Sings4Speedway Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 11 hours ago, False dawn said: As long as you're really good and can walk on water eh? Seriously, even 12 matches is better than none. But a regular 2nd half regime might also develop some local talent. But I'll be called old fashioned if I keep talking this way. Worry not the Prem Junior League will spring up next year to sweep in and save the day. Ignore the fact that there was a functional 2nd half development league in place and a semi professional NDL. But fortunately plans have been put in place to scupper both of those to make way for the PJL which will make the Prem teams look wonderful and great saviours. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 9:47 PM, False dawn said: And remember the D for development comes before the L for League. Track time, a formal team structure and some kind of identity that both riders and fans can align with, are much more important than "winning the league". I was looking at the NDL from 10 years ago the other day to see what the development rate actually was for riders to make a career from competing in the NDL, it was about 20%. Which I think is woefully low. That's not to criticise anything that goes on in the NDL but the middle league has elected to take riders from the top league to make their teams up rather than the lower league and while that continues the development rate will stay at around 20% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 The NL was (in my opinion) deliberately dismantled by 2 individuals who had their own agenda. It was the ONLY league which was 80% solvent...Len Silver warned his fellow promoters about this..backed up by Barry/Martyn and myself..Now look where we are There are many many riders out there who can "put on a show"..they have been discarded..and in my personal opinion time will show how much damage to the sport in this country has been caused by these misguided actions. It is not too late to totally refigure the League structures..almost too late ,,but it needs a brave far seeing group to seriously re-structure the leagues. fans are not interested in speeds..how much is spent on engines,clutches,tyres to make the sport quicker..and more expensive and subsequently less entertaining..Equally they don't want a sport of "wobblers"..There is a medium....All riders should be contracted through the holding company...teams constructed like Denmark of graded riders.racing against riders of equal grading from stars/medium/juniors...and 3 races at the end of a meeting on a similar basis We have to start somewhere...sooner rather than later 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, spiegal said: The NL was (in my opinion) deliberately dismantled by 2 individuals who had their own agenda. It was the ONLY league which was 80% solvent...Len Silver warned his fellow promoters about this..backed up by Barry/Martyn and myself..Now look where we are There are many many riders out there who can "put on a show"..they have been discarded..and in my personal opinion time will show how much damage to the sport in this country has been caused by these misguided actions. It is not too late to totally refigure the League structures..almost too late ,,but it needs a brave far seeing group to seriously re-structure the leagues. fans are not interested in speeds..how much is spent on engines,clutches,tyres to make the sport quicker..and more expensive and subsequently less entertaining..Equally they don't want a sport of "wobblers"..There is a medium....All riders should be contracted through the holding company...teams constructed like Denmark of graded riders.racing against riders of equal grading from stars/medium/juniors...and 3 races at the end of a meeting on a similar basis We have to start somewhere...sooner rather than later Be interesting to count all the similar posts on here from the likes of Sings ,ianb ,lefty, Barry etc and loads from me stating the same or very similar, every post that goes on makes me more and more annoyed that the selfishness of a few may have finished speedway off for good on this country. Edited August 22, 2021 by gazzac 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhamboy66 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 9:04 PM, topsoil said: In a word no. And I have to laugh at how moving from National League to grasstrack on shale / amateurs / Pee Wee / beginners is "brighter better more innovative speedway". Could agree more. I feel for Mildenhall being left as the only stand alone club after Isle of Wight pulled out. I was on the Island to watch grasstrack on a speedway track and if that is innovative we’ll they can keep it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Grass track racing on a speedway track is a good way to introduce grass track riders to speedway, with the hope they will take it up. Crewe used to do Saturday mornings where grass trackers could roll up with their bikes and have a go…….. one of my regrets was I didn’t go along when I was grass tracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 The Grass track bikes on shale have proven extremely popular so far on the island, although I appreciate it may not have been for everyone who follows speedway racing. However, considering the punitive restriction placed on riders I think (and the majority of those who added think), it was a great show, and there will be more of it, as that's what the majority want to see. With more riders now coming forward for Grass Track on shale, I hope it will increase in popularity and become a valued part of any stadiums racing calendar. All the best and keep enjoying your speedway and track action wherever that maybe. Barry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, barrybishop said: The Grass track bikes on shale have proven extremely popular so far on the island, although I appreciate it may not have been for everyone who follows speedway racing. However, considering the punitive restriction placed on riders I think (and the majority of those who added think), it was a great show, and there will be more of it, as that's what the majority want to see. With more riders now coming forward for Grass Track on shale, I hope it will increase in popularity and become a valued part of any stadiums racing calendar. All the best and keep enjoying your speedway and track action wherever that maybe. Barry Grasstrack riders riding in a Speedway stadium might work for you Barry... And it might also please all the people in your stadium watching it... And persuade them to come back the week later.. To watch more of the same and other various kinds of racing without Speedway bikes.. But thats "all" it will do.. (Apart from maybe also unearthing a Speedway rider or two as well)... It wont ever please those Speedway purists though... They only want to follow team racing, with two Seven man teams, (regardless of credibility or integrity in their make up), 4 laps and four riders per race, all races from the tapes, and 15 heats of Speedway.. Obviously those same Speedway purists though havent quite noticed all those people that used to stand near them at their tracks have disappeared over the past two decades, and are no longer actually in the stadiums anymore... Still these purists are probably right.. After all, if it ain't broken dont fix it.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) On 8/22/2021 at 9:43 AM, iainb said: I was looking at the NDL from 10 years ago the other day to see what the development rate actually was for riders to make a career from competing in the NDL, it was about 20%. Which I think is woefully low. That's not to criticise anything that goes on in the NDL but the middle league has elected to take riders from the top league to make their teams up rather than the lower league and while that continues the development rate will stay at around 20% The middle tier needs to be far closer to the NDL to allow riders to progress! Even riders who can get maximums in the NDL Crang / Mulford / Smith, often score 0 at Champ level! How can a NDL rider know if he's ready for the Championship if scoring maximums at NL level isn't an indicator? Edited August 23, 2021 by szkocjasid 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, mikebv said: Grasstrack riders riding in a Speedway stadium might work for you Barry... And it might also please all the people in your stadium watching it... And persuade them to come back the week later.. To watch more of the same and other various kinds of racing without Speedway bikes.. But thats "all" it will do.. (Apart from maybe also unearthing a Speedway rider or two as well)... It wont ever please those Speedway purists though... They only want to follow team racing, with two Seven man teams, (regardless of credibility or integrity in their make up), 4 laps and four riders per race, all races from the tapes, and 15 heats of Speedway.. Obviously those same Speedway purists though havent quite noticed all those people that used to stand near them at their tracks have disappeared over the past two decades, and are no longer actually in the stadiums anymore... Still these purists are probably right.. After all, if it ain't broken dont fix it.. I've watched speedway for a decade or five but along the way had eight years buried in the grasstrack world. During that time I did form the view that grasstracking might well be a very good and inexpensive route to a speedway career for young riders (even girls - just teasing, honest). Seriously, there are lads and lassies out there plying their trade on the lawns of England that could well make it into a shale career. And they wouldn't complain about a few bumps on track when they got there either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 9 hours ago, szkocjasid said: The middle tier needs to be far closer to the NDL to allow riders to progress! Even riders who can get maximums in the NDL Crang / Mulford / Smith, often score 0 at Champ level! How can a NDL rider know if he's ready for the Championship if scoring maximums at NL level isn't an indicator? Whilst i agree that a sensible distance between the two leagues needs to be achieved part of that would be helped by increasing the standard of the NDL again. Ive also always been an advocate that if you are good enough you will make it. There will always be those who can make the step up and beyond and those that can't, making it easier for riders is not the answer, keeping the bar high and making sure riders work to achieve it is the only way the sport will be able to progress. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Sings4Speedway said: Whilst i agree that a sensible distance between the two leagues needs to be achieved part of that would be helped by increasing the standard of the NDL again. Ive also always been an advocate that if you are good enough you will make it. There will always be those who can make the step up and beyond and those that can't, making it easier for riders is not the answer, keeping the bar high and making sure riders work to achieve it is the only way the sport will be able to progress. That's what has happened to the NL this year, it's easier to score points, but not easier to step up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sidney Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit. Exactly. Wouldn't it be refreshing for BSPL to say now exactly ( or even approximately) how it envisaged this would work? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 7 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit. Some of us saw the problems. Others were either too narrow minded or short sighted to see them and pressed ahead regardless unfortunately. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 On 8/24/2021 at 10:07 AM, Sings4Speedway said: Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit. Not everyone heralded the idea, just the ones making the decisions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Central Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: Not everyone heralded the idea, just the ones making the decisions! That is so true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted August 26, 2021 Report Share Posted August 26, 2021 On 8/24/2021 at 5:45 PM, Islander15 said: Some of us saw the problems. Others were either too narrow minded or short sighted to see them and pressed ahead regardless unfortunately. Short sighted short termism which the BSPL have done for many years and now the Crows have come home to roost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 The National League was a cracking product just a few years ago, maybe not being what it should have been ie bringing on riders but seems to have gone downhill this year especially in the organisation bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bruno said: 1 hour ago, bruno said: The National League was a cracking product just a few years ago, maybe not being what it should have been ie bringing on riders but seems to have gone downhill this year especially in the organisation bit It was a perfect product, entertaining and brought on the likes of Brennen, Kemp, Flint, Palin, Thomas etc etc, so did a pretty good job at the development, and can't see the conveyor belt of talent continuing at that level.It was basically abandoned at the outset this year by the powers that be. Edited October 1, 2021 by gazzac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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