False dawn Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: It’s all about decisions isn’t it, they both decided not to ride in the U.K this year So I can understand the BSPL not including them in anything they organise, personally I wouldn’t include them in the SON or anything else for which the ACU/SCB get allocated places for, like the World and European Championships etc. British places should go to riders who race in the U.K. I get what you're saying and I have some sympathy for that point of view. But isn't that the route to fortress Britain and us having no future presence on the world stage? Just now, I'm guessing, like me, if Tai (or Robert) won the world championship, you'd be up there shouting your head off and singing the National Anthem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 most of the racing was better than than the gp this year 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 You pick your best riders... If that's Woffinden and Lambert then they ride... The sport in the UK needs as much publicity as it can get so a SON win, in the UK, will give it some of that much needed publicity.. If Bewley and Ellis both qualify for the GP's though then I would think the selectors have some thinking to do... But as it stands, given both Woffinden and Lambert more than hold their own at the very top of the sport in Poland, the GP's and the SEC, then they will be, quite rightly, in pole position.. As that experience of riding at the very top level week in week out will inevitably give them an edge.. Be good to see Ellis get a Polish top league position next year as I think he is as near as damn it ready, and a GP slot will make the top tier over there take notice without a doubt... Pity he doesn't ride in the SEC too, as that will give him exposure to those who make the big decisions in Poland.. Riders like Zagar, C. Holder, Bjerre, and Lidsey are all similar in standard to him... And,, as seen last night, so too is Dan Bewley.. (Although in a completely different environment from racing in Poland with all the pressures to perform granted).. Its just good to have four riders either already at world level, or getting very close to it... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, mikebv said: You pick your best riders... If that's Woffinden and Lambert then they ride... The sport in the UK needs as much publicity as it can get so a SON win, in the UK, will give it some of that much needed publicity.. If Bewley and Ellis both qualify for the GP's though then I would think the selectors have some thinking to do... But as it stands, given both Woffinden and Lambert more than hold their own at the very top of the sport in Poland, the GP's and the SEC, then they will be, quite rightly, in pole position.. As that experience of riding at the very top level week in week out will inevitably give them an edge.. Be good to see Ellis get a Polish top league position next year as I think he is as near as damn it ready, and a GP slot will make the top tier over there take notice without a doubt... Pity he doesn't ride in the SEC too, as that will give him exposure to those who make the big decisions in Poland.. Riders like Zagar, C. Holder, Bjerre, and Lidsey are all similar in standard to him... And,, as seen last night, so too is Dan Bewley.. (Although in a completely different environment from racing in Poland with all the pressures to perform granted).. Its just good to have four riders either already at world level, or getting very close to it... time for Britain to get more involved in staging SEC and GP qualifying rounds in addition to age group championships 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said: It’s all about decisions isn’t it, they both decided not to ride in the U.K this year So I can understand the BSPL not including them in anything they organise, personally I wouldn’t include them in the SON or anything else for which the ACU/SCB get allocated places for, like the World and European Championships etc. British places should go to riders who race in the U.K. So Jadon Sancho shouldn't have been picked for England during the time he played for Borussia Dortmund? Nonsense. If you're English you're English no matter where you ply your trade. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: So Jadon Sancho shouldn't have been picked for England during the time he played for Borussia Dortmund? Nonsense. If you're English you're English no matter where you ply your trade. I am talking U.K. speedway which if you haven’t already have noticed isn’t in the same position as a lot of other sports in this country. Their should be consequences for not riding in your domestic league and that’s my opinion, riders are clear to make their own choices, I don’t have a problem with any British rider riding abroad but I think they should put the U.K. ahead of other countries if circumstances or other rules suggest they are limited to how many leagues they can do. Edited August 17, 2021 by bigcatdiary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: I am talking U.K. speedway which if you haven’t already have noticed isn’t in the same position as a lot of other sports in this country. The principle of your statement and my response is exactly the same, no matter what sport one is speaking about. Edited August 17, 2021 by chris4gillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: The principle of your statement and my response is exactly the same, no matter what sport one is speaking about. I have no problem with having Woffinden and Lambert in the SON, and they probably give us the best chance of winning it. Having said that, picking Bewley and Ellis would definitely have a long-term benefit and might also give riders an incentive to keep riding in the UK once they hit World Class. I wouldn't normally consider going without the two GP riders, but I think we now have a couple of really useful riders and would be happy to see them represent us. I think the crowd might feel a greater attachment to them too. It would be a bold decision, but one I feel might get a lot of support. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheese Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 Well done to Adam Ellis, best rider on the night so fully deserved. Bewley's time will come I'm sure, hopefully both can make it into the GPs through the qualifier this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Grachan said: I have no problem with having Woffinden and Lambert in the SON, and they probably give us the best chance of winning it. Having said that, picking Bewley and Ellis would definitely have a long-term benefit and might also give riders an incentive to keep riding in the UK once they hit World Class. I wouldn't normally consider going without the two GP riders, but I think we now have a couple of really useful riders and would be happy to see them represent us. I think the crowd might feel a greater attachment to them too. It would be a bold decision, but one I feel might get a lot of support. Whilst I do agree with what you say in principle, if you have any intentions of winning at world level you've got to go with your two best riders and that without doubt is Tai and Lambo. Bewley and Ellis both have many years ahead of them (assuming they stay serious injury free) and their time will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, chris4gillian said: Whilst I do agree with what you say in principle, if you have any intentions of winning at world level you've got to go with your two best riders and that without doubt is Tai and Lambo. Bewley and Ellis both have many years ahead of them (assuming they stay serious injury free) and their time will come. It will, but can Tai and Robert match the might of either Russia or Poland in this anyway? I agree, they probably have a greater chance than Adam and Dan would, but I still can't see it. Tai isn't quite the rider he was before. At what point do we consider moving Dan and Adam up. The SON format gives them little chance of representing us at World level now that both are over 21. It's a shame they have butchered the World Cup really. It would be nice to have a team of all 4 as I think they would be a match for most countries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 Decent meeting last night, congrats to Adam for his fantastic win. Also great to see Bomber and Scotty giving it a go and turning the clock back a few years. For me though, the big, sorry huge talking point, which could have repercussions across the whole speedway world was Nigel Pearson telling Kelvin Tatum that he used to cheer the name of Simon Cross but boo when Kelv's was announced at Cradley meetings. Wow. You could tell by the latter's muted response that he was taken aback and their awkward interactions over the rest of the meeting showed that all was not well. Could this be the end of an era? The end of their wonderful 30 year partnership (seems longer)? Time will tell, I suppose, but it's sure going to be difficult for both of them, especially Kelvin, to carry on as normal after an admission as earth shattering as that. Keep your eyes on the tabloids, this is gonna be big! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: A shame Lambert and Woffinden hold British fans in contempt and can’t be arsed to come over for this one. Yes, Booo! 11 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Fantastic Adam Ellis! Well deserved and a great ride in the final. Will follow Bewley, Lambert and Woffinden to bigger things. Yes Hurrah! Now Ellis can join those holding British fans in contempt 10 hours ago, HenryW said: Possibly a bit harsh, as Rob has said on twitter that he wasn't offered a place. Definitely harsh... Why would you not invite a 3 x World Champion and a European Champion but decide to invite an Australian "British" Champion 1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said: It’s all about decisions isn’t it, they both decided not to ride in the U.K this year So I can understand the BSPL not including them in anything they organise, personally I wouldn’t include them in the SON or anything else for which the ACU/SCB get allocated places for, like the World and European Championships etc. British places should go to riders who race in the U.K. You track your best riders... end of. 46 minutes ago, George Dodds said: time for Britain to get more involved in staging SEC and GP qualifying rounds in addition to age group championships Not so sure they have too much choice about the GP qualifiers as they seem to be allocated by the FIM to "lesser" Speedway nations, why we don't qualify for that these days I'm not sure. BSPL have never been keen on the SEC and only recently have allowed British riders to compete in the event. It is disappoint not to have seen the GB Speedway Team ride in any event on their own shores this year though. I know travel is difficult this year but surely an event could have been put on somewhere in the country at some point, there was a blank date in the calendar when the British GP was cancelled. Well done Adam Elliss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Grachan said: Tai isn't quite the rider he was before. Neither is Emil or Magic... But I think Bartek and Artem are making them look a bit ordinary at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbw Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) Whoops I burped! Edited August 17, 2021 by PirateShip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 Well done to Adam, Dan, and indeed Charles Wright who really stepped up on the night. Very unfortunate for Kyle Howarth not to make the final after coming so close and looking hungry enough in the heats to be a potential winner. Scott and Bomber are obviously over the hill now but they both showed they have a special quality that the younger ones can only aspire to. I enjoyed watching them and speedway will be poorer when they eventually hang up their Kevlars for good. Nothing can take away from Adams win though.I’ve known him since his early days practicing at Lakeside, a thoroughly nice guy as indeed Dan seems to be. Such a shame those running the sport don’t match the talent of those riding in it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) It's not Lambert and Woffinden's fault that our league is such a poor product nowadays, they base themselves in Poland to ride in the best league and to make good money. Bewley and possibly Ellis will probably follow suit as their career trajectories go up and up, riders don't want all the travel backwards and forwards and prefer two race days as well as World Championshop commitments. World class riders will outgrow what we have over here because its been managed so badly over the last 20-30 years and I would never blame any British rider for cutting the UK out of their schedule. Edited August 17, 2021 by Bagpuss 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: So Jadon Sancho shouldn't have been picked for England during the time he played for Borussia Dortmund? Nonsense. If you're English you're English no matter where you ply your trade. Nor Jude Bellingham... Nor Kevin Keegan, Tony Woodcock, Trevor Francis, Ray Wilkins, Gary Lineker, Paul Gascoigne, David Platt..... And France shouldn't pick Pogba, nor Portugal Bruno, or Ronaldo and no Neymar for Brazil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 20 minutes ago, Grachan said: It will, but can Tai and Robert match the might of either Russia or Poland in this anyway? I agree, they probably have a greater chance than Adam and Dan would, but I still can't see it. Tai isn't quite the rider he was before. At what point do we consider moving Dan and Adam up. The SON format gives them little chance of representing us at World level now that both are over 21. It's a shame they have butchered the World Cup really. It would be nice to have a team of all 4 as I think they would be a match for most countries. I disagree, he's having machinery problems at the moment. ALL riders go through 'poor' patches for whatever reason and most (not all) recover from them once they isolate the issue. Tai is still in the top 6 in the world champs. don't forget... Oh and well done Adam Ellis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: Nor Jude Bellingham... Nor Kevin Keegan, Tony Woodcock, Trevor Francis, Ray Wilkins, Gary Lineker, Paul Gascoigne, David Platt..... And France shouldn't pick Pogba, nor Portugal Bruno, or Ronaldo and no Neymar for Brazil... I just picked a very recent player in that position to validate my point. There are countless players and sports people who don't ply their trade in their home country, so why single out speedway riders? It's a very weak argument, full stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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