks that haven't evolved at any where near the same rate as the bikes now ridden have...? As lots of the top GP and Polish lLeague riders prove, long gone are the days of having to do many years riding in the UK as part of your "apprenticeship in Speedway"... If some of our lads can find that "Polish Speed" through getting the backing needed, and land very good contracts, then good luck to them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 Our tracks haven't evolved ..... The majority of our big tracks were sold off years ago! We're left with what we have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 5 hours ago, The Dog said: If you look at it another way Pinny, Bewley and Lambert have made great strides in just a few years and barring major injuries, should stay at a top level for GB for maybe the next 10-15 years, which is plenty of time to develop /unearth the next 'superstar'... This 'superstar' you talk of probably haven't been on a bike yet. I can absolutely say with confidence, that rider will not come from this group of rider's being talked about. Some of our current youngsters are already 19-20 or close too & not cutting it as Premiership reserves, just managing 2 averages. We're absolutely levels below foreign U21's at thos moment. 100% we have no high quality potential coming through after Dan Bewley. Many are blinded by the lack of quality throughout in the British leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: This 'superstar' you talk of probably haven't been on a bike yet. I can absolutely say with confidence, that rider will not come from this group of rider's being talked about. Some of our current youngsters are already 19-20 or close too & not cutting it as Premiership reserves, just managing 2 averages. We're absolutely levels below foreign U21's at thos moment. 100% we have no high quality potential coming through after Dan Bewley. Many are blinded by the lack of quality throughout in the British leagues. Maybe so, but as they all develop at different rates you can never tell for sure. Jason Doyle is a good example of this. All I was pointing out is that now we have Woffy, Lambert and Bewley doing well on the world scene, it buys us a bit of time to find the next Woffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: This 'superstar' you talk of probably haven't been on a bike yet. I can absolutely say with confidence, that rider will not come from this group of rider's being talked about. Some of our current youngsters are already 19-20 or close too & not cutting it as Premiership reserves, just managing 2 averages. We're absolutely levels below foreign U21's at thos moment. 100% we have no high quality potential coming through after Dan Bewley. Many are blinded by the lack of quality throughout in the British leagues. Exactly right, people thinking the current crop are set for huge things because their beating eachother in the UK leagues are dreaming. Fair play to Lambert and Bewley, they went abroad and stuck at it and are reaping the rewards. Staying in the UK with the odd under 21's meeting abroad will do nothing to improve them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 14 hours ago, mikebv said: They will no doubt want to keep four Poles per team... Will they though? I've only read a google translated press release which was a bit garbled, but, If Ekstaliga clubs are to run U24 teams of 7 riders will they still need their protected reserve positions in the A Team, a lot of whom this season have been massively out of their depth? Or will they be filling those 16 places with more experienced non-poles from around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) The current group of 17-19 year old is the strongest we have had for a long time, and there is a reasonable chance that one of them will make it to the GPS, but any more than that is being over optimistic. For all the promise that a rider shows at an early age there is a long way to go to make it to the top. The best two UK reared 15 year old prodigies in the 27 seasons of the NL remain David Howe and Lewis Bridger. Edited August 25, 2021 by arnieg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 Some really negative posts on here, probably from supporters who think they are up to date, but are detached from reality. People speaking about big wide tracks in Poland and the throttle jockeys, with no one under 20 on the British radar. REALLY !!!! With the possible expansion of the Polish League, this is a great opportunity for British Speedway. How`s that you are wondering? Both Germany and Latvia have a team in the Polish League, why not a British one? This would help develop our young riders along with their foreign young rivals of similar talent. A couple of Premier League tracks are big and wide enough and sufficient Stadium facilities to do this. Firstly and foremost there is a market out their to attract a new and younger audience. To move forward you must invest in the future. Wait a minute who is going to take such a risk financially, well with everyone always slating greedy promoters for taking all and giving nothing back. Potentially the gains outweigh the losses. He who dares wins. Waiting in anticipation of all and sundry slaters, roll up roll up !!!!!!!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 It's an idea similar to the Super League that Matt Ford spoke about years ago which was met with a lot of negativity, but yes, why not give it a go? What has British speedway got to lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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