National League 2021 - has it been abandoned?

[25yearfan]

Increasing the gap between the National League and the two higher leagues will make it harder for riders to progress!

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, gazzac said:

 

It was a perfect product, entertaining and brought on the likes of Brennen, Kemp, Flint, Palin, Thomas etc etc, so did a pretty good job at the development, and can't see the conveyor belt of talent continuing at that level.It was basically abandoned at the outset this year by the powers that be.

It wasn't a perfect product for the top two leagues as it showed up all their own lack of perfection...

A very reasonable entrance fee delivered value for money,  watching riders willing to race on tracks less than 'spot on', who gave every race their all, with many just pleased to have the opportunity provided...

And (no disrespect meant), given it was the 3rd Division,  if it was a couple of contrived septets on display that you watched, it didn't really matter, as you weren't paying 'top dollar' to watch your Speedway..

And the development of the riders and the entertainment they produced was the key to your enjoyment...

It was probably "too good" an overall packaged product, which the top two leagues (which are pretty much one and the same) couldn't compete with...

Hence they took the steps they did...

Edited October 1, 2021 by mikebv

[25yearfan]

100%!

 

My local National League track Mildenhall is almost perfectly functional and financially viable in the 3rd tier with its healthy crowds for the level they run at. I get the impression that the powers that be would rather Mildenhall stepped up into the 2nd tier but that wouldn't work out as costs would go through the roof, admission prices would have to go up but crowds probably wouldn't go up to subsidise the increases. And I doubt racing the racing would get any better cause race times would sometimes be 2 seconds quicker which would mean race times of under 50 seconds which would be a blink of an eye and make overtaking even harder! - Indeed with out the 3rd tier Mildenhall speedway would of probably finished permanently in 1992 when the track folded mid season in the 2nd Division and the track tarmaced over for stock cars.

 

The reality is in present times most tracks in the 2nd tier don't get big enough crowds to afford to pay riders a professional wage. In fact most of them would be better of racing at 3rd tier level where the crowds would be more viable in terms of the reduced costs.

 

Rob Godfrey has a short memory cause if there wasn't a 3rd Division when he got Scunthorpe going in 2005 its doubtful he would have even tried cause reopening Scunny in one of the two professional Leagues, a former failed speedway centre that failed to attract viable crowds in the better supported times of the 1980's would have been a massive gamble!

I also suspect Godfrey is a tad bit oblivious to the struggles of other tracks in the Championship because his team is subsidised by being able to have almost unlimited access to his track which means he can put on lots of practises, amateur meetings, stock car meets and the venues available for private hire. 

The likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne only kept going a few years back when they had to drop down into the less expensive 3rd Division.

The modern 3rd Division in its numerous guises has been one of the best innovations in British speedway ever since it was formed in 1994, in fact its something that would of helped speedway if it had been formed in the late 70's. - I suspect quite a few of the track closures from the late 70's to the early 90's may have been prevented had a 3rd Division been in place then?

Apart from offering up and coming riders a constructive 6-7 person team League to race in the 3rd tier has been a viable water in which to reopen former tracks and for new venues to test the water. Also competent riders not good enough for higher Leagues but are still capable of providing good racing and passing on experience to young riders have benefited from the 3rd tier. 

 

Basically all this leads me to conclude that British speedway needs to go to 2 Leagues next season. -

 

The top League called the British League will be an amalgamation of clubs in the current Premiership and Championship that can afford to run professional speedway at a level akin to the current 2nd tier. - This would be at most 15 of the tracks at present I suspect?

The new 2nd tier to be called the National League to be a semi professional League stronger than current National League but not by a massive amount. This would contain the likes of Birmingham, Newcastle, Berwick, Kent,  and maybe Scunthorpe and Redcar combined with Mildenhall, IoW, Oxford, Eastbourne, Workington and maybe a couple of reserve teams like Belle Vue Colts if they could afford to? - No foreigners except Commonwealth riders with a British League average under 5 or 6 allowed. 2 per team allowed.

 

The successful, properly run, enthusiastic  4 person Northern junior League and the Midland Development League (rename it the Southern League to encourage Southern tracks to enter and for a equal North South split!) to continue for novice riders not yet ready for National League. Forget about the still born, half hearted Godfrey/Louis Premier junior League from this year. Allow teams representing defunct tracks to enter like Milton Keynes, Exeter, Reading cause these could possibly stir up enough interest to provide the inspiration to open new tracks at these lost centres like what happened at Scunny cause again Mr Godfrey who blocked such teams from running done exactly the same thing in 2003 and 2004 before Normanby Road opened in 2005!  

 

Things need to change thats for sure but what is certain is the National League has to continue albeit at a little bit higher level!

Edited October 2, 2021 by 25yearfan

[Islander15]

So Berwick  have ended their season. Mildenhall will move above them if they win 1 meeting, from their final 2, or get a draw and losing bonus point. Kent can also move above them by winning all 4 home meetings! But the problem is Mildenhall haven’t got a date to go to Armadale atm and Edinburgh are still in the play-offs and KOC! Whilst Kent only have 3 Tuesdays left in Oct but have 4 home meetings!

Its been such a shortened and disjointed NL season yet all the meaningful fixtures are taking place in October and it looks like 1 or 2 might not take place at all! Fair play to Berwick for getting all their fixtures done in a timely manner if they do win the league but everybody wants to see everybody actually finish their seasons! 

[BuxtonTiger]

Any news on the following fixtures:-

Armadale v Mildenhall

Kent v Armadale

Leicester v Belle Vue.

[gazzac]

When you look at the latest posts on the Kent NL section and on this post by Sings, Mikebv etc , I just get more and more annoyed with the destruction of the NL as it was a couple of seasons ago and really was the way to go for the bulk of speedway clubs in this country. My team Eastbourne would probably still be going if that had remained at a decent level, if it's not resolved next season (NL and hopefully my team) that's my interest gone for good after having first gone in 1972, been taking my children since 1999, and they have already moved on to other things, talk about self destruction.

Think I need another beer! 

[topsoil]

7 minutes ago, gazzac said:

When you look at the latest posts on the Kent NL section and on this post by Sings, Mikebv etc , I just get more and more annoyed with the destruction of the NL as it was a couple of seasons ago and really was the way to go for the bulk of speedway clubs in this country. My team Eastbourne would probably still be going if that had remained at a decent level, if it's not resolved next season (NL and hopefully my team) that's my interest gone for good after having first gone in 1972, been taking my children since 1999, and they have already moved on to other things, talk about self destruction.

Think I need another beer! 

And yet if you looked back in this section a few years ago you would find a lot of posts about the makeup of the National League being all wrong, in that there was a big split between teams such as Belle Vue Colts, Kings Lynn Stars second team, then your standalone clubs like Eastbourne and Birmingham. Some clubs wanted success at all costs, some only wanted to develop riders and there was a big gap between them.

And then there was the thorny subject of clubs being priced out of the league i.e. Buxton.

Selective memories from some fans?

[gazzac]

Just now, topsoil said:

And yet if you looked back in this section a few years ago you would find a lot of posts about the makeup of the National League being all wrong, in that there was a big split between teams such as Belle Vue Colts, Kings Lynn Stars second team, then your standalone clubs like Eastbourne and Birmingham. Some clubs wanted success at all costs, some only wanted to develop riders and there was a big gap between them.

And then there was the thorny subject of clubs being priced out of the league i.e. Buxton.

Selective memories from some fans?

I know that people complained about it being a National League and not a National Development League, bit it did fast track the current crop of Kemp, Brennen, Palin, Flint plus others, don't think the current 'development' league if it continues will bring on anything like the quality or numbers. Seem to remember BV were fairly successful with their NL team. Whether that was right or wrong the current system certainly is wrong, hasn't enticed the likes of Buxton or the IOW into it. 

[Sings4Speedway]

15 hours ago, topsoil said:

And yet if you looked back in this section a few years ago you would find a lot of posts about the makeup of the National League being all wrong, in that there was a big split between teams such as Belle Vue Colts, Kings Lynn Stars second team, then your standalone clubs like Eastbourne and Birmingham. Some clubs wanted success at all costs, some only wanted to develop riders and there was a big gap between them.

And then there was the thorny subject of clubs being priced out of the league i.e. Buxton.

Selective memories from some fans?

You are quite right that the NL of a few years back wasn't perfect but it was thriving. There was pay disparity between some teams but that exists across all the leagues. What did exist was a widespread league which offered opportunities to new and developing riders. Whats more is that there was often a development league running after the meetings putting riders on show, offering precious track time and supplying a genuine conveyor belt of talent. The conveyor belt being that you had to be good enough to get a NL place, reserve spots didn't come easy and were even harder to hold on to but that meant that those who did were of sufficient standard to boost the league.

As plenty could see at the start of the 2020 season the NDL had been pushed down as it was far too much of a competitive and viable product compared to the higher tiers and rather than take this approach on board and really embrace it the Board decided to squash the threat to their own businesses with the narrow minded viewpoint that they would get the few riders they needed through the diminishing youth rounds and could continue to ship in overseas riders to bolster the rest. 

The genuine board held belief that for a sport to thrive the top tiers must take priority is simply short sighted, narrow minded and selfish. For any sport to stand a chance in the short, medium and long term it needs to be built from grass roots up rather than the current approach of letting the (insert expletive here) roll down hill.

[Tsunami]

11 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

You are quite right that the NL of a few years back wasn't perfect but it was thriving. There was pay disparity between some teams but that exists across all the leagues. What did exist was a widespread league which offered opportunities to new and developing riders. Whats more is that there was often a development league running after the meetings putting riders on show, offering precious track time and supplying a genuine conveyor belt of talent. The conveyor belt being that you had to be good enough to get a NL place, reserve spots didn't come easy and were even harder to hold on to but that meant that those who did were of sufficient standard to boost the league.

As plenty could see at the start of the 2020 season the NDL had been pushed down as it was far too much of a competitive and viable product compared to the higher tiers and rather than take this approach on board and really embrace it the Board decided to squash the threat to their own businesses with the narrow minded viewpoint that they would get the few riders they needed through the diminishing youth rounds and could continue to ship in overseas riders to bolster the rest. 

The genuine board held belief that for a sport to thrive the top tiers must take priority is simply short sighted, narrow minded and selfish. For any sport to stand a chance in the short, medium and long term it needs to be built from grass roots up rather than the current approach of letting the (insert expletive here) roll down hill.

Yes, this year Newcastle was strong on Brit riders and looking after youngsters for the future. Unfortunately, due to COVID affected levels of supporters, Newcastle ditched the NL team, the GEMS, who had won both meetings home and away, top of the NL and looking good to add to the youngsters who had been grown at Newcastle. Unfortunately the Promoter immediately dumped the Gems and when challenged by the main sponsor, who had not been contacted, he was told the decision was his and his alone alone and he returned the sponsors money without any further consideration. For me and my involvement in bringing through those youngsters, my interest along with many others, was to see the development of that team, as the main team as the Diamonds was about 6 points understrength and not expected to do well. Had the decision been announced only as an intention, three of us including the team sponsor would have offered to run and pay for the NL GEMS team so that the club would have had the best of two worlds. Newcastle didn't have or wanted to be able to turn to overseas riders and stick with what was left, after getting rid of the three foreign riders who were in the original 2020 team. Edinburgh should be applauded for the way they gathered a decent team and are getting their meetings in unlike others who are not. 

[Halifaxtiger]

18 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

You are quite right that the NL of a few years back wasn't perfect but it was thriving. There was pay disparity between some teams but that exists across all the leagues. What did exist was a widespread league which offered opportunities to new and developing riders. Whats more is that there was often a development league running after the meetings putting riders on show, offering precious track time and supplying a genuine conveyor belt of talent. The conveyor belt being that you had to be good enough to get a NL place, reserve spots didn't come easy and were even harder to hold on to but that meant that those who did were of sufficient standard to boost the league.

As plenty could see at the start of the 2020 season the NDL had been pushed down as it was far too much of a competitive and viable product compared to the higher tiers and rather than take this approach on board and really embrace it the Board decided to squash the threat to their own businesses with the narrow minded viewpoint that they would get the few riders they needed through the diminishing youth rounds and could continue to ship in overseas riders to bolster the rest. 

The genuine board held belief that for a sport to thrive the top tiers must take priority is simply short sighted, narrow minded and selfish. For any sport to stand a chance in the short, medium and long term it needs to be built from grass roots up rather than the current approach of letting the (insert expletive here) roll down hill.

When every British rider in the Premiership and Championship this season plus our two GP representatives started in the third tier of the sport, it was complete nonsense to suggest that the NDL needed to 'get back to its roots'. If truth were told, it was already there. 

Whatever the make up of the league it was admirably and extremely successfully doing one of the jobs for which it was created. 

I think its absolutely clear now - although as you rightly say many do not need the benefit of hindsight - that the decision to cut the points limit was an extremely poor and damaging one provoked by nothing more than the self interest of the top two divisions. 

[arnieg]

4 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

When every British rider in the Premiership and Championship this season plus our two GP representatives started in the third tier of the sport, it was complete nonsense to suggest that the NDL needed to 'get back to its roots'. If truth were told, it was already there. 

Whatever the make up of the league it was admirably and extremely successfully doing one of the jobs for which it was created. 

I think its absolutely clear now - although as you rightly say many do not need the benefit of hindsight - that the decision to cut the points limit was an extremely poor and damaging one provoked by nothing more than the self interest of the top two divisions. 

And people seem to forget that it has always had a few more experienced riders floating around - I give you young Rob Hollingworth and Czechoslovakkian world finalist Vaclav Verner.

PS Scott Nicholls career started in the second tier.

[Sings4Speedway]

13 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Yes, this year Newcastle was strong on Brit riders and looking after youngsters for the future. Unfortunately, due to COVID affected levels of supporters, Newcastle ditched the NL team, the GEMS, who had won both meetings home and away, top of the NL and looking good to add to the youngsters who had been grown at Newcastle. Unfortunately the Promoter immediately dumped the Gems and when challenged by the main sponsor, who had not been contacted, he was told the decision was his and his alone alone and he returned the sponsors money without any further consideration. For me and my involvement in bringing through those youngsters, my interest along with many others, was to see the development of that team, as the main team as the Diamonds was about 6 points understrength and not expected to do well. Had the decision been announced only as an intention, three of us including the team sponsor would have offered to run and pay for the NL GEMS team so that the club would have had the best of two worlds. Newcastle didn't have or wanted to be able to turn to overseas riders and stick with what was left, after getting rid of the three foreign riders who were in the original 2020 team. Edinburgh should be applauded for the way they gathered a decent team and are getting their meetings in unlike others who are not. 

I thought the GEMS team personally was a good indicator of what can be achieved in the NDL. In my view understrength but it was a team who had decent local connections, home track knowledge and featured riders who had come through 2nd halves and could benefit from more experienced riders being around them. The benchmark of success can vary but the ethos certainly seemed right at Newcastle (and probably would have been even better with a higher points limit to help out) .

[proud panther]

19 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Yes, this year Newcastle was strong on Brit riders and looking after youngsters for the future. Unfortunately, due to COVID affected levels of supporters, Newcastle ditched the NL team, the GEMS, who had won both meetings home and away, top of the NL and looking good to add to the youngsters who had been grown at Newcastle. Unfortunately the Promoter immediately dumped the Gems and when challenged by the main sponsor, who had not been contacted, he was told the decision was his and his alone alone and he returned the sponsors money without any further consideration. For me and my involvement in bringing through those youngsters, my interest along with many others, was to see the development of that team, as the main team as the Diamonds was about 6 points understrength and not expected to do well. Had the decision been announced only as an intention, three of us including the team sponsor would have offered to run and pay for the NL GEMS team so that the club would have had the best of two worlds. Newcastle didn't have or wanted to be able to turn to overseas riders and stick with what was left, after getting rid of the three foreign riders who were in the original 2020 team. Edinburgh should be applauded for the way they gathered a decent team and are getting their meetings in unlike others who are not. 

Would this be a possibility next season if Rob would agree to it ? 

[Tsunami]

23 minutes ago, proud panther said:

Would this be a possibility next season if Rob would agree to it ? 

One never knows, but it should return.

[Diamondboy]

1 hour ago, Tsunami said:

One never knows, but it should return.

If there are idiots to fund it then yes, but don’t ever ask if a profit was made at the end, that’s not allowed.

[gazzac]

Had to have a 'laugh' this morning, on the official BSPA website praising team GB's win and proud that all 4 riders involved came through the NDL having practically finished it off now.

[arnieg]

The Armadale v Mildy fixture has now got a date (23rd Sat afternoon double header with Poole in Cup final)

 

With Leicester's senior season now done I imagine we'll soon get a date for the remaining matches (my guess - a double header on 24th or 30th)

[WembleyLion]

13 hours ago, arnieg said:

The Armadale v Mildy fixture has now got a date (23rd Sat afternoon double header with Poole in Cup final)

 

With Leicester's senior season now done I imagine we'll soon get a date for the remaining matches (my guess - a double header on 24th or 30th)

They have there end of season awards on 30th so it probably won’t be then!

[mikebv]

22 hours ago, gazzac said:

Had to have a 'laugh' this morning, on the official BSPA website praising team GB's win and proud that all 4 riders involved came through the NDL having practically finished it off now.

Woffy spent his formative years in Oz, riding very regularly out there to launch his career and came over here well advanced in his development for his age level.. 

Robert Lambert spent his early years learning his craft riding regularly in German racing as he couldn't get permission to race in GB due to his age.

And Dan Bewley was one of those riders who crossed over from another bike discipline and finds he is a "natural" on a Speedway bike, so would have made it through sheer natural ability regardless of age and opportunities to race, (similar to someone like John Louis)..

A simple fact is that riders of their natural talent, (like so many riders who reach the top levels), would have "made it" anyway given whatever route they took..

A bit tenuous to suggest it's any big influence from the NDL..

Tom, (who doesnt seem to be quite at the same level at this stage of his development that those other three were at the same stage), looks like someone who has benefited from riding in the NDL, as he has made solid incremental progression, but, (like the others), it was the "old NDL" where he got the chance to ride against better more experienced competitors...

Not sure that someone starting out today, and are similar in ability to where Tom was, would get the same development given they wont be getting stretched the same..

I would suggest Woffy and the Team who took over running "Team Great Britain" have been far more influential in the success of this weekend....