Speedway to reinvent itself?

[IainB]

32 minutes ago, Trees said:

If you have the money to invest in speedway to make it what you want it to be go ahead, if not ..........

Ah, that old chestnut, the only way that can happen is for @waytogo28 to buy every club, or at least enough clubs to have the deciding vote at conference to pull the sport out of the mire it's in. And although he/she could probably pick all those clubs up for a tenner they'd be taking on a mountain of debt. Unfortunately we're stuck with what we've got unless a Kerry Packer type comes along. We had our chance with Sky TV coverage and blew it.

Edited August 24, 2021 by iainb

[Sir Sidney]

3 hours ago, Trees said:

. Leave it to those who want the sport to survive and who love watching speedway at their local club. 

I only wish I could. My 'local' clubs are all circa 60 miles or more away sadly

[cowboy cookie returns?]

I always use 1990 as a benchmark for the decline in UK speedway. My first full proper season as a fan aged 12.

I have been looking back though the archives.

1990 saw 26 professional clubs split into 2 leagues the old British league 9 clubs & the national League of 17 clubs.

The British championship was contested by 48 British riders starting with a  quarter final stage. Compare that to today.

18 professional clubs & a British championship where 16 riders are put straight into the final as there aren't enough to do any thing else.

1990  182 team spots with no doubling up 2021 126 team spots where I believe 123 of those are held by doubling up riders. Also let's not forget that in 1990 those 26 league clubs all had junior League teams with an additional 4 spots per team.

1990 plenty of opportunity to ride, speedway in various formats alongside the league format eg 4 team championship & best pairs. I think that season my track Ipswich had 30 home meetings. Oh what happy days. 

The only real beacon of hope in that time was the early part of Sky's involvement I think by 2005 so 6 years in with sky it was clear that there wasn't any plan or indeed desire to do anything different....what a missed opportunity!!!

Although on the decline it's been the past 10 to 15 years where the real damage has been done.  

[cowboy cookie returns?]

4 hours ago, Trees said:

The way to go is out of the forum m8 :D. Leave it to those who want the sport to survive and who love watching speedway at their local club.  If you have the money to invest in speedway to make it what you want it to be go ahead, if not ..........

Problem is trees those who love watching speedway are reducing every year and nothing is being done to entice news people in

[frigbo]

5 hours ago, Trees said:

The way to go is out of the forum m8 :D. Leave it to those who want the sport to survive and who love watching speedway at their local club.  If you have the money to invest in speedway to make it what you want it to be go ahead, if not ..........

Problem is 'Trees', your type of blind optimism of 'carry on regardless' has given promoters licence to simply continue down the crumbling path the sport now finds itself on...

They have treated punters with disdain for years, as they believed they will still blindly turn up each week and suck-up whatever dross was chucked at them under the guise of 'professional team sport'

 

[Ray Stadia]

40 minutes ago, frigbo said:

Problem is 'Trees', your type of blind optimism of 'carry on regardless' has given promoters licence to simply continue down the crumbling path the sport now finds itself on...

They have treated punters with disdain for years, as they believed they will still blindly turn up each week and suck-up whatever dross was chucked at them under the guise of 'professional team sport'

 

That seems to suggest that the promoters 'trouser' a nice little earner from speedway, when reality is, most, if not all, lose money. The biggest problems for speedway over a fair number of recent years, is crowd levels have gone down, while costs for promoters have gone up. That circle can't be squared. Maybe some promoters do lack charm and appear to have a 'take it or leave it' attitude, but if you are losing money, I think I might be a bit cheesed off! It's been said so many times, the riders are paid too much, which will be the promoters biggest overhead. Yes, the riders deserve to earn good money, as they are the ones on the track, but if the money isn't coming through the turnstiles, why should they bleed the promoters, the fans (with constantly increasing admission charges) and the sport dry! The riders need to get back to being semi professional. Yes, one bike strapped onto a bike rack, on the back of a Ford Focus!  

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

I always use 1990 as a benchmark for the decline in UK speedway. My first full proper season as a fan aged 12.

I have been looking back though the archives.

1990 saw 26 professional clubs split into 2 leagues the old British league 9 clubs & the national League of 17 clubs.

The British championship was contested by 48 British riders starting with a  quarter final stage. Compare that to today.

18 professional clubs & a British championship where 16 riders are put straight into the final as there aren't enough to do any thing else.

1990  182 team spots with no doubling up 2021 126 team spots where I believe 123 of those are held by doubling up riders. Also let's not forget that in 1990 those 26 league clubs all had junior League teams with an additional 4 spots per team.

1990 plenty of opportunity to ride, speedway in various formats alongside the league format eg 4 team championship & best pairs. I think that season my track Ipswich had 30 home meetings. Oh what happy days. 

The only real beacon of hope in that time was the early part of Sky's involvement I think by 2005 so 6 years in with sky it was clear that there wasn't any plan or indeed desire to do anything different....what a missed opportunity!!!

Although on the decline it's been the past 10 to 15 years where the real damage has been done.  

The big decline really started in 1985 when the British League lost (I think) 5 teams, dropping from 16 down to 11. The set-up was never healthy from that point onwards, and even though the National League gave the appearance of being vibrant for a while, the lack of cooperation and understanding that the health of both leagues depended on each other, ultimately dragged the sport further under. 

Doubling-up is not an issue if it's to cover for injuries and to give lower league riders experience of riding in the top flight, and as such the antipathy between the BL and NL which led to a refusal to use riders in the other league was really quite pathetic and led to the ever-increasing professionalism of the NL which eventually forced some of those tracks to fold. Doubling-up is only an issue if it's employed because of a fundamental lack of riders to fill all the teams. 

You could also point to 1989 when the BL decreased again to 9 teams, the BL/NL merger in 1991 that was vehicle to get Poole into the top league, the even more ill-fated 'one big league' BPL in 1995, followed by the introduction of the BEL in 1997. Endless tinkering that's did nothing to address the underlying issues or have an resemblance of longer term thinking.

[steve roberts]

24 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The big decline really started in 1985 when the British League lost (I think) 5 teams, dropping from 16 down to 11. The set-up was never healthy from that point onwards, and even though the National League gave the appearance of being vibrant for a while, the lack of cooperation and understanding that the health of both leagues depended on each other, ultimately dragged the sport further under. 

Doubling-up is not an issue if it's to cover for injuries and to give lower league riders experience of riding in the top flight, and as such the antipathy between the BL and NL which led to a refusal to use riders in the other league was really quite pathetic and led to the ever-increasing professionalism of the NL which eventually forced some of those tracks to fold. Doubling-up is only an issue if it's employed because of a fundamental lack of riders to fill all the teams. 

You could also point to 1989 when the BL decreased again to 9 teams, the BL/NL merger in 1991 that was vehicle to get Poole into the top league, the even more ill-fated 'one big league' BPL in 1995, followed by the introduction of the BEL in 1997. Endless tinkering that's did nothing to address the underlying issues or have an resemblance of longer term thinking.

...John Berrry was often quoted as saying that Poole supremo Mervyn Stewksbury had his own agenda and was one of the worst things to happen to speedway in recent history.

[frigbo]

Absolutely agree, 1985 was the start of the downward slope....

1995 one big league and then the Sky money offered two great opportunitues to reset, re-plan and move forward - both were squandered.

[steve roberts]

15 minutes ago, frigbo said:

Absolutely agree, 1985 was the start of the downward slope....

1995 one big league and then the Sky money offered two great opportunitues to reset, re-plan and move forward - both were squandered.

...I was fortunate, at least, being an Oxford fan as we entered our most productive period honours wise and was reflected in crowd levels at Cowley and generated interest at away venues. At least I have some great memorable moments to look back on!

[Humphrey Appleby]

5 minutes ago, frigbo said:

1995 one big league and then the Sky money offered two great opportunitues to reset, re-plan and move forward - both were squandered.

The problem was that a 'top league' was just was much needed as a lower league to protect it against inflationary pressures. There were always more successful tracks that could run with higher costs, and with a single league that dragged up the costs of the other tracks in order to be half-competitive.

Of course, so many tracks had disappeared that I think the sport was down to about 21 in 1995, so it was barely possible to cobble together two leagues by that point. But the 'one big league' whilst providing more variety that was desperately needed, was too expensive for the lowest common denominator and merely accelerated the closure of tracks (I think a couple more had closed by the following season). That of course was the impetus for a (new) new National League, so the sport quickly ended-up effectively reverting back to two tiers.  

[steve roberts]

The British scene was never going to sit comfortably with the Grand Prix which began to make demands domestically and weekend speedway at the higher level was hit when a Grand Prix was being held and the regularity increased as the GP series expanded. Losing Friday/Saturday night speedway proved decivise for many promotions with the non-availability of riders.

Edited August 24, 2021 by steve roberts

[Humphrey Appleby]

58 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

The British scene was never going to sit comfortably with the Grand Prix which began to make demands domestically and weekend speedway at the higher level was hit when a Grand Prix was being held and the regularity increased as the GP series expanded. Losing Friday/Saturday night speedway proved decivise for many promotions with the non-availability of riders.

But again, the SGP was a missed opportunity for British speedway. Instead of allowing a private promoter to skim off what little cream there was in the sport, the major professional leagues could have run the competition for their own benefit. 

The demands of international cricket mean that the top players have rarely appeared in county cricket for the past 20 years, but at least the millions that the England team generates largely goes to the counties. Speedway isn't in anywhere near the same league in terms of revenue (maybe a million or so in profit per year), but precisely nothing came back from the SGP to compensate for the loss of Friday and Saturday racing. 

[steve roberts]

7 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

But again, the SGP was a missed opportunity for British speedway. Instead of allowing a private promoter to skim off what little cream there was in the sport, the major professional leagues could have run the competition for their own benefit. 

The demands of international cricket mean that the top players have rarely appeared in county cricket for the past 20 years, but at least the millions that the England team generates largely goes to the counties. Speedway isn't in anywhere near the same league in terms of revenue (maybe a million or so in profit per year), but precisely nothing came back from the SGP to compensate for the loss of Friday and Saturday racing. 

...problem was/is the GP series creamed off the money that otherwise the BSPA got to see when they lost the one-off final and associate meetings and the money generated which proved invaluable to many promotions. The BSPA, as usual, were slow off the back foot and couldn't see the damage forthcoming and ignored the signs and only woke up when it came too late to do anything about it.

[mikebv]

The loss of weekend racing undoubtedly was a blow, but to not then do something about it was simply hari kiri..

It was the usual lack of clear, decisive, leadership, and instead, a cobbled together, make do and mend, halfway house, half arsed plan, of appeasement was delivered...

(And continues to thlis day)..

I truly believe many Promoters thought that the GP's were a 'fad' and that when it "inevitably disappeared" everything would go back to normal...

What it should have done then, and subsequently many times since, is plough it's own furrow, and be in charge of it's own destiny..

Instead promoters have spent 20 years or so, bending over backwards to accommodate riders who have become friends rather than employees in a lot of cases, and changing fixtures all over the place to allow them to follow their own individual ambitions...

It needed then (and still does today), some hard nosed business leadership that ensured tracks ran on the best nights to get their best crowd and their employees understood that they needed to be there...

Or ultimately decide to ply their trade elsewhere.. 

I can imagine there are still some in UK Speedway who blame the GP's for its demise, even around 25 years after it was launched..

I dont imagine Polish Speedway hold the same views, nor Sweden..

Both if which have done "more than ok" in the "GP Years"...

[Gambo]

9 minutes ago, mikebv said:

The loss of weekend racing undoubtedly was a blow, but to not then do something about it was simply hari kiri..

It was the usual lack of clear, decisive, leadership, and instead, a cobbled together, make do and mend, halfway house, half arsed plan, of appeasement was delivered...

(And continues to thlis day)..

I truly believe many Promoters thought that the GP's were a 'fad' and that when it "inevitably disappeared" everything would go back to normal...

What it should have done then, and subsequently many times since, is plough it's own furrow, and be in charge of it's own destiny..

Instead promoters have spent 20 years or so, bending over backwards to accommodate riders who have become friends rather than employees in a lot of cases, and changing fixtures all over the place to allow them to follow their own individual ambitions...

It needed then (and still does today), some hard nosed business leadership that ensured tracks ran on the best nights to get their best crowd and their employees understood that they needed to be there...

Or ultimately decide to ply their trade elsewhere.. 

I can imagine there are still some in UK Speedway who blame the GP's for its demise, even around 25 years after it was launched..

I dont imagine Polish Speedway hold the same views, nor Sweden..

Both if which have done "more than ok" in the "GP Years"...

Neither Poland nor Sweden used to ride on a Saturday, whereas Britain had the virtual backbone of their League(s), Coventry, Cradley, Eastbourne, Swindon, Bradford, King's Lynn to name a few, who had to lose their traditional (and most lucrative)  race night.

[mikebv]

16 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Neither Poland nor Sweden used to ride on a Saturday, whereas Britain had the virtual backbone of their League(s), Coventry, Cradley, Eastbourne, Swindon, Bradford, King's Lynn to name a few, who had to lose their traditional (and most lucrative)  race night.

Saturday tracks didn't lose their race night due to the GP's..

They chose to lose those race nights themselves...

To accommodate riders who had their own agendas to meet...

Riders who a few years later dropped the UK without a second glance..

Employees dictating opening hours..

Just like we still have today....

And it will never work...

 

[steve roberts]

29 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Neither Poland nor Sweden used to ride on a Saturday, whereas Britain had the virtual backbone of their League(s), Coventry, Cradley, Eastbourne, Swindon, Bradford, King's Lynn to name a few, who had to lose their traditional (and most lucrative)  race night.

I basically stopped going to Swindon travelling from Oxford as a neutral once it moved to Thursdays as it was more difficult fitting it around work.

[Gambo]

13 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Saturday tracks didn't lose their race night due to the GP's..

They chose to lose those race nights themselves...

To accommodate riders who had their own agendas to meet...

Riders who a few years later dropped the UK without a second glance..

Employees dictating opening hours..

Just like we still have today....

And it will never work...

 

They didn't have their 'own agenda' they wanted to be World Champion, and the only way they could achieve that was by joining the GP Circuit.

So you think that the likes of Hans Nielsen, Leigh Adams, Jan O Pedersen, Erik Gundersen etc. etc. should have said don't want to be World Champion, I want to ride for my British club on a Saturday.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Gambo

[steve roberts]

14 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Saturday tracks didn't lose their race night due to the GP's..

They chose to lose those race nights themselves...

To accommodate riders who had their own agendas to meet...

Riders who a few years later dropped the UK without a second glance..

Employees dictating opening hours..

Just like we still have today....

And it will never work...

 

I said at the time it would soon become a choice for riders to compete in either the British League or the GP's and for Promoters to best adjust to that scenario. There was the year when a rule was implemeted that decreed only one GP rider could ride for one particular team...it lasted the one year!