National League 2021 - has it been abandoned?

[cityrebel]

21 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

Just to correct you there, I dont suggest that every team should have second teams. But it's an option that could be further evaluated.. My personal thoughts is that I know that it wouldn't work partly due to rider numbers but also, like always (and 2nd halve were supposed to happen this year too) second team racing isnt valued by many promoters sadly leaving those who can see its potential out on a limb with next to no support.

 

I think @arnieg said earlier that every british rider in the top two leagues, except Scott Nicholls had gone through the third tier of the sport. I guess if what you say is correct that only 10% of NDL riders make a carrer out of the sport then our higher leagues need to consider the options that are opened for UK rider, vice international riders for our UK based teams.

Did you enjoy your afternoon at Lydd yesterday Barry. It was a bit chilly, but a good day out.

[barrybishop]

10 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Did you enjoy your afternoon at Lydd yesterday Barry. It was a bit chilly, but a good day out.

yes really enjoyed it. I always learn things when I visit tracks across the country and having ridden a Lydd over the years it was great to observe and learn. All in all, a great day out for me and a pleasure to watch many of the riders that have helped us on the Island this year on their local track.

Malc and his team do a great job down there. I particularly liked his bowser set up and is something that I am sure we could do on the island as well to help us with the track in the build up to race day.

What I didnt like was the M25 on the way back... took forever, but was well worth the trip.

[IainB]

1 hour ago, barrybishop said:

I think @arnieg said earlier that every british rider in the top two leagues, except Scott Nicholls had gone through the third tier of the sport. I guess if what you say is correct that only 10% of NDL riders make a carrer out of the sport then our higher leagues need to consider the options that are opened for UK rider, vice international riders for our UK based teams.

It's not very scientific but here are the British riders used in the PL & CL in 2021:

1	Adam Ellis
2	Anders Rowe
3	Ben Barker
4	Charles Wright
5	Chris Harris
6	Connor Mountain
7	Craig Cook
8	Daniel Bewley
9	Danny King
10	Danyon Hume
11	Drew Kemp
12	Jordan Palin
13	Kyle Howarth
14	Leon Flint
15	Lewis Bridger	R
16	Lewis Kerr
17	Paul Starke
18	Richard Lawson
19	Richie Worrall
20	Stefan Nielsen
21	Steve Worrall
22	Tom Brennan
1	Adam Roynon
2	Alfie Bowtell
3	Archie Freeman
4	Ashley Morris
5	Ben Morley
6	Dan Gilkes
7	Dan Thompson
8	Edward Kennett
9	Henry Atkins
10	Jack Parkinson-Blackburn
11	Jack Smith
12	Jack Thomas
13	Jake Knight
14	Jake Mulford
15	James Sarjeant
16	James Shanes
17	James Wright
18	Jason Edwards
19	Joe Alcock
20	Joe Lawlor
21	Joe Thompson
22	Jordan Jenkins
23	Josh Auty
24	Josh Bates	R
25	Kyle Bickley
26	Kyle Newman
27	Luke Crang
28	Luke Ruddick
29	Max Clegg
30	Nathan Ablitt
31	Nathan Greaves	R
32	Paul Hurry	R
33	Ryan Kinsley
34	Simon Lambert
35	Tom Bacon	R
36	William Lawson	R

At least 6 of these riders have "retired". There's 42 team places available in the PL and 84 team places available in the CL. You could probably thin down the CL list as not all of these riders will have done anywhere near a full season.

[Tsunami]

On 10/25/2021 at 9:29 AM, iainb said:

It's not very scientific but here are the British riders used in the PL & CL in 2021:

1	Adam Ellis
2	Anders Rowe
3	Ben Barker
4	Charles Wright
5	Chris Harris
6	Connor Mountain
7	Craig Cook
8	Daniel Bewley
9	Danny King
10	Danyon Hume
11	Drew Kemp
12	Jordan Palin
13	Kyle Howarth
14	Leon Flint
15	Lewis Bridger	R
16	Lewis Kerr
17	Paul Starke
18	Richard Lawson
19	Richie Worrall
20	Stefan Nielsen
21	Steve Worrall
22	Tom Brennan
1	Adam Roynon
2	Alfie Bowtell
3	Archie Freeman
4	Ashley Morris
5	Ben Morley
6	Dan Gilkes
7	Dan Thompson
8	Edward Kennett
9	Henry Atkins
10	Jack Parkinson-Blackburn
11	Jack Smith
12	Jack Thomas
13	Jake Knight
14	Jake Mulford
15	James Sarjeant
16	James Shanes
17	James Wright
18	Jason Edwards
19	Joe Alcock
20	Joe Lawlor
21	Joe Thompson
22	Jordan Jenkins
23	Josh Auty
24	Josh Bates	R
25	Kyle Bickley
26	Kyle Newman
27	Luke Crang
28	Luke Ruddick
29	Max Clegg
30	Nathan Ablitt
31	Nathan Greaves	R
32	Paul Hurry	R
33	Ryan Kinsley
34	Simon Lambert
35	Tom Bacon	R
36	William Lawson	R

At least 6 of these riders have "retired". There's 42 team places available in the PL and 84 team places available in the CL. You could probably thin down the CL list as not all of these riders will have done anywhere near a full season.

I think that :-

Edward Kennett, Joe Alcock, Luke Ruddick and possibly Joe Lawlor could also be added to the list of retired riders. Will Lawson was dropped, but still rides in the Armadale Devils team.

[teaboy279]

On 10/28/2021 at 1:22 PM, Tsunami said:

I think that :-

Edward Kennett, Joe Alcock, Luke Ruddick and possibly Joe Lawlor could also be added to the list of retired riders. Will Lawson was dropped, but still rides in the Armadale Devils team.

Not sure Kennett has packed up, think he just got tired of riding for free this year.

[gazzac]

15 minutes ago, teaboy279 said:

Not sure Kennett has packed up, think he just got tired of riding for free this year.

To be honest he didn't help the cause much at home, he was pretty poor and looked like he should retire really, certainly wasn't a No1, and was far off the best at 3 or 4 when he dropped down.

Edited October 29, 2021 by gazzac

[25yearfan]

I've said all this before but it is still very relevant.

 

The Louis/Godfrey vision of the 3rd Division is a novice League full of wobblers, no experienced riders and no standalone tracks which is so far from it where it needs to be in reality. Also forget about the pairs half hearted and aborted "British Junior" League.

 

In 2021 the gap between the 3rd Division and the 2nd Division was way too big which is a major stumbling block to riders trying to make their way up the ladder unless as Barry Bishop stated they are exceptional talents that would have made it whatever system was in place. See this is where Chris Louis (like his father before him) doesn't "get it" cause he was an exceptional rider who became an 8 point 2nd tier rider after only one season. What British speedway has lacked since the 90's and it was in decline then was numerous British 1st tier and 2nd tier league journeymen, guys who wern't ever going to be World Champions but were regular, loyal servants to teams and being home grown local people took more interest in going to their nearest track. I saw this first hand from first watching at the Firs Stadium Norwich then the 1970's halcyon days at Ipswich, King's Lynn and Mildenhall. Locally based competitors is major reason why stock car racing is more popular in East Anglia than what speedway is.   

 

The 3rd Division has over its various guises since its 1994 formation been a less choppy water for new tracks to test the water, former tracks to reopen and tracks struggling in higher Leagues to run at a financially viable and competitive level. This is what disappoints me about Rob Godfreys stance on the 3rd tier cause he only reopened Scunthorpe  (an area that struggled to run viable speedway in the 70's and 80's )in the 00's when it offered the beforementioned values. The likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne only kept going a few years ago because the 3rd tier was in place and offered a viable set up. Mildenhall I doubt would have ever reopened to speedway had the 3rd Division not been around. At this moment in time I suspect more than half the current teams running in the Championship struggle to be viable and would be better suited to racing at a cheaper amateur level.

The 3rd tier doesn't need to be turned into a complete novice League because you already had successful junior Leagues below it in the well run Midland and Northern Junior Leagues to cater for novice riders. 

 

Experienced 3rd tier journeymen riders who won't ever make the regular step up to higher League like Luke Priest was in the past and Connor Coles is shouldn't be blocked from riding in the League if they wish to race cause they will provide better learning opportunities for newcomers racing against them than just racing against fellow novice riders and can provide good racing. Obviously there should be limits on the number of "old hands" in 3rd tier teams but wiping them out completely would be counter productive.

 

What needs to happen is the top 2 Leagues merge into a bigger top flight at a level slightly better than the current Championship while those 2nd tier clubs that can't make it pay to drop down into a new 2nd tier that is at a level inbetween the current Championship and National League. Then 2 Junior Leagues below this level called the Northern League and the Southern League be formed organised in a similar way to what the well run Midland and Northern Leagues were.  

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by 25yearfan

[arnieg]

Well it looks like it will be incomplete as Kent v Armadale is off with no plans for rearrangement.

[scotchopper]

From watching the Dale Devils this season the NDL is a significant steup from what the NJL was before, no idea about the MJL as never seen any.  I think it was really starting to benefit the young lads and it is a far different scenario being the main event starting at 7.30 rather than an afterthought in the 2nd half.  Unfortunately the amount of time between meetings this season meant a lot of momentum was lost.   9 matches over 7 months is difficult although it would also be a challenge for tracks with 2 teams to do much more.  Kent being the extreme example what would have happened if they had been more successfull in the cup or got to the play offs in the Championship.

[cityrebel]

11 hours ago, arnieg said:

Well it looks like it will be incomplete as Kent v Armadale is off with no plans for rearrangement.

It was always a gamble to arrange this fixture for the 31st.

[topsoil]

6 hours ago, scotchopper said:

From watching the Dale Devils this season the NDL is a significant steup from what the NJL was before, no idea about the MJL as never seen any.  I think it was really starting to benefit the young lads and it is a far different scenario being the main event starting at 7.30 rather than an afterthought in the 2nd half.  Unfortunately the amount of time between meetings this season meant a lot of momentum was lost.   9 matches over 7 months is difficult although it would also be a challenge for tracks with 2 teams to do much more.  Kent being the extreme example what would have happened if they had been more successfull in the cup or got to the play offs in the Championship.

Same applies to Berwick this season, their riders got significantly more track time and developed a lot more than they would in the NJL. The National League is a lot better standard the the NJL and i've yet to see a 'wobbler' as one has said on here. Hopefully both teams back in the National League next year.

[IainB]

14 hours ago, arnieg said:

Well it looks like it will be incomplete as Kent v Armadale is off with no plans for rearrangement.

Haven't you heard... Speedway is running into November now 

[Sings4Speedway]

So with Kent out (unless a fruit loop is found), Eastbourne delayed until 2023 and no guarantee of NL. At present 5 teams remain, the champs Mildenhall as a standalone side and 4 second teams (although Belle Vue do run as individual meetings and not 2nd halves).

The question remains is a 5 team league visble in any way?  Will the 4 man PJL re-surface and the NDL be dropped altogether? Whatever the outcome its going to be a hard winter for riders and fans alike.

[Fortythirtyeight]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:33 PM, Sings4Speedway said:

So with Kent out (unless a fruit loop is found), Eastbourne delayed until 2023 and no guarantee of NL. At present 5 teams remain, the champs Mildenhall as a standalone side and 4 second teams (although Belle Vue do run as individual meetings and not 2nd halves).

The question remains is a 5 team league visble in any way?  Will the 4 man PJL re-surface and the NDL be dropped altogether? Whatever the outcome its going to be a hard winter for riders and fans alike.

It’s ‘visible ‘ but not viable.

The PJL was never ever going to happen and didn’t.

The NDL is a much needed stepping stone and should be an essential discussion at the AGM , which it sounds like has almost been completed via zoom meetings , but you can’t force clubs into entering it as most clubs simply can’t afford to run two teams, some can’t afford to run one !

Doubt many riders in the CL and Premiership are worried as 85% will already have been approached, but NDL standard riders will be scratching their heads as to where there might be a viable team place available.