Daniel Smith Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Tinker said: Great idea Falcon. I would have Edinburgh in the top league though so that there would still be the money spinning derbies with Glasgow. Different teams, different venues to visit, different towns/cities etc. Would be great! It's a bit of a myth that Glasgow v Edinburgh is a money spinner. Attendances at these matches ain't what's keeping the clubs alive. Glasgow could certainly survive without Edinburgh, in the same way Edinburgh always financially struggling even with Glasgow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: It's a bit of a myth that Glasgow v Edinburgh is a money spinner. Attendances at these matches ain't what's keeping the clubs alive. Glasgow could certainly survive without Edinburgh, in the same way Edinburgh always financially struggling even with Glasgow God Daniel you are a pretty positive guy right.? or realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty2hotty Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 hour ago, TINYS said: Second halves at Mildenhall wow. So, how about you? Have you ever ridden a speedway bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty2hotty Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 hour ago, TINYS said: So not to much present day experience then. What difference does that make? Its still four blokes racing on a track. I always used to think it looked easy, until one day someone asked me to lift an engine into my boot. I couldn't move it. Yes I am a girl, but it was seriously heavy and yet they throw those bikes around the track making it look easy. Amazes me how they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 I really do not think that it matters whether Buster has recently had rider experience. In years gone by riders honed their craft and knew how to control the machine in a variety of track conditions and could work the track. Today you seem to have machines where riders are simply passengers and many are a far cry from the experience that prevailed in the 60’s through to the 80’s. Riders have the right not to take to the track but if a rider is prepared to give it a go to see if it is rideable then why not allow the trial to go ahead. Referees are unlikely to have the same experience as a rider and frankly should allow some benefit of the doubt to the riders. How often do you hear from the top riders criticism of referees who make a call but have little or no knowledge of the bikes/riders and the track conditions. No rider wants to deliberately injure a colleague or competitor but speedway is a risk sport and those that compete know the consequences of their actions. Buster, love him or hate him, knows how to prepare a track and would not go out of his way to raise the risk of injury by preparing a duff track and riders should know the bikes and arrange them set ups to suit the conditions so it is a case of give and take. Unfortunately riders today want perfect conditions and neither the sport, the weather or the tracks will rarely offer this as an option and those who are looking for the ideal world should sell their machines and look for another job and stop letting down the punters who turn out to see racing. Any right minded businessman would not invest in the current set up and if the figures stack up re bangers and stock cars where I believe most competitors pay to compete in a meeting, then why the hell run a speedway team. Get back to part timers etc and those who think they are so good enough, ply your trade in Poland or elsewhere and you will then soon receive a wake up call to your worth. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty2hotty Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: I really do not think that it matters whether Buster has recently had rider experience. In years gone by riders honed their craft and knew how to control the machine in a variety of track conditions and could work the track. Today you seem to have machines where riders are simply passengers and many are a far cry from the experience that prevailed in the 60’s through to the 80’s. Riders have the right not to take to the track but if a rider is prepared to give it a go to see if it is rideable then why not allow the trial to go ahead. Referees are unlikely to have the same experience as a rider and frankly should allow some benefit of the doubt to the riders. How often do you hear from the top riders criticism of referees who make a call but have little or no knowledge of the bikes/riders and the track conditions. No rider wants to deliberately injure a colleague or competitor but speedway is a risk sport and those that compete know the consequences of their actions. Buster, love him or hate him, knows how to prepare a track and would not go out of his way to raise the risk of injury by preparing a duff track and riders should know the bikes and arrange them set ups to suit the conditions so it is a case of give and take. Unfortunately riders today want perfect conditions and neither the sport, the weather or the tracks will rarely offer this as an option and those who are looking for the ideal world should sell their machines and look for another job and stop letting down the punters who turn out to see racing. Any right minded businessman would not invest in the current set up and if the figures stack up re bangers and stock cars where I believe most competitors pay to compete in a meeting, then why the hell run a speedway team. Get back to part timers etc and those who think they are so good enough, ply your trade in Poland or elsewhere and you will then soon receive a wake up call to your worth. What a fine post. Spot on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just a thought. Should the future of British Speedway get rid of pounds for points? Every rider gets a fixed wage for each meeting. A promoter can then budget for every fixture. under performing riders get moved on as they do now, but at least they don’t leave under a financial cloud. promoters don’t have to worry about a full 5-1 max every race that sends them financially to the cleaners. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 4 hours ago, TINYS said: So not to much present day experience then. How can he.He is about 63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 Speedway is trying to position it as a family sport, but that market is so competitive. One thing that speedway is really enjoyable at is betting. It's a sport made for gambling. Short 60 second races with lots of excitement. Greyhounds and horses have cornered the market, but speedway could come in as an outsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Deano said: Just a thought. Should the future of British Speedway get rid of pounds for points? Every rider gets a fixed wage for each meeting. A promoter can then budget for every fixture. under performing riders get moved on as they do now, but at least they don’t leave under a financial cloud. promoters don’t have to worry about a full 5-1 max every race that sends them financially to the cleaners. Been the obvious way forward for donkeys years... Teams winning leagues and then closing due to paying out far more than they expected the team to earn is simply ludicrous... The pitfalls of their system are obvious and signposted clearly... Therefore they either don't see them due to incapability, or simply revert to type and stick their head in the sand to avoid doing "something different".. It's similar how they will allow "poor" teams to exist, rather than sharing the talent around when it's clear these teams have "no chance", as all it means is that several "top teams" will then end up paying high 50/60+ point money for a good amount of home victories, and a fair few away.. When budgeting for 45 a match appears the usual M.O..... With the irony being the team doing "too well" don't get the crowds to pay for their "success" and face possible closure.. Whilst the team at the bottom keep getting beat so don't get the crowds to even pay for their "failure" and also face possible closure.. But don't forget, every team at the start of the season start off "pretty equal" as the averages say so... Another clear pitfall of the system that they use, year after year, after year, after year etc etc.. (File away with points money as being obvious and signposted clearly)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 While an air of doom and gloom settles over speedway, I'd remind everyone that one track seems to be doing very well indeed. It might be a coincidence, but its the only one operating on a commercial basis outside of BSPL control. Step forward Isle of Wight, Barry Bishop and Martin Widman 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 50 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: While an air of doom and gloom settles over speedway, I'd remind everyone that one track seems to be doing very well indeed. It might be a coincidence, but its the only one operating on a commercial basis outside of BSPL control. Step forward Isle of Wight, Barry Bishop and Martin Widman Just a complete coincidence HT I am sure.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said: While an air of doom and gloom settles over speedway, I'd remind everyone that one track seems to be doing very well indeed. It might be a coincidence, but its the only one operating on a commercial basis outside of BSPL control. Step forward Isle of Wight, Barry Bishop and Martin Widman I do think they have a great market corner. Daytrippers & holiday makers don't have much to do on the island, speedway is a good distraction attraction. To get a good feel of how thing's work, we need to see another 1 or 2 club copy IOW's model over a season or 2. Somewhere like Berwick & Newcastle, financially struggling clubs would be an interesting ones. Absolute polar opposites to IOW. What works for IOW probably wouldn't work anywhere else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 17 hours ago, scotty2hotty said: At the end of the day, whatever the politics of the sport, it is and always has been, 4 blokes going 'hell for leather' racing on a track. It is still the same product it has always been. Perhaps if we stopped worrying about the politics, the rules, the riders etc and just went back to enjoying good racing in its purest form, we might get somewhere. I am not a Promoter myself, but had a family member who was one for many years. I saw what it did to him and what he went through, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It is a thankless task. The "raw product" is still brilliant for me... It's just the infrastructure used to put this "raw product" on display that's completely unfit for purpose nonsense, (in the UK), and completely undermines the very thing that should be getting sold to the public.. You can see on Facebook and Twitter pages how many "friends", and "followers", (many of whom are local), that the tracks have.. Often indeed three or four times the actual crowd levels who turn up.. These are the potential audience just waiting to be enticed back, or engaged to turn up more regularly than they do.. Bottom line is that there still is a very large following for the sport out there.. They just dont all attend enough of the time, or even at all... That's down to disillusionment in the way the sport is presented in the majority of cases I would suggest, rather than not loving the spectacle of the racing.. I can almost guarantee that if UK Speedway ended tomorrow, Premier Sports and even Eleven Sports and NSport Poland would get a great many subscriptions from UK fans to get their fix.. "Make it actually mean something and they will come" to paraphrase an old baseball film... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHarris Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 Random thought but have the bikes just simply too fast now? The bikes have evolved but the tracks have stayed the same. You wouldn't have a modern day F1 car racing around a 1950's circuit layout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty2hotty Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, mikebv said: The "raw product" is still brilliant for me... It's just the infrastructure used to put this "raw product" on display that's completely unfit for purpose nonsense, (in the UK), and completely undermines the very thing that should be getting sold to the public.. You can see on Facebook and Twitter pages how many "friends", and "followers", (many of whom are local), that the tracks have.. Often indeed three or four times the actual crowd levels who turn up.. These are the potential audience just waiting to be enticed back, or engaged to turn up more regularly than they do.. Bottom line is that there still is a very large following for the sport out there.. They just dont all attend enough of the time, or even at all... That's down to disillusionment in the way the sport is presented in the majority of cases I would suggest, rather than not loving the spectacle of the racing.. I can almost guarantee that if UK Speedway ended tomorrow, Premier Sports and even Eleven Sports and NSport Poland would get a great many subscriptions from UK fans to get their fix.. "Make it actually mean something and they will come" to paraphrase an old baseball film... I work at a lot if these tracks doing the track shops, so I see a lot of people. This year i have seen many new fans, a lot with children and a lot of returning fans. One guy came into the shop at Leicester last week and said he hadn't been since Blackbird Road closed. He had watched it on TV and enjoyed it, but thought he would come and see it live again. He was almost in tears of delight at the spectacle he had witnessed and said nothing beats live speedway and he had caught the bug again and would be back next week. What I'm saying, is that new people don't care about the politics of the sport or the rules, they just love the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 Cannot blame Buster for wanting to offload the speedways at KL and Pboro. Probably deserves a good long and happy retirement free from the non stop grief securing dates at the Eof E showground, ( although he seems to have a very good side there) and the constant grief at KL from riders who don’t like the track wet damp or dry. StockCars at Saddlebow Road would fund his retirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 24 minutes ago, scotty2hotty said: I work at a lot if these tracks doing the track shops, so I see a lot of people. This year i have seen many new fans, a lot with children and a lot of returning fans. One guy came into the shop at Leicester last week and said he hadn't been since Blackbird Road closed. He had watched it on TV and enjoyed it, but thought he would come and see it live again. He was almost in tears of delight at the spectacle he had witnessed and said nothing beats live speedway and he had caught the bug again and would be back next week. What I'm saying, is that new people don't care about the politics of the sport or the rules, they just love the experience. Great to hear .. But unfortunately there are clearly not enough of them to cover for those fans who still attend, but not regularly enough, and especially those many thousands who have 'lapsed' in the past decade or so, but are still very much followers of Speedway.. They are the biggest single group of followers Speedway has for me.. Several times larger than the die hards who are there every week or even the non regulars who go now and again.. Getting those followers back who rarely or never attend a UK match but will pay plenty to watch FIM meetings over here and abroad, and willingly cough up subscriptions to various TV companies, is fundamental for me if the sport wants to carry on in it's current guise.. However lets be honest when you have to almost "ignore" the infrastructure of what is supposedly a team sport, then you will sadly struggle to ever be on a winner wont you? The positive though is that a club like Leicester is a perfect example for me of a track riding on it's best night to get a crowd, and in a division that can be funded by that crowd level.. Struggling on a Thursday in the top tier, but doing well on a Saturday in the 2nd.. When more potential punters can come to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: I do think they have a great market corner. Daytrippers & holiday makers don't have much to do on the island, speedway is a good distraction attraction. To get a good feel of how thing's work, we need to see another 1 or 2 club copy IOW's model over a season or 2. Somewhere like Berwick & Newcastle, financially struggling clubs would be an interesting ones. Absolute polar opposites to IOW. What works for IOW probably wouldn't work anywhere else. You do have a case, particularly this year. Eastbourne aren't much different though, are they ? Unless you have actually experienced a night at Isle of Wight, you can't really comment on just how customer focussed they are. Believe me, nowhere else comes remotely close. Edited August 21, 2021 by Halifaxtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, scotty2hotty said: I work at a lot if these tracks doing the track shops, so I see a lot of people. This year i have seen many new fans, a lot with children and a lot of returning fans. One guy came into the shop at Leicester last week and said he hadn't been since Blackbird Road closed. He had watched it on TV and enjoyed it, but thought he would come and see it live again. He was almost in tears of delight at the spectacle he had witnessed and said nothing beats live speedway and he had caught the bug again and would be back next week. What I'm saying, is that new people don't care about the politics of the sport or the rules, they just love the experience. The problem is these new fans become regulars who read the programme, the Star and forums such as this. They learn about the constant rule breaking or reinterpretation of the rules. They visit a track, wait in the rain for an hour and then get told it’s off, etc, etc, etc. UK speedway hasn’t just lost fans, it’s actively driven them away. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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