Five tracks you never got to but wish you had

[norbold]

4 hours ago, E I Addio said:

One of the great meetings I wish I had seen but didn’t, would be the 1961 Tom Farndon Trophy when the great Jack Young in the Twilight Of his career came back and worked his old magic and took the Trophy ahead of the Fundin , Briggs and Moore. Everything I’ve ever read about Jack Young makes me wish I had seen him at his best, so to get in my time machine to see him at New Cross would be killing two birds with one stone !

 

Jack Young actually beat Moore, Knutson, Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Trophy while the week before he had won the King of the South Cup, also at New Cross, beating Fundin, Moore and Briggs. So, in the course of those two weeks he beat every one of the "Big Five", some more than once! I was at both meetings and have always felt very privileged to have seen Youngie as he must have been at his best in the early 50s.

[steve roberts]

57 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Bob Radford RIP ) recommended him he had a torrid time at the Abbey.

...not a name that revered at Cowley after he walked out during 1974 and the last straw being when he took a call from Gordon Kennett who was enquiring whether that day's match was still on and was told by Radford that it had been called off but then went ahead and we were beaten by Swindon with a depleted team with Alan Johns replacing the missing Gordon who didn't travel from his Kent home.

Radford later tried to claim that he had laid the foundations for White City's title win in 1977 which was a total nonsense. The only two rider's who rode under Radford's era was the aforementioned Gordon and Trevor Geer (who occasionally put in an appearance for the "Rebels")

Sorry Sid...not a fan of Bob Radford based on his Oxford exploits.

Edited August 21, 2021 by steve roberts

[salty]

30 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

What about Shields Salty ? so wanted him to continue in Britain. For me  he was like Mick Mckeon  Coatbridge/ Halifax ( king of Claremont)  both was never going to be here long term both class riders.

 

53 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

 

Was great for Cradley in '81, Sid. Got better and better as the season went on, providing crucial backing to the big 4 of Penhall, Gundersen, Collins and Grahame. Pretty sure he averaged over 6 in the BL taking plenty of extra rides as McNeil and Rasmussen struggled as the season went on. Was gutted when he never returned and the 1982 team struggled all year long from reserve.

[Sidney the robin]

10 hours ago, salty said:

 

Was great for Cradley in '81, Sid. Got better and better as the season went on, providing crucial backing to the big 4 of Penhall, Gundersen, Collins and Grahame. Pretty sure he averaged over 6 in the BL taking plenty of extra rides as McNeil and Rasmussen struggled as the season went on. Was gutted when he never returned and the 1982 team struggled all year long from reserve.

Actually had forgotten Salty that Dave started his career in 1974, remember him getting a paid or maximum.? at Milton Keynes 1978.? 

[Sidney the robin]

10 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...not a name that revered at Cowley after he walked out during 1974 and the last straw being when he took a call from Gordon Kennett who was enquiring whether that day's match was still on and was told by Radford that it had been called off but then went ahead and we were beaten by Swindon with a depleted team with Alan Johns replacing the missing Gordon who didn't travel from his Kent home.

Radford later tried to claim that he had laid the foundations for White City's title win in 1977 which was a total nonsense. The only two rider's who rode under Radford's era was the aforementioned Gordon and Trevor Geer (who occasionally put in an appearance for the "Rebels")

Sorry Sid...not a fan of Bob Radford based on his Oxford exploits.

I got on with him personally but he did have certain issues with people over the years.When you look back at that White City team you would never think of it being good anough to win a league fair play they did it.Steve the POLE you had ( AJ) can’t be bothered spelling it looked very useful felt he could of along with Piotr Pyszny had good careers in Britain  if the opportunity had arisen.

[steve roberts]

23 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I got on with him personally but he did have certain issues with people over the years.When you look back at that White City team you would never think of it being good anough to win a league fair play they did it.Steve the POLE you had ( AJ) can’t be bothered spelling it looked very useful felt he could of along with Piotr Pyszny had good careers in Britain  if the opportunity had arisen.

I'm afraid that Bob continued to carry a 'chip on his soldier' as regards Oxford long after he left under a cloud Sid!

The Pole would be Andrzej Jurczynski who ocasionally showed some form no more than in a second half (remember those?) final where he came from behind and beat Gordon Kennett twice! They passed and re-passed on a number of occasions and when the race was re-run the same thing happened!

[Grachan]

12 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...not a name that revered at Cowley after he walked out during 1974 and the last straw being when he took a call from Gordon Kennett who was enquiring whether that day's match was still on and was told by Radford that it had been called off but then went ahead and we were beaten by Swindon with a depleted team with Alan Johns replacing the missing Gordon who didn't travel from his Kent home.

Radford later tried to claim that he had laid the foundations for White City's title win in 1977 which was a total nonsense. The only two rider's who rode under Radford's era was the aforementioned Gordon and Trevor Geer (who occasionally put in an appearance for the "Rebels")

Sorry Sid...not a fan of Bob Radford based on his Oxford exploits.

I remember that match. It was the first time I ever went to Oxford. I had no idea who Alan Johns or Gordon Kennett were so it meant nothing to me. I even wrote A.Jones in my programme as the replacement.

Martin Ashby had an ef in his first ride and gifted Henk Steman a point. The same thing then happened in the return match at Blunsdon, when Oxford got a pretty hefty revenge.

 

[steve roberts]

26 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I remember that match. It was the first time I ever went to Oxford. I had no idea who Alan Johns or Gordon Kennett were so it meant nothing to me. I even wrote A.Jones in my programme as the replacement.

Martin Ashby had an ef in his first ride and gifted Henk Steman a point. The same thing then happened in the return match at Blunsdon, when Oxford got a pretty hefty revenge.

 

If I recall that was Henk's debut match? Yes I remember the return tie...an all round team performance from the "Rebels". We also spoilt Swindon's 25th Anniversary Meeting when we were, again, the victors! Happy days!

[Sidney the robin]

13 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

If I recall that was Henk's debut match? Yes I remember the return tie...an all round team performance from the "Rebels". We also spoilt Swindon's 25th Anniversary Meeting when we were, again, the victors! Happy days!

I remember 1974 pretty well can remember the Rebels beating us 46-32 at the Abbey Ashby only scored 7 points from five rides unheard then. And in a challenge at Cowley i went beating us god 50-28 battered us to be precise.A couple of other moments that stick in mind at Cowley in 1974. are Kennett/ Dews getting a 5-1 over Mauger in the Exeter encounter and in some other meeting Bobby McNeil beating the late great Jack Millen  2-0 in the Silver Helmet.

[steve roberts]

9 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I remember 1974 pretty well can remember the Rebels beating us 46-32 at the Abbey Ashby only scored 7 points from five rides unheard then. And in a challenge at Cowley i went beating us god 50-28 battered us to be precise.A couple of other moments that stick in mind at Cowley in 1974. are Kennett/ Dews getting a 5-1 over Mauger in the Exeter encounter and in some other meeting Bobby McNeil beating the late great Jack Millen  2-0 in the Silver Helmet.

Sorry to go on about Bob Radford Sid but mentioning Bobby McNeil I'm sure that Radford was instrumental in him going to Swindon rather than the "Rebels" when he finally moved up full-time in 1975 after doubling up with the "Rebels" during 1974 on occasions?

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Sorry to go on about Bob Radford Sid but mentioning Bobby McNeil I'm sure that Radford was instrumental in him going to Swindon rather than the "Rebels" when he finally moved up full-time in 1975 after doubling up with the "Rebels" during 1974 on occasions?

Yes was never really a fan of Bobby, Geoff Bouchard, Jan Andersson yes they give there all for Swindon but as yourself you have your favourites over the years . Mine were  Briggs, Ashby/ Kilb, Hitch, Crumpy ((snr) Holloway, Mastrup, Gramstad .As for Oxford it has to be Lovass, Middleton, Timmo, and later on 84 onwards Hans.

[Grachan]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Yes was never really a fan of Bobby, Geoff Bouchard, Jan Andersson yes they give there all for Swindon but as yourself you have your favourites over the years . Mine were  Briggs, Ashby/ Kilb, Hitch, Crumpy ((snr) Holloway, Mastrup, Gramstad .As for Oxford it has to be Lovass, Middleton, Timmo, and later on 84 onwards Hans.

I always liked Bobby. I remember he really struggled at reserve in his first year at Swindon and then top scored with 14 in the final match of the season. He then went on to be a heatleader from there. Was never the same after his coccxyx injury though.

I read somewhere he decided to retire after Vic Harding's crash.

[Split]

17 hours ago, norbold said:

Jack Young actually beat Moore, Knutson, Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Trophy while the week before he had won the King of the South Cup, also at New Cross, beating Fundin, Moore and Briggs. So, in the course of those two weeks he beat every one of the "Big Five", some more than once! I was at both meetings and have always felt very privileged to have seen Youngie as he must have been at his best in the early 50s.

I was also at both meetings. Jack Young had actually already won the Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy in 1951 and it's remarkable that he won it again ten years later!

 

[Sidney the robin]

18 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I always liked Bobby. I remember he really struggled at reserve in his first year at Swindon and then top scored with 14 in the final match of the season. He then went on to be a heatleader from there. Was never the same after his coccxyx injury though.

I read somewhere he decided to retire after Vic Harding's crash.

He did have two really good years at Swindon, put well over 3 points on his average in 1976 a really good year in 77 to.At Hackney he was not quite the same and Vic being killed must of affected him.Bobby along with Ian Cartwright, John Cook ( averaged 4.17 at Hull over 8.5 the next year .Not to many riders put over 2.5 to  3 points on there average there must be a few  over the years  but those three named come to mind.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Sidney the robin

[Sidney the robin]

3 hours ago, Split said:

I was also at both meetings. Jack Young had actually already won the Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy in 1951 and it's remarkable that he won it again ten years later!

 

How many times did you see Jack ride Split? ( at a guess) and how bigger shock then ? that a div 2 rider won the World Championship.

[Split]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

How many times did you see Jack ride Split? ( at a guess) and how bigger shock then ? that a div 2 rider won the World Championship.

I probably only saw Jack Young ride about half a dozen times or less and as I was only 4 years old in 1951, I can't really comment on his World Championship win.  

[norbold]

2 hours ago, Split said:

I probably only saw Jack Young ride about half a dozen times or less and as I was only 4 years old in 1951, I can't really comment on his World Championship win.  

We're the same age, Split! 

[Split]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2021 at 4:01 PM, E I Addio said:

One of the great meetings I wish I had seen but didn’t, would be the 1961 Tom Farndon Trophy when the great Jack Young in the Twilight Of his career came back and worked his old magic and took the Trophy ahead of the Fundin , Briggs and Moore. Everything I’ve ever read about Jack Young makes me wish I had seen him at his best, so to get in my time machine to see him at New Cross would be killing two birds with one stone !

Being reminded of Jack Young finding his best form so late in his career make me looks back at the New Cross team that I supported in 1961. I often think that if they could only have all been riding at the peak of their form we would have had 6 heat leaders and maybe even have challenged our near neighbours, Wimbledon for the league title.  Obviously the difference in ages and riders being at different stages of their development makes this a pipe dream but there are not too many teams that can boast of having 6 world finalists in their line up with Waterman (twice runner up) and Eric Williams (fourth place in 1955) being the most successful.  

Edited August 23, 2021 by Split

[norbold]

4 hours ago, Split said:

Being reminded of Jack Young finding his best form so late in his career make me looks back at the New Cross team that I supported in 1961. I often think that if they could only have all been riding at the peak of their form we would have had 6 heat leaders and maybe even have challenged our near neighbours, Wimbledon for the league title.  Obviously the difference in ages and riders being at different stages of their development makes this a pipe dream but there are not too many teams that can boast of having 6 world finalists in their line up with Waterman (twice runner up) and Eric Williams (fourth place in 1955) being the most successful.  

There were also a few occasions in 1960 when we tracked six world finalists, including a four times World Champion!

[Ovalman]

On 8/22/2021 at 11:13 AM, Sidney the robin said:

Yes was never really a fan of Bobby, Geoff Bouchard, Jan Andersson yes they give there all for Swindon but as yourself you have your favourites over the years . Mine were  Briggs, Ashby/ Kilb, Hitch, Crumpy ((snr) Holloway, Mastrup, Gramstad .As for Oxford it has to be Lovass, Middleton, Timmo, and later on 84 onwards Hans.

Abbey faves Hitch, Briggo, Ashby, Kilbs, Broady, Doyley, Zagar, Adams.Never saw Crumple, Autrey or Nilsen ride.

Edited August 23, 2021 by auntie doris