Hawk127 Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Deano said: Why not weigh up, what makes 20/20 and the one hundred more appealing to the none cricket fan. What was turning people off all day cricket? To me speedway is in it's pure element is a decent sport. The excitment is four riders together, riders alongside each other (in a safe way), a close result keeping people gripped until the end. A team you can call your own alongside that, a decent presenter keeping the crowd entertained as previously mentioned. A system needs to be found to support this in some way. Changing the rule book won't cut it! I agree with most of what you say but the description used is not going to work. You have promoters (leaping Len Silver or Dave Lanning) no longer allowed to wind up the crowd, character riders who were the baddies no longer exist except NP and the rest is muted compared to the 70’s and 80’s. What it needs is some excitement put back into the sport. For example using six riders run the first part of a meeting as two rider two lap match races, then run pairs and finally draw names randomly for one on one match races but with handicaps so that if a number one rider is drawn against a number six they start off a handicap. It needs something that is fast furious and snappy, not the gardening diehards who if an infringement at the start, go back and basically fart about for five minutes before a restart. What happened to the back to the tapes without the pit gate being opened. The current situation is pathetic throwback and will hardly excite the potential audience who don’t want inordinate breaks between four laps of processional racing. It needs some umph not the flop that league racing more often than not offers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 League racing will never give the buzz excitement or the drama while those who ride in opposition one night are team mates the next. The business model is flawed and everyone can see it except those that are in charge. The old like it or don't bother coming mentality will have only one outcome. Sadly that outcome is probably 5 to 10 years away at best. Whatever happens you can be sure it's all in the "interest of speedway" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 hours ago, chunky said: And a lot of people seem to want all that done in less than an hour... I'm sorry, but if I drive a few hours to watch a meeting, and spend that kind of money, I want more than a 45-60 minute show... The trouble is, it seems that no two speedway fans want the same thing. One wants team, and one wants individual. One wants it over in an hour, and one wants a full evening. One wants outside entertainment, and one doesn't. One wants good racing, and one wants a thumping home win. One doesn't care as long as it's exciting, and one only wants to see the top stars. It's why a finger needs to be stuck in the air at some point, but practicality tells us that evening sports events start at 7.30pm for a reason, and most people probably don't want to be in the stadium for more than a couple of hours if that. There's noise and light pollution reasons, public transport reasons, cold night air reasons, and simply because people might want to get to the pub for a round or two afterwards. I'd honestly find it hard to fathom that the majority would want less rather than more action, and you can work out in practical terms how quickly you can run races. 2 minutes to get everyone to the tapes, one minute for the race, 30 seconds for the celebrations and then stick on the 2 minute warning for the next race. Maybe 5 minutes every 4 races for grading and mini-intervals, which means you should easily be able to run 20 heats in around 90 minutes if the will was there. Split things up into a (say) 14-heat match, so those that want their one hour thing can bugger off straight afterwards, but put on a (say) 6-heat individual novelty competition for everyone else who wants the value for money. The British leagues can no longer afford the top stars anyway, so just structure the contracts and pay rates so the riders you do sign take the whole meeting seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, chunky said: And a lot of people seem to want all that done in less than an hour... I'm sorry, but if I drive a few hours to watch a meeting, and spend that kind of money, I want more than a 45-60 minute show... The trouble is, it seems that no two speedway fans want the same thing. One wants team, and one wants individual. One wants it over in an hour, and one wants a full evening. One wants outside entertainment, and one doesn't. One wants good racing, and one wants a thumping home win. One doesn't care as long as it's exciting, and one only wants to see the top stars. Exactly the point though isn't it. It's not about what you want to see or what I what to see. It's about providing what the vast majority want. Lowest common denominator stuff. That's why you get stuff like the Hundred. (Garish) Style over content. (Don't tell my boss) but I spent today watching the first day of the Lords test followed by Northern Superchargers vs Manchester Invincibles. (Absolutely terribly contrived teams to attract the widest fan base, you might as well refer to them as Popchips vs McCoys) Clearly the skills set and tactical nuances on display at Lords were far greater than the risk and reward slogfest which was the Hundred. But even though tonights match was a thumping home win and not even a contest it was still very watchable with lots of big hitting and then wickets tumbling. With presumably sane members of the public singing and dancing along to terribly cheesy tunes during the very short delays between sets of five (not overs). Total escapism. Which is exactly what entertainment (not neccesarily sport) should be. If speedway is to reinvent itself it needs to appeal to these lowest commom denominators. Unfortunately for speedway for the masses the equivalent of a big six isn't a big five one it's a big crash. Interesting debate during the test match about scheduling of matches and how the ECB have introduced the Hundred because the game is too reliant of International matches subsidising the counties. Something speedway in this country could only dream off..... ....or is that the way forward??? A showpiece International tournament with a competitive GB team? Using the Hundred as a template you don't even need the best performers you just need non stop action over a couple of hours, merchanside, loud music, crowd interaction, booze by the looks of it. Nobody seems to be that bothered about the standard relative to the best in the world (must of the big name England players are now no longer in the competition [imagine if the Premiership started with all the GP stars but they all left once the SGP's started!!!]), as long as they can entertain. Nobody seems remotely bothered that the players have no affinity to the teams they represent. They're all double or even treble uppers. None of this matters because it's a great show. Can speedway in this country replicate it?? I doubt it. Edited August 12, 2021 by enotian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 I have often wondered if 2 lap races would be exciting or not, they didn't ought to let the riders get spaced out for sure. I love league racing (my team still exists) with two teams going hammer and tongues at each other and if every promotion has a good centre grey guy giving partisan commentary and banter involving the supporters from both teams that can make for a fantastic night out imo .... we generally don't have these guys at every club .... There's lots of other touches promoters can give to race nights too that don't cost a cent but which enrich the night for the fans. As for doubling up and down, we just have to do it at the mo, I personally don't have a problem as long as I think the guys are giving my team 100%, it never enters my head on a race night that he'll be racing for a different team tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 12 hours ago, chunky said: And a lot of people seem to want all that done in less than an hour... I'm sorry, but if I drive a few hours to watch a meeting, and spend that kind of money, I want more than a 45-60 minute show... The trouble is, it seems that no two speedway fans want the same thing. One wants team, and one wants individual. One wants it over in an hour, and one wants a full evening. One wants outside entertainment, and one doesn't. One wants good racing, and one wants a thumping home win. One doesn't care as long as it's exciting, and one only wants to see the top stars. Personally, for me, 90 mins is about the right amount of time, especially if I've travelled to a match as getting away at around 9pm means I can be on my way before the national road network closes down for overnight roadworks. 2 hours plus for 15 minutes of action is far too long. Why is the 2 minutes time allowance 2 mins? Because it always has been... make it a minute, 30 seconds... all too often it's left to whenever the ref decides to put it on, so frustrating when the time allowance doesn't go on until 1 rider actually enters the arena and then the 2 minutes goes on. Only time there should be 2 mins is when a rider has 2 consecutive rides (which possibly should be banned). The meeting should be run on a tight schedule not just left to drift along. There's far too much time when there's absolutely nothing happening, in fact I can't really think of another sport where's there's actually less of the stuff happening that you've actually gone to see. An Athletics meet would be an obvious comparison, an arena sport with competitors circling the track... but there's always field events going on to take a side interest in. And the track events are mixed up 100m, 110 hurdles, 200m, 400m, 400m hurdles, 800m, 1500m, 3000m steeplechase, 5000m, 10000m, that's 10 races and with the majority of them it's all about the last bend (not the first as in Speedway) and about 1 hour of actual track action. In reality it doesn't really matter what those that currently go want, they'll generally be there come hell or high water until health or death means they can no longer attend, it's those that don't go anymore that need to be quizzed to find out why not, there'll be many reasons, probably the main one being that it's too expensive for a family. For a "family sport" how many clubs actually offer a family admission package 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, iainb said: In reality it doesn't really matter what those that currently go want, they'll generally be there come hell or high water until health or death means they can no longer attend, it's those that don't go anymore that need to be quizzed to find out why not, there'll be many reasons, probably the main one being that it's too expensive for a family. For a "family sport" how many clubs actually offer a family admission package I dropped out for about three years recently. My last meeting was under the Phillips promotion at Perry Barr. I basically got sick to death of rider availability due to racing elsewhere for another team in the UK and the sports politics. There were accusations the website was being deliberately hacked and crashed, promotion arguing amongst themselves, son calling dad a bad businessman etc. If you blank yourself off from the rule book and it's internal political shinanigans, which I now do, you enjoy it. It's the stuff behind the scenes that drove me nuts and it was easier to just walk away and forget about it. I love the product, but the internet and what was out there was probably my problem with the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Deano said: I dropped out for about three years recently. My last meeting was under the Phillips promotion at Perry Barr. I basically got sick to death of rider availability due to racing elsewhere for another team in the UK and the sports politics. There were accusations the website was being deliberately hacked and crashed, promotion arguing amongst themselves, son calling dad a bad businessman etc. If you blank yourself off from the rule book and it's internal political shinanigans, which I now do, you enjoy it. It's the stuff behind the scenes that drove me nuts and it was easier to just walk away and forget about it. I love the product, but the internet and what was out there was probably my problem with the sport. Some truth in that... was looking at twitter earlier and somebody had posted a picture from the "centre green experience" at brumb on Wednesday and was saying what a great night and cracking meeting it was... I thought it was absolute garbage, not because of the internet mind, because I like to see what's actually going on, on the track and don't want to go home covered in dust. Different folk enjoy different things I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyHawk Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 20 hours ago, mikebv said: Best wishes to the IOW this evening, who decided that the current "offering" wasn't for them. and have gone away, been innovative, and are "loud and proud" about how they market and promote their business and (most importantly) the actual sport... As they realise the sport itself underpins, and holds together, all the other attractions they present.... Good luck to them but.....it's a sideshow, akin to a fiarground 'stunt show' type of event. Speedway should be a professional and serious sport and run like one. I don't like all the 'no breaks, no fear' stuff, it's amateurish and childlike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 10:53 AM, Wardey said: And a few handicap races never go amiss when properly planned.... Yes yes yes! every week on the island and in fact on Thursday 19th of Aug we have our Mark Cooper @Truly Independent Handicap individual with 15m and 30m handicaps... always a winner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 18 hours ago, chunky said: And a lot of people seem to want all that done in less than an hour... I'm sorry, but if I drive a few hours to watch a meeting, and spend that kind of money, I want more than a 45-60 minute show... The trouble is, it seems that no two speedway fans want the same thing. One wants team, and one wants individual. One wants it over in an hour, and one wants a full evening. One wants outside entertainment, and one doesn't. One wants good racing, and one wants a thumping home win. One doesn't care as long as it's exciting, and one only wants to see the top stars. This was yesterday's show.... it wasnt an hour it was 2 hours 45 minutes, of nonstop entertainment... In summary….. 3 x Pee Wee Races 2 x 125 Demo 3 x Lady Races Full parade and all individual rider intros 6 x Jawa V Weslake Races 15 x 3TT race Half Time Kids race Bruce Cribb Ice Bike Demo More Pee Wee and Revvi Demos Japs and upright demo Track grade every 5 heats Every race winner did a lap of honour Also Pits open for half an hour, centre green visits, bike display, free whistles and a lolly for kids, sweet stall, track shop... kids search around the stadium game invented by Rob Dyer. And all done by 9pm By the way 6 riders on display last night came through My First Skid Speedway School not including the youths… #FansFirst #everylapmatters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 2 hours ago, HackneyHawk said: Good luck to them but.....it's a sideshow, akin to a fiarground 'stunt show' type of event. Speedway should be a professional and serious sport and run like one. I don't like all the 'no breaks, no fear' stuff, it's amateurish and childlike I dont think so... one phrase you will never see on any IOW marketing is No Brakes, No Fear..... Our show is anything but unprofessional - read the feedback... It certainly is not a "Fairground stunt show"... We stage serious, highly rated brilliant evenings of motorsport and I gladly invite you and a friend as my guests to show you why myself - and pretty much anyone who has ever attended the Isle of Wight inside the BSPL or outside the BSPL think so to. We lead the way in marketing both locally, nationally and worldwide (BDC Darts world championships for example). Keep supporting your local club, and I am sure they we reinvest that support with some brilliant nights out. All the best and I really learn a lot from reading these pages as I have said before. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 I've never been to the Isle of Wight, so can't comment on whether it's for me or not, but blummin eck I think I want to! It's refreshing, not only to actually have a real life promoter frequent these forums but also somebody that actually talks their product up. Compare to these direct quotes on the BSPL website in the "what the fans say" section: "After moving away from my home town I lost track of the Speedway scene" "even though I don't go every week" "despite this being a testimonial" "lingering smell reminiscent of cooking oil." "It was generally thought by those who knew me best that it would not be "my cup of tea" "I didn't understand about helmet colours and teams and so on" "regulars at our home track Poole and at Swindon in the Phil Crump era." "the taste and the feeling in the air of the dust mixed together with the oil and fumes" "Speedway is modern day hunting" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF! "as much as we might moan about the lack of passing or whatever" "discussions maybe heated" "It was a trip on the train to Cradley Heath on July 18th 1970 that did it." "After being slightly concerned that a 20 year wait for the return of our famous Brummies may diminish my interest in the sport" "Our sport isn't the "beautiful game"... and it certainly isn't a noble art" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 1 hour ago, barrybishop said: This was yesterday's show.... it wasnt an hour it was 2 hours 45 minutes, of nonstop entertainment... In summary….. 3 x Pee Wee Races 2 x 125 Demo 3 x Lady Races Full parade and all individual rider intros 6 x Jawa V Weslake Races 15 x 3TT race Half Time Kids race Bruce Cribb Ice Bike Demo More Pee Wee and Revvi Demos Japs and upright demo Track grade every 5 heats Every race winner did a lap of honour Also Pits open for half an hour, centre green visits, bike display, free whistles and a lolly for kids, sweet stall, track shop... kids search around the stadium game invented by Rob Dyer. And all done by 9pm By the way 6 riders on display last night came through My First Skid Speedway School not including the youths… #FansFirst #everylapmatters That sounds great, Barry! I know that nobody wants a long drawn-out meeting full of lengthy breaks, but I can't understand those on here who wants everything done in under an hour. As I said, if I go somewhere to be entertained, I want some entertainment! I have driven all over the country to see speedway meetings, and if I thought everything would be over in 45 minutes, I probably wouldn't have been to half of them... That's why I used to love grass-track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 2 hours ago, iainb said: I've never been to the Isle of Wight, so can't comment on whether it's for me or not, but blummin eck I think I want to! It's refreshing, not only to actually have a real life promoter frequent these forums but also somebody that actually talks their product up. Compare to these direct quotes on the BSPL website in the "what the fans say" section: "After moving away from my home town I lost track of the Speedway scene" "even though I don't go every week" "despite this being a testimonial" "lingering smell reminiscent of cooking oil." "It was generally thought by those who knew me best that it would not be "my cup of tea" "I didn't understand about helmet colours and teams and so on" "regulars at our home track Poole and at Swindon in the Phil Crump era." "the taste and the feeling in the air of the dust mixed together with the oil and fumes" "Speedway is modern day hunting" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF! "as much as we might moan about the lack of passing or whatever" "discussions maybe heated" "It was a trip on the train to Cradley Heath on July 18th 1970 that did it." "After being slightly concerned that a 20 year wait for the return of our famous Brummies may diminish my interest in the sport" "Our sport isn't the "beautiful game"... and it certainly isn't a noble art" Those direct quotes made me laugh when I read the on the website a few days ago. As I said elsewhere those quotes are a mix of a dictatorships propaganda machine & someone who's high on something!! Certainly no real sane person ever said them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sidney Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 5 hours ago, HackneyHawk said: Good luck to them but.....it's a sideshow, akin to a fiarground 'stunt show' type of event. Speedway should be a professional and serious sport and run like one. I don't like all the 'no breaks, no fear' stuff, it's amateurish and childlike I was at the IOW meeting yesterday. It was anything but a sideshow. So much that others could learn by attending. If you get a chance to go then do. I defy any promoter to attend and not come away with a hatful of ideas that they could adapt to their own needs. The stadium is presented immaculately, the whole staff and volunteers are as warm and welcoming as you could want, whilst also being extremely professional The racing was very good and I would happily watch that evert week. Riders were out and ready to go as soon as the riders were in from the previous race. The riders interacted with the crowd The promoters seek feedback. Barry was out talking to people in the queue before the gates opened, he was talking to people at the ferry terminal whilst we were waiting for the 'speedway special' sailing, and he walked round the ferry lounge thanking people for attending. Martin was also talking to supporters on the ferry. If that is all a sideshow (and I have only touched the surface here ) it'll do for me - and I reiterate the speedway was plenty good enough as well. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: Those direct quotes made me laugh when I read the on the website a few days ago. As I said elsewhere those quotes are a mix of a dictatorships propaganda machine & someone who's high on something!! Certainly no real sane person ever said them It is laughable isn't it... Why they think those comments would attract any fans along I really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, iainb said: It is laughable isn't it... Why they think those comments would attract any fans along I really don't know. Couple that with the image of Godfrey doing that press conference in his caravan* a year or so ago I'm surprised that big business and the media aren't falling over themselves to be involved! Sorry not his caravan but in his front room with drawn curtains and very poor light Edited August 13, 2021 by cowboy cookie returns? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 I'll do nothing but applaud the IOW team BUT how much does it cost, do they generate more income than cost or are the Thursday night activities subsidised by other stadium events/activities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 It's great that you and your paying public enjoy your show Barry, non speedway fan holiday makers will definitely enjoy "the show" because that's who you are trying to attract. I 100% agree that all promoters could do more particularly in the summer holidays to appeal to the kids. I personally go to speedway to support my team and/or my fav riders. We run our Supporters Club with the fans in mind so, in normal times, we facilitate members going on the track walk, visiting the pits and having photos, doing the coin toss (with photo), watching a race from the centre, watching from a hospitality box, all sorts of competitions for the kids, free raffle for members, we have printed out A4 race cards for the kids, run a 50/50 draw every meeting, SUPERDRAW once a month, Member of the Week in the prog and online, run the End of Season party, we've done quiz nights and rider nights in the past. We wish our riders good luck online for every Stars meeting, we post about their Championship matches and scores etc. We currently take photos of our riders and put them online weekly. We buy our riders personalised artwork at the end of the season and chose members to present them, we run the rider of the year voting and our members present the trophies ..... It's amazing how big the list is when you promote everything you do .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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