GP round 8 Togliatti Russia Saturday August 28th live on BT Sport

[Bavarian]

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Nothing wrong with the effort from the racers last night, they gave 100% as usual. Track was to blame.

Phil Morris is responsible for the track conditions. All he does is water the track too much. There were very long and boring track preparation breaks last night because of this, and it still did not improve the racing, there was hardly any overtakign in the first twelve heats.

But the racing got a little better towards the end and it did improve dramatically in the two semis and the final, when it really mattered. It is obvious that for most of the riders the heat races are just not worth taking any risks, due to that highly unpopular new point scoring system.

There's lots of hard work to do for DISCOVERY/EUROSPORT to restore the SGP series to its former glory next year. But I very much doubt that they will be the right people for that job. With them it could easily get worse, but I hope I'm proved wrong.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Bavarian

[f-s-p]

2 minutes ago, Bavarian said:

Phil Morris is responsible for the track conditions. All he does is water the track too much. There were very long and boring track preparation breaks last night because of this, and it still did not improve the track, there was hardly any overtakign in the first twelve heats.

But the racing got a littele better towards teh end and it did improve dramatically in the two semis and the final, when it really mattered. It is obvious that the heat races are just not worth taking any risks, due to that highly unpopular new point scoring system.

There's lots of hard work to do for DISCOVERY/EUROSPORT to restore the SGP series to its former glory next year. But I very much doubt that they will be the right people for that job. With them it could easily get worse, but I hope I'm proved wrong.

 

Basically are back to the same old story, let the locals do the track, dont mess with tracks ypu know nothing about.

[lbw]

Just watched the GP. 

Glad I didn't watch it live as I was at Leicester v Plymouth, yep I'm not like some who don't go to their local track when speedway is on tv at the same time. 

The GP was total and utter garbage! Shocking track, shocking camera work, and add in everything else Pearson & Tatum doin their usual Bill & Ben the flower pot men double act, oh my total crappo! 

That said it was good to see Tai have a better night but then the track even got the better of him in the end. 

Was better to be at Leicester & watching young Dan Thompson passing and beating GP legend Crump 

Crumpy may be a long way from what he was but I'm sure Dan will be well made up with that one. Well done Dan 

 

[bigcatdiary]

2 hours ago, screm said:

Good on BSI for taking SGP to a new venue in Togliatti but now they have  hopefully they won't be back.

It was only half full this year, how many people will go back to watch that load of crap and it will hardly entice people to go after watching it live last night.

Let’s be fair under this new scoring points system the first 12 heats are gate and go with little interest in passing or racing with riders generally accepting positions after the first bend.

The fourth and fifth series of qualifying races are generally better as riders make a serious attempt to qualify for the semis.

The semis and final are generally very competitive as riders are desperate to make the final and invariably take chances to try and get through and then win the final.

I would have thought every point counting and just the winner getting 25 would satisfy both camps, although I don’t have any problem with the old system where every race point counted, it certainly made for better race meetings.

Edited August 29, 2021 by bigcatdiary

[tocha]

1 hour ago, NeilWatson said:

Fricke 32210, Janowski 3221X  - the 0 trumps X

This doesn't explain why Madsen finished ahead of Woffinden. Points awarded for 3rd and 4th in the semis are based upon those scored in the qualifying heats. Both finished last in their respective semi but Woffinden scored 13 and so should have been awarded 10  but Madsen, scoring 10 in the qualifiers, 9.

https://www.speedwaygp.com/news/article/7919/sgp-scoring-and-qualification-changes

[waiheke1]

5 minutes ago, tocha said:

This doesn't explain why Madsen finished ahead of Woffinden. Points awarded for 3rd and 4th in the semis are based upon those scored in the qualifying heats. Both finished last in their respective semi but Woffinden scored 13 and so should have been awarded 10  but Madsen, scoring 10 in the qualifiers, 9.

https://www.speedwaygp.com/news/article/7919/sgp-scoring-and-qualification-changes

Woffy didn't finish in his semi though, so i believe Madsen's last beats his DNF

[racers and royals]

2 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Woffy didn't finish in his semi though, so i believe Madsen's last beats his DNF

Exactly

[tocha]

6 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Woffy didn't finish in his semi though, so i believe Madsen's last beats his DNF

Probably the only reason but such an instance is not covered in the SGP statement unless there has been a subsequent amendment.

Of the two third-placed semi-final riders, the one who finished highest after the heats will be ranked fifth and receive 12 championship points, while the other will be ranked sixth and earn 11 championship points – with the existing countback system used to resolve any ties if riders finished level.

Likewise, the fourth-placed semi-final rider who scores highest in the heats will be ranked seventh, receiving 10 championship points, and the other fourth finisher will finish eighth and earn nine.

Edited August 29, 2021 by tocha
missed out part of post.

[IainB]

40 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said:

It was only half full this year, how many people will go back to watch that load of crap and it will hardly entice people to go after watching it live last night.

I think they'd be promoting the Artem Laguta angle rather than the crap racing angle... by the looks of the crowd most people seemed quite happy with it

[racers and royals]

8 minutes ago, tocha said:

Probably the only reason but such an instance is not covered in the SGP statement unless there has been a subsequent amendment.

Of the two third-placed semi-final riders, the one who finished highest after the heats will be ranked fifth and receive 12 championship points, while the other will be ranked sixth and earn 11 championship points – with the existing countback system used to resolve any ties if riders finished level.

Likewise, the fourth-placed semi-final rider who scores highest in the heats will be ranked seventh, receiving 10 championship points, and the other fourth finisher will finish eighth and earn nine.

From the rule book

Positions 5th to 8th in the Final Meeting Classification will be according to the results from the Semi Finals (Race 21 & 22). The 2 Riders who finish 3rd in each of the Semi Finals will be 5th and 6th in the Final Meeting Classification, with the higher ranked rider from Intermediate Classification 5th and the lower ranked rider 6th. This rule will FIM Speedway Grand Prix World Championship 29 apply if both riders complete, or fail to complete the Semi Final. If only one of these riders fail to complete the Semi Final for any reason, he will be placed 6th in the final meeting classification. The 2 Riders who finish 4th in each of the Semi Finals will be 7th and 8th in the Final Meeting Classification, with the higher ranked rider from Intermediate Classification 7th and the lower ranked rider 8th. This rule will apply if both riders complete, or fail to complete the Semi Final. If only one of these riders fail to complete the Semi Final for any reason, he will be placed 8th in the final meeting classification.

Edited August 29, 2021 by racers and royals

[tocha]

10 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

From the rule book

Positions 5th to 8th in the Final Meeting Classification will be according to the results from the Semi Finals (Race 21 & 22). The 2 Riders who finish 3rd in each of the Semi Finals will be 5th and 6th in the Final Meeting Classification, with the higher ranked rider from Intermediate Classification 5th and the lower ranked rider 6th. This rule will FIM Speedway Grand Prix World Championship 29 apply if both riders complete, or fail to complete the Semi Final. If only one of these riders fail to complete the Semi Final for any reason, he will be placed 6th in the final meeting classification. The 2 Riders who finish 4th in each of the Semi Finals will be 7th and 8th in the Final Meeting Classification, with the higher ranked rider from Intermediate Classification 7th and the lower ranked rider 8th. This rule will apply if both riders complete, or fail to complete the Semi Final. If only one of these riders fail to complete the Semi Final for any reason, he will be placed 8th in the final meeting classification.

Thanks for clarifying this. The original statement was incomplete.

[OveFundinFan]

2 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Think the points system is wrong. Score 15 points, get blown out in the semi and end up with much less? Unfair imo. 
Perhaps someone could work out what the current standings would be under points scored with last years system.

So you missed the interesting bit of the meeting…… they did show a comparison part way through…… Laguna would have been leading by about 5 I think it was.

[chunky]

4 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Think the points system is wrong. Score 15 points, get blown out in the semi and end up with much less? Unfair imo. 
 

Perhaps someone could work out what the current standings would be under points scored with last years system.

Is it fair for the winner of the GP to get the most points?

Is if fair for riders in the final to get fewer points than those who didn't reach the final?

To be honest, the system IS fair (the same for everyone), and you just have to remember that 20 heats are just a qualifier for the semis, where everyone starts from scratch.

[racers and royals]

17 minutes ago, chunky said:

Is it fair for the winner of the GP to get the most points?

Is if fair for riders in the final to get fewer points than those who didn't reach the final?

To be honest, the system IS fair (the same for everyone), and you just have to remember that 20 heats are just a qualifier for the semis, where everyone starts from scratch.

Mikebv i think it was posted earlier in the season regarding doing away with the semi`s and having 4 finals D, C, B and A

D= lowest 4 scorers GP points    4 , 3 , 2 and 1

C = 2nd lowest scorers GP points  8 , 7 , 6 and 5

B= 2nd highest scorers GP points   12 , 11, 10 and 9

A - highest scorers GP points  20, 18, 16, and 14 

every race counts to get into the highest  final one can 

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, racers and royals said:

Mikebv i think it was posted earlier in the season regarding doing away with the semi`s and having 4 finals D, C, B and A

D= lowest 4 scorers GP points    4 , 3 , 2 and 1

C = 2nd lowest scorers GP points  8 , 7 , 6 and 5

B= 2nd highest scorers GP points   12 , 11, 10 and 9

A - highest scorers GP points  20, 18, 16, and 14 

every race counts to get into the highest  final one can 

Seems reasonable.

I would just tweak the final to 25, 20, 17, 14.  Makes it worth fighting for every place. A 5 point gain is worth fighting more then a 2 point.

[bellevueace]

8 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Nothing wrong with the effort from the racers last night, they gave 100% as usual. Track was to blame.

I think with the new points system riders ride within themselves to qualify for the semis then give it everything, the result of the scoring system.

[racers and royals]

44 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Seems reasonable.

I would just tweak the final to 25, 20, 17, 14.  Makes it worth fighting for every place. A 5 point gain is worth fighting more then a 2 point.

I Wouldn’t because it could widen the series points too much, plus people would still say that someone got in the A final with 10 points and walked away with 25.( which still would happen with 20 )

[chunky]

35 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

I Wouldn’t because it could widen the series points too much, plus people would still say that someone got in the A final with 10 points and walked away with 25.( which still would happen with 20 )

If you're really worried about that, just give everyone the same number of points... 

[Grachan]

I would still have the top 3 in the final as the top 3 on the rostrum.

I'd give 20 points for winning the final and go on race points for all the others. that way every race still matters, but you still get the big points for winning the final.

[Bavarian]

I would keep the old scoring system as we had it, all race counts for the world championship, and the scoring in every race is 3-2-1-0, simple as that, easy to understand, and totally fair for every rider.