RIP British Speedway

[Falcon1983]

its not the death but a potential rebirth?

Next Season 

British League (Ran to Championship level this season)
Belle Vue
Ipswich
Sheffield
Wolverhampton
Glasgow
Kent
Poole
Kings Lynn
Peterborough


National League (Stronger than this years points limit)
Mildenhall
Berwick
Birmingham
Eastbourne
Edinburgh
Newcastle 
Plymouth
Redcar
Scunthorpe
Leicester

 

Just because clubs are struggling now in the CL doesn't mean they can't prosper in the NL, take Eastbourne for example 

[mikebv]

12 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

its not the death but a potential rebirth?

Next Season 

British League (Ran to Championship level this season)
Belle Vue
Ipswich
Sheffield
Wolverhampton
Glasgow
Kent
Poole
Kings Lynn
Peterborough


National League (Stronger than this years points limit)
Mildenhall
Berwick
Birmingham
Eastbourne
Edinburgh
Newcastle 
Plymouth
Redcar
Scunthorpe
Leicester

 

Just because clubs are struggling now in the CL doesn't mean they can't prosper in the NL, take Eastbourne for example 

Good call..

With the addition of the IOW back in the 2nd tier.

The sport needs their promotional input..

I would dispense with "fixed race nights" and include Leicester on a Saturday in the top tier, (maybe as Kent's replacement?)

Still call the leagues Premiership and Championship so it doesnt mention "development league" in the second tier..

Even though many of the riders may be that level..

Bottom line though is the strength of the teams will have to be fair, (we know averages dont work due to be being far too easy to manipulate and the many variables that deliver them) so dont just use them as the sole determinant..

Maybe some "rider control" agreements will be needed as a temporary measure to ensure all genuinely come to the tapes "relatively even"...?

Rather than the usual "everyone is equal"...

(Apart from the teams that everyone on here says "they've no chance" and those teams then finish 40 to 50 points behind the top teams at the end of the season). 

And a salary cap might be a useful addition too?

Whatever they do, they need to work very closely together..

Winning any league isnt a priority given how the leagues are set up, but having competitive, close Speedway is important to keep the fans interested..

Edited August 20, 2021 by mikebv

[Tinker]

9 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

its not the death but a potential rebirth?

Next Season 

British League (Ran to Championship level this season)
Belle Vue
Ipswich
Sheffield
Wolverhampton
Glasgow
Kent
Poole
Kings Lynn
Peterborough


National League (Stronger than this years points limit)
Mildenhall
Berwick
Birmingham
Eastbourne
Edinburgh
Newcastle 
Plymouth
Redcar
Scunthorpe
Leicester

 

Just because clubs are struggling now in the CL doesn't mean they can't prosper in the NL, take Eastbourne for example 

Great idea Falcon. I would have Edinburgh in the top league though so that there would still be the money spinning derbies with Glasgow. 

Different teams, different venues to visit, different towns/cities etc. Would be great!

[cowboy cookie returns?]

20 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

its not the death but a potential rebirth?

Next Season 

British League (Ran to Championship level this season)
Belle Vue
Ipswich
Sheffield
Wolverhampton
Glasgow
Kent
Poole
Kings Lynn
Peterborough


National League (Stronger than this years points limit)
Mildenhall
Berwick
Birmingham
Eastbourne
Edinburgh
Newcastle 
Plymouth
Redcar
Scunthorpe
Leicester

 

Just because clubs are struggling now in the CL doesn't mean they can't prosper in the NL, take Eastbourne for example 

Great idea i'd also just stick with the British & National League names. 

[uk_martin]

17 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

British League (Ran to Championship level this season)
Belle Vue
Ipswich
Sheffield
Wolverhampton
Glasgow
Kent
Poole
Kings Lynn
Peterborough


National League (Stronger than this years points limit)
Mildenhall
Berwick
Birmingham
Eastbourne
Edinburgh
Newcastle 
Plymouth
Redcar
Scunthorpe
Leicester

That's 19 teams...add IoW to that, and it's 20 teams.  Here's some food for thought for you.

There are currently little more than 130 riders spread out across our 3 leagues. Where are the other 10 coming from (or 3 of IoW are excluded again)? Where's the injury cover? Or are you looking at 6-man teams?

What's the plan for rider allocation? Are you planning on scrapping doubling down? (Everyone else wants to see the back of it)  Can you compel the top 63 in the averages to fill up the British League places, leaving the National League to allocate the rest? And what basis do you suggest for building teams up in each of the leagues if you have one league of big hitters and another league of low attainers?

Have you asked the fans of teams such as Plymouth, Birmingham, and Edinburgh what they think of being in the National League with a team made up of what's left at the bottom of the barrel? Birmingham for one, rejected National League speedway, Plymouth has started at the bottom and has ambitiously shown desire to move up in life and Edinburgh has known life at the top of it's own tree for a long time. You'll be asking fans in far flung places to be making sacrifices in the quality of their own entertainment, that they are expected to pay for, for the benefit of those clubs struggling elsewhere. How long before compassion fatigue sets in?

[cowboy cookie returns?]

2 hours ago, scotty2hotty said:

Rubbish, that man has done more than his fair share for British Speedway. Half the problem is 'fans' tearing British Speedway apart and the people who put blood, sweat, tears and their own money into entertaining you week in week out being criticised and ridiculed at every turn

Are you a promoter?

All that's needed in that statement is "if you don't like it p**soff"

Forgetting that the fans also put their hard earned money into the sport week in week out yet are constantly taken for a ride not given value for money & are expected just to turn up and have their feelings ignored or are just told to like it or lump it. Thousands have just walked away because of that very mindset.

Bottom line is if the sport was ran professionally giving value for money entertainment the sport wouldn't be in the mess it is.

As for fans tearing it apart the vast majority just want to see some form of acknowledgement that what's on offer is no long fit for purpose and that real change is coming. That change maybe too late to save the sport in the UK but at least bloody try!!

 I used to love my speedway never missed a home meeting. These days for many many reasons all connected with what's on offer for my spend and therefore in the control of the BSPA I attended once a year at best. 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by cowboy cookie returns?

[Sings4Speedway]

35 minutes ago, uk_martin said:

That's 19 teams...add IoW to that, and it's 20 teams.  Here's some food for thought for you.

There are currently little more than 130 riders spread out across our 3 leagues. Where are the other 10 coming from (or 3 of IoW are excluded again)? Where's the injury cover? Or are you looking at 6-man teams?

What's the plan for rider allocation? Are you planning on scrapping doubling down? (Everyone else wants to see the back of it)  Can you compel the top 63 in the averages to fill up the British League places, leaving the National League to allocate the rest? And what basis do you suggest for building teams up in each of the leagues if you have one league of big hitters and another league of low attainers?

Have you asked the fans of teams such as Plymouth, Birmingham, and Edinburgh what they think of being in the National League with a team made up of what's left at the bottom of the barrel? Birmingham for one, rejected National League speedway, Plymouth has started at the bottom and has ambitiously shown desire to move up in life and Edinburgh has known life at the top of it's own tree for a long time. You'll be asking fans in far flung places to be making sacrifices in the quality of their own entertainment, that they are expected to pay for, for the benefit of those clubs struggling elsewhere. How long before compassion fatigue sets in?

In fairness its just a decent illustration about what could be put together. The ins and outs regarding the likelihood that Edinburgh & Plymouth might want to be in the higher tier along with more likely Scunthorpe and Leicester (if one promotion can own 2 teams in the same division) whilst Kent would probably sit happier in the NL. Thats of course without the wrangling's of clubs up for sale, clubs struggling to make it to the end of season and so on. I also wouldn't bother counting IOW as they seem happier than ever doing their own thing and its more likely that others head in their direction than them returning to the BSPL fold. 

[uk_martin]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

In fairness its just a decent illustration about what could be put together.

And I'm not saying it's good or it's bad...just that to change things in any way, needs thinking through. 

BSF is full of people with "headline ideas" that they might want to drop when they see the complexities of implementing them. 

[Falcon1983]

1 hour ago, Falcon1983 said:

its not the death but a potential rebirth?

Next Season 

British League (Ran to Championship level this season)
Belle Vue
Ipswich
Sheffield
Wolverhampton
Glasgow
Kent
Poole
Kings Lynn
Peterborough


National League (Stronger than this years points limit)
Mildenhall
Berwick
Birmingham
Eastbourne
Edinburgh
Newcastle 
Plymouth
Redcar
Scunthorpe
Leicester

 

Just because clubs are struggling now in the CL doesn't mean they can't prosper in the NL, take Eastbourne for example 

There would have to be some kind of fair conversion from PL to CL most riders have an average in both, some don't so I would do a fair PL * 1.2 and go with the lowest average so if the PL *1.2 is lower than the riders current CL average go with the lowest but have a max average cap of 10.00 and any new riders come in on a 6.00 from overseas, just thrown these teams together some may be under say a 45pt limit some may we over but just a general idea of what the British League could look like IF the only professional league.

Belle Vue Aces
1. Dan Bewley
2. Richie Worrall
3. Peter Kildemand
4. Steve Worrall
5. Charles Wright
6. Jye Etheridge
7. Tom Brennan

Ipswich Witches
1. Jason Doyle
2. Cameron Heeps
3. Jason Crump
4. Jake Allen
5. Danny King
6. Anders Rowe
7. Drew Kemp

Sheffield Tigers
1. Adam Ellis
2. Josh Pickering
3. Erik Riss
4. Kyle Howarth
5. Rohan Tungate
6. James Shanes
7. Danyon Hume

Wolverhampton Wolves
1. Sam Masters
2. Broc Nicol
3. Luke Becker
4. Ryan Douglas
5. Nick Morris
6. Kye Thomson
7. Leon Flint

Glasgow Tigers
1. Craig Cook
2. Claus Vissing
3. Ulrich Ostegaard
4. Sam Jensen
5. Tobiasz Musielak
6. Justin Sedgman
7. Ricky Wells

Kent Kings
1. Jacob Thorsell 
2. Kai Huckenbeck
3. Scott Nicholls
4. Eddie Kennett
5. Troy Batchelor
6. Paul Starke
7. Michael Haertel

Poole Pirates
1. Jack Holder
2. Benjamin Basso
3. Nicolai Klindt
4. Nico Covatti
5. Chris Holder
6. Kyle Newman
7. Stefan Nielsen

Kings Lynn Stars
1. Richard Lawson
2. Ben Barker
3. Lewis Kerr
4. Thomas Jorgensen
5. Michael Palm-Toft
6. Kasper Anderson
7. Connor Mountain

Peterborough Panthers
1. Brady Kurtz
2. Hans Andersen
3. Chris Harris
4. Nikolaj Busk Jakobson
5. Neils Kristian Iversen
6. Jordan Stewart
7. Dan Thompson


British League Cup Format

British League Cup North
Belle Vue
Sheffield
Glasgow
Wolverhampton

British League Cup South
Ipswich
Kent
Kings Lynn
Peterborough

Each side rides Home & Away once so 6 "League Cup Meetings" top 2 from each League progress to Semi Finals home & away (2 meetings) and then winners into the Final over 2 legs (2 meetings) overall 6-10 meetings

Scoring done on a 3-2-1-0 basis over 13 heats

British League Format

Home & Away once so a total of 16 League Meetings

1st place directly into the Final

2nd races off against 5th, 3rd races off against 4th, winners from both matches progress to the Play-Off Final vs 1st place

Scoring done on a traditional 3-2-1-0 over 15 race format,  2pts for home Win, 1 draw, 0 for a loss, but bonus pt for winning overall on aggregate over the 2 clashes home/away

Brand New 3TT Championship

Group A
Ipswich
Kings Lynn
Peterborough

Group B
Belle Vue
Sheffield
Glasgow

Group C
Poole 
Kent
Wolverhampton

Each side in each Group Host One Round, each side track their 1-4 with their 5th rider acting as a wild-card reserve who can be used at any time

18 heat format seeing riders programmed to race 6 races each points are scored 4-3-2-0 to promote "team riding" overall team score is added over the 3 rounds, team with the most points over the 3 meetings progress to the "3TT Finals" against the winners from the other two groups, each side will then host a Grand Final meeting, same format as the group stage for the Final.

for example

Heat 1  Ipswich (Jason Doyle & Danny King) vs (Richard Lawson & Michael Palm-Toft) Kings Lynn
Heat 2  Peterborough (Chris Harris & Hans Andersen) vs (Jason Crump & Jake Allen) Ipswich
Heat 3 Kings Lynn (Thomas Jorgensen & Lewis Kerr) vs (Brady Kurtz & Neils-Kristian Iversen) Peterborough

Heat 4 Ipswich (Jason Doyle & Jason Crump) vs (Richard Lawson & Thomas Jorgensen) Kings Lynn
Heat 5 Peterborough (Brady Kurtz & Chris Harris) vs (Danny King & Jake Allen) Ipswich
Heat 6 Peterborough (Neils-Kristian Iversen & Hans Andersen) vs (Michael Palm-Toft & Lewis Kerr) Kings Lynn

Heat 7 Ipswich (Jason Doyle & Jake Allen) vs (Richard Lawson & Lewis Kerr) Kings Lynn
Heat 8 Peterborough (Brady Kurtz & Hans Andersen) vs (Jason Crump & Danny King) Ipswich
Heat 9 Peterborough (Chris Harris & Neils-Kristian Iversen) vs (Thomas Jorgensen & Michael Palm-Toft) Kings Lynn

This would be then Half-Time would then be 9 other heats with riders who took gate 1 & 3 in the first encounter moving to gates 2 & 4 and vice versa

 Other Information

British Final to become a Grand Prix style series run across 12 Championship Rounds, sizeable prize money to make British Speedway pay for British Riders

British Junior championships to be rebranded "British Rising Star Grand Prix Series" to be run across 5 Championship rounds




 

[Great Central]

2 hours ago, uk_martin said:

That's 19 teams...add IoW to that, and it's 20 teams.  Here's some food for thought for you.

There are currently little more than 130 riders spread out across our 3 leagues. Where are the other 10 coming from (or 3 of IoW are excluded again)? Where's the injury cover? Or are you looking at 6-man teams?

What's the plan for rider allocation? Are you planning on scrapping doubling down? (Everyone else wants to see the back of it)  Can you compel the top 63 in the averages to fill up the British League places, leaving the National League to allocate the rest? And what basis do you suggest for building teams up in each of the leagues if you have one league of big hitters and another league of low attainers?

Have you asked the fans of teams such as Plymouth, Birmingham, and Edinburgh what they think of being in the National League with a team made up of what's left at the bottom of the barrel? Birmingham for one, rejected National League speedway, Plymouth has started at the bottom and has ambitiously shown desire to move up in life and Edinburgh has known life at the top of it's own tree for a long time. You'll be asking fans in far flung places to be making sacrifices in the quality of their own entertainment, that they are expected to pay for, for the benefit of those clubs struggling elsewhere. How long before compassion fatigue sets in?

There are currently little more than 130 riders spread out across our 3 leagues. Where are the other 10 coming from (or 3 of IoW are excluded again)? Where's the injury cover? Or are you looking at 6-man teams? Had we been able to get the riders across to the IOW unhindered by pressure from the authorities, we would probably tried running 6 man team challenge matches. Rob Peasley Oxford TM devised a format which had some merits and looked promising enough to try out. Maybe next year. 

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Are you a promoter?

All that's needed in that statement is "if you don't like it p**soff"

Forgetting that the fans also put their hard earned money into the sport week in week out yet are constantly taken for a ride not given value for money & are expected just to turn up and have their feelings ignored or are just told to like it or lump it. Thousands have just walked away because of that very mindset.

Bottom line is if the sport was ran professionally giving value for money entertainment the sport wouldn't be in the mess it is.

As for fans tearing it apart the vast majority just want to see some form of acknowledgement that what's on offer is no long fit for purpose and that real change is coming. That change maybe too late to save the sport in the UK but at least bloody try!!

 I used to love my speedway never missed a home meeting. These days for many many reasons all connected with what's on offer for my spend and therefore in the control of the BSPA I attended once a year at best. 

 

I am like you and endless others  have given up  on the sport, still love it  BUT there is a chance to salvage something we all know how good the sport can be.On this forum there are some great ideas bandied about, do they get considered who knows? every conference come Christmas we all hope and prey maybe there is a different approach.Never happens for me this year something has to happen and things need to be put in place now not just a two day jolly up in Tenerife with a few needless rules tinkered with.

[scotty2hotty]

2 hours ago, Lord Skid said:

But it won't be Buster laying in hospital, too many times Promoters think it's a safe track to ride on, and are sadly proved wrong, should be left to the senior riders and Clark of the Course, not the Promoter, definately not the referee, most don't have a clue about track conditions.

You can always get another Rider, they're just a piece of meat, but you can't always get a pound in your back pocket.

The definition of safety has changed over the years. Now for some, unless the track is perfect, they moan. If last night at Lynn was Poland, they WOULD have ridden, no doubt in my mind. Sometimes, the tiniest spot of rain has some riders running for an extra pair of underpants. I would suggest they are in the wrong profession.  I may sound harsh, but speedway meetings have been run in far far worse conditions than last night at Lynn.    Also, when you say that the Promoter shouldn't make the final decision, no he should not, but at least give Buster the credit of knowing when a track is rideable, as he was preparing raceable tracks before some of last nights competitors were even born.

[scotty2hotty]

2 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Are you a promoter?

All that's needed in that statement is "if you don't like it p**soff"

Forgetting that the fans also put their hard earned money into the sport week in week out yet are constantly taken for a ride not given value for money & are expected just to turn up and have their feelings ignored or are just told to like it or lump it. Thousands have just walked away because of that very mindset.

Bottom line is if the sport was ran professionally giving value for money entertainment the sport wouldn't be in the mess it is.

As for fans tearing it apart the vast majority just want to see some form of acknowledgement that what's on offer is no long fit for purpose and that real change is coming. That change maybe too late to save the sport in the UK but at least bloody try!!

 I used to love my speedway never missed a home meeting. These days for many many reasons all connected with what's on offer for my spend and therefore in the control of the BSPA I attended once a year at best. 

 

At the end of the day, whatever the politics of the sport, it is and always has been, 4 blokes going 'hell for leather' racing on a track.  It is still the same product it has always been. Perhaps if we stopped worrying about the politics, the rules, the riders etc and just went back to enjoying good racing in its purest form, we might get somewhere.   I am not a Promoter myself, but had a family member who was one for many years.  I saw what it did to him and what he went through, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It is a thankless task.

[Sidney the robin]

3 minutes ago, scotty2hotty said:

At the end of the day, whatever the politics of the sport, it is and always has been, 4 blokes going 'hell for leather' racing on a track.  It is still the same product it has always been. Perhaps if we stopped worrying about the politics, the rules, the riders etc and just went back to enjoying good racing in its purest form, we might get somewhere.   I am not a Promoter myself, but had a family member who was one for many years.  I saw what it did to him and what he went through, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It is a thankless task.

Yes and most of us really appreciate that , the effort is often forgotten.Also with most decent promoters there show goes on by having loads of unsung heroes in the background doing there bit without much reward.Last night was unfortunate i have seen quite a few really wet meetings over the years go on  and they improve over the night .Sometimes though the track enables the riders only to  follow the leader with the riders often being filled in.Everyone in the sport needs to pull together  we don’t seem to have that at the moment a crying shame really.

[TINYS]

1 hour ago, scotty2hotty said:

The definition of safety has changed over the years. Now for some, unless the track is perfect, they moan. If last night at Lynn was Poland, they WOULD have ridden, no doubt in my mind. Sometimes, the tiniest spot of rain has some riders running for an extra pair of underpants. I would suggest they are in the wrong profession.  I may sound harsh, but speedway meetings have been run in far far worse conditions than last night at Lynn.    Also, when you say that the Promoter shouldn't make the final decision, no he should not, but at least give Buster the credit of knowing when a track is rideable, as he was preparing raceable tracks before some of last nights competitors were even born.

Has Buster ever ridden a speedway bike.

[scotty2hotty]

9 minutes ago, TINYS said:

Has Buster ever ridden a speedway bike.

I believe he has, yes. Second halves at Mildenhall I think.

 

[tellboy]

53 minutes ago, TINYS said:

Has Buster ever ridden a speedway bike.

Yes Buster has.Has the ref from last night?

Edited August 20, 2021 by tellboy

[TINYS]

Second halves at Mildenhall wow.

[Dave Jones]

12 minutes ago, tellboy said:

Yes Buster has.Has the ref from last night?

I seem to recall he did some quad bike racing too. I have memories of  him crashing at Brandon  & breaking his leg?

[TINYS]

So not to much present day experience then.