BHM - Aces/Wolves double header.

[cityrebel]

20 minutes ago, mikebv said:

When those two were there you had some of the best racing I have witnessed anywhere at the Wolves v Aces clashes..

Joe Screen, Bobby Ott, Shawn Moran, Kelly Moran and Jason Lyones etc were great to watch around Monmore with the outside being the main overtaking  line followed..

Sadly now it's pretty much square off the corner to make a long straight, and power up the inside coming out of the turns..

 

I saw a decent meeting at Kent this afternoon, but only managed about 10 heats of Wolves v Belle Vue before dozing off. It was pretty tame stuff.

[Wolfie456]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Pretty poor meeting sad to say in front of a decent crowd. Usual Monmore fodder with lesser quality riders dialled in and beating visiting riders of a higher calibre. Trick track.

But no bumps like your roller coaster track and don't say its improved.

[acef]

Not the worst meeting for Monmore. It’s a difficult track and isn’t suited to today’s rider. That said I’ve seen worse over the last few years here.

BV have an issue in the middle of this team. Both Worralls have been poor, and today was the worst I’ve seen from Steve for a long, long time. He was nowhere near quick enough at the NSS and for whatever reason that carried onto the return fixture on a completely different track which has previously suited him. There are no reasons sometimes, whenever he puts a BV race jacket on he suddenly becomes an amateur rider. Odd.

Bewley was excellent across the day and only had one blip off gate 3 which clearly wasn’t working. He looked down on power in heat 13, I don’t know if anyone noticed that but it was weird. I almost felt like fatigue was kicking in, he was struggling to hang onto the bike. Maybe just me.

Wolves look very good, but can certainly be beaten. They will pick us in the semi, which will probably be the end of us. If they were to pick someone else I’d actually fancy us to make the final.

[Garry1603]

Well; done to Wolves, fully deserved the two wins. 

As a Belle Vue fan I was happier with the away performance,  All day the Wolves riders looked capable of winning races whereas only the Aces top three were really competitive (but at least Brennan tried hard). The 'engine room' of the Aces failed again I'm afraid and some of the management decisions were frankly strange. Worrall's lunge at the  end was borne out of frustration after an appalling day for him, I hope he learns from it.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Garry1603

[Bagpuss]

Didn't watch this evening but went to the NSS earlier in the day and thoroughly enjoyed it even though there was only really one team in the contest.  Some terrific racing in front of what I'd describe as a fairly modest crowd, thought the two stands would be packed out. Easy to pick out the standout performers from the score chart but I was really impressed with the two rising stars, they looked like they belonged there today and both got properly stuck in. A big tick for the scheme.

If I was Belle Vue I'd be sitting Worrall down and asking why he has scored so well for Poole this year but served that load of pony up today. He was awful at BV and I see he faired even worse tonight.  Not good enough. 

[stevebrum]

7 hours ago, Phil The Ace said:

99.9% if not 100% of aces fans would have said lawson is the better option at NSS. 

 

As it turned out, Lawson never show up which was very strange 

Most Aces fans will think twice about Lawson being a ‘track specialist’ again tho I’d imagine. 

2 hours ago, Bruiser said:

a reserve wins matches and always has done

Aces out scored Wolves reserves 12 -10

1 hour ago, Bruiser said:

you cannot have 2 of the top 5 perform like Worrall and Etheridge when you haven’t got a race winning reserve and expect to win matches

 

 

NBJ won a race, so did Douglas. 

[Beowulf]

2 hours ago, R87 said:

Nothing to do with the bikes.  Even when you had the likes of Ermolenko and Correy riding there it churned out boring racing

You really don't know what you are talking about. When Doc Bridgett was doing the track we won multiple best track of the year, as voted by the riders. I will admit it has been a loss since he  retired. But when Sam was riding it was the most breathtaking riding I have seen anywhere, bar none. As an aside which team do you support, or would you rather not say ? Is criticism only allowed in one direction ?

Edited August 31, 2021 by Beowulf

[Trees]

There's no doubt that Wolves is a tricky track to race and over the years it has paid dividends but there's no doubting this team who have obviously been performing home and away!

[LisaColette]

9 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

Didn't watch this evening but went to the NSS earlier in the day and thoroughly enjoyed it even though there was only really one team in the contest.  Some terrific racing in front of what I'd describe as a fairly modest crowd, thought the two stands would be packed out. Easy to pick out the standout performers from the score chart but I was really impressed with the two rising stars, they looked like they belonged there today and both got properly stuck in. A big tick for the scheme.

If I was Belle Vue I'd be sitting Worrall down and asking why he has scored so well for Poole this year but served that load of pony up today. He was awful at BV and I see he faired even worse tonight.  Not good enough. 

Tbh, he should do better for Poole than BVas it is a slightly easier league.(but obv not this much difference) Watching him at Poole 9 times out of 10 he makes the gate and he is away, also has a good partnership with Stef Nielsen. They seem to know where each other are going to be on the track. Even if he doesn't gate he seems to just stay on the outside and use the grip there to pass others. He beat Ryan Douglas at Leicester but then I guess Leicester is an easier track to ride than Wolves.

Maybe he uses different bikes for different leagues? But I'm sure it's not as simple as switching to his 'Poole' bike. I think Middlo and Lemo get on okay so they might be talking about it anyway. 

[mikebv]

3 minutes ago, lisa-colette said:

Tbh, he should do better for Poole than BVas it is a slightly easier league.(but obv not this much difference) Watching him at Poole 9 times out of 10 he makes the gate and he is away, also has a good partnership with Stef Nielsen. They seem to know where each other are going to be on the track. Even if he doesn't gate he seems to just stay on the outside and use the grip there to pass others. He beat Ryan Douglas at Leicester but then I guess Leicester is an easier track to ride than Wolves.

Maybe he uses different bikes for different leagues? But I'm sure it's not as simple as switching to his 'Poole' bike. I think Middlo and Lemo get on okay so they might be talking about it anyway. 

He seems to get beaten quite a lot by opposition second strings and reserves when riding for the Aces..

Maybe its because these riders are of a higher standard than second strings and reserves in the 2nd Div? 

The heat leaders are pretty much the same in both leagues, but the next level down are better maybe?

Thus he runs a few wins or seconds giving him confidence in the 2nd Div, whereby (usually from what I have seen), seldom wins his first race in Div 1, and more than should probably happen, doesnt even get second..

Him, his brother and Wright do seem to often be on the wrong end of a lot of heat losses in Div 1 due to their poor win ratio, and to compound it, dont always get the second place to reduce the impact, and actually run too many lasts...

Hence the Aces invariably lose the meetings they do in the "engine room" of the team..

 

[wtf]

11 hours ago, Col said:

The meeting this morning was good. Pearson didn't need any spin, they should have shown more of it.

Monmore can produce good racing but you need riders who can ride it, such riders are dwindling fast as the bikes get quicker and emphasis is on Poland is the place to be.  Except for the current Wolves septet all the others I'd put in that category currently ride for Peterborough.  Kurtz was much better than I expected tonight, thought he'd ride it like Batchelor does(n't).

You just can't stop yourself can you?  The one place Batchelor can ride is Monmore. 11+1 and 12+1 this year. I'd be the first to agree if you said he couldn't ride Sheffield.

[scoobydoo]

Jye Etheridge is the opposite to Steve Worrall his best performances have been on the whole for Belle Vue not Berwick, 

Worrall most likely rides better for Poole especially at Poole as he knows where the bumps and holes are and how to avoid them

[LisaColette]

5 minutes ago, scoobydoo said:

Jye Etheridge is the opposite to Steve Worrall his best performances have been on the whole for Belle Vue not Berwick, 

Worrall most likely rides better for Poole especially at Poole as he knows where the bumps and holes are and how to avoid them

And when he gets double figures at away tracks at Leicester and so on, can't blame Poole bumps for that. Poole was good and smooth first few months, only last 3 weeks it's been bad. When Hans Andersen rode for Poole he said he liked the 'bumps' as it was home track advantage. 

[scoobydoo]

3 minutes ago, lisa-colette said:

And when he gets double figures at away tracks at Leicester and so on, can't blame Poole bumps for that. Poole was good and smooth first few months, only last 3 weeks it's been bad. When Hans Andersen rode for Poole he said he liked the 'bumps' as it was home track 

Looking good for Poole to finish as the 7th best team in the UK with there home track advantage 

Is it true that the GB girl who won the gold medal in Tokyo for BMX has booked Pooles track for her training sessions 

 

[IainB]

1 hour ago, lisa-colette said:

but then I guess Leicester is an easier track to ride than Wolves.

I don't know for sure as I've never ridden either, but it certainly doesn't look easier to rider Leicester's rollercoaster

59 minutes ago, mikebv said:

He seems to get beaten quite a lot by opposition second strings and reserves when riding for the Aces..

Maybe its because these riders are of a higher standard than second strings and reserves in the 2nd Div? 

The heat leaders are pretty much the same in both leagues, but the next level down are better maybe?

Thus he runs a few wins or seconds giving him confidence in the 2nd Div, whereby (usually from what I have seen), seldom wins his first race in Div 1, and more than should probably happen, doesnt even get second..

Him, his brother and Wright do seem to often be on the wrong end of a lot of heat losses in Div 1 due to their poor win ratio, and to compound it, dont always get the second place to reduce the impact, and actually run too many lasts...

Hence the Aces invariably lose the meetings they do in the "engine room" of the team..

 

I think the "problem" is, there is no home track advantage at BV, there's no trick bend or hidden holes that a rider can master or avoid. Since the move to the NSS I don't think BV have had any "track specialist", Criag Cook & Matej Zagar all had their iffy meetings. The closest you've had/got is Dan Bewley but as he's gotten better the standard of opposition has gotten worse so he may be flattering to deceive a bit, his average is only 8.5, I'm not sure what his home average is though. In fact looking at the GSA's Dan is actually top of the averages on this number, back in the day if you were over 9 you were a solid heat leader. Looking at the averages of all of the riders in the PL it actually looks like quite a competitive league. You've got to remember that Steve Worrall is really only a decent 2nd string, that's been thrust into a heat leader position only because the standard of the league is at such a low. I'm not sure

[mikebv]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

I don't know for sure as I've never ridden either, but it certainly doesn't look easier to rider Leicester's rollercoaster

I think the "problem" is, there is no home track advantage at BV, there's no trick bend or hidden holes that a rider can master or avoid. Since the move to the NSS I don't think BV have had any "track specialist", Criag Cook & Matej Zagar all had their iffy meetings. The closest you've had/got is Dan Bewley but as he's gotten better the standard of opposition has gotten worse so he may be flattering to deceive a bit, his average is only 8.5, I'm not sure what his home average is though. In fact looking at the GSA's Dan is actually top of the averages on this number, back in the day if you were over 9 you were a solid heat leader. Looking at the averages of all of the riders in the PL it actually looks like quite a competitive league. You've got to remember that Steve Worrall is really only a decent 2nd string, that's been thrust into a heat leader position only because the standard of the league is at such a low. I'm not sure

Take Dan and Jack Holder out and the league is pretty much made up of riders who ten or so years ago would have been "second string" level, with a few being "third heat leaders" at some clubs.

With even Dan and Jack themselves being probably third heat leader standard at most..

Up and coming lads riding alongside two big hitters per team..

Now clear No1's...

Nowadays the level from top to bottom of the team (even with RS's) is much narrower than used to be the case, hence averages are lower as a great many riders can beat each other from one night to the next...

Maybe just being down to something as gate positions given they are so many so very similar in capability..

One night you beat the same rider because you had the best gate, then next he beats you for the same reason..

Last night off graveyard gate 3 Dan Bewley couldn't get near his opponents..

And given riders race so often, a poor run is now magnified as you could have six matches in just one week

 Thus highlighting your issues..

Whereas you may only used to have a couple of meetings a week in the past, giving you time to sort problems out..

 

[LisaColette]

3 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Take Dan and Jack Holder out and the league is pretty much made up of riders who ten or so years ago would have been "second string" level, with a few being "third heat leaders" at some clubs.

With even Dan and Jack themselves being probably third heat leader standard at most..

Up and coming lads riding alongside two big hitters per team..

Now clear No1's...

Nowadays the level from top to bottom of the team (even with RS's) is much narrower than used to be the case, hence averages are lower as a great many riders can beat each other from one night to the next...

Maybe just being down to something as gate positions given they are so many so very similar in capability..

One night you beat the same rider because you had the best gate, then next he beats you for the same reason..

Last night off graveyard gate 3 Dan Bewley couldn't get near his opponents..

And given riders race so often, a poor run is now magnified as you could have six matches in just one week

 Thus highlighting your issues..

Whereas you may only used to have a couple of meetings a week in the past, giving you time to sort problems out..

 

Sometimes it is good not to overthink it and just concentrate on the next meeting (depends on the person). Steve has been busy recently Poole last Weds and Sun, 2 for BV yesterday, Brum Weds, Sheffield Thurs, Poole Friday! Busy time!!

[Steve Shovlar]

51 minutes ago, scoobydoo said:

Looking good for Poole to finish as the 7th best team in the UK with there home track advantage 

Is it true that the GB girl who won the gold medal in Tokyo for BMX has booked Pooles track for her training sessions 

 

Joking aside, this Poole team would be challenging In the premier playoffs.  Perhaps not quite as strong as Wolves or Peterborough but better than the rest.

[hagonshocker]

32 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Joking aside, this Poole team would be challenging In the premier playoffs.  Perhaps not quite as strong as Wolves or Peterborough but better than the rest.

Holder Batchelor Ellis Howarth Pickering top 5 ....no not stronger than Tigers in particular especially as Sheffield have Stefan Nielsen at reserve and he's in Pirates 1-5 but certainly would agree about being stronger than Ipswich etc 

Edited August 31, 2021 by hagonshocker

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Joking aside, this Poole team would be challenging In the premier playoffs.  Perhaps not quite as strong as Wolves or Peterborough but better than the rest.

Well as they are all pretty much the same riders, there cannot be much difference between the two leagues, therefore quite possibly a Div 2 team with three Div 1 Heat Leaders wont be "too far away" if they rode as Poole in Div 1.

However..

Having individuals racing against themselves in the same race for both teams, might even be a bit far fetched for even UK Speedway to think up a regulation which allows it... 

Wouldnt surprise if they have thought about it though... 

Edited August 31, 2021 by mikebv