Humphrey Appleby Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) I think speedway inherently needs to maintain the superficial simplicity of 4 riders over 4 laps, even if we know it's more complicated in practice. The basic rules of cricket are easy enough to understand and have been marketed that way for The Hundred, even though it can almost take a lifetime to understand the complexities. The basic problem with modern speedway is there's too little action, which translates into not enough races and too much hanging around between them. There should be absolutely no reason why you couldn't run a heat every 4 minutes under normal circumstances, so you could get 15 heats into an hour, and 20 heats into an hour-and-a-half (certainly an hour-and-three-quarters) including an interval and time for track grading. So how do you run those 20 races? I do agree that a 20-heat match wouldn't add much, particularly if it happened to be one-sided, but you could split things up into 14 or 15-heat match and then have 5 or 6 of novelty heats. That could be a handicap competition, an 8 or even 14 rider mass start 'points race' type of thing, a 'devil takes the hindmost' or even just a straightforward mini individual event that counts towards some sort of national competition. You'd less alienate the hardcore, but might actually attract a new audience if there was a bit of variety and not the same-old, same-old stuff. Some things may work and some might not, but if people aren't standing around bored, then they might notice less the cold weather and crappy stadium they're standing in, or the poor value for money. I don't really buy into the argument that it wouldn't work because the riders wouldn't take the novelty stuff seriously or want to get away after the match. Professional sport can't be run for the convenience of the competitors and you need to be structuring the contracts and payments around the concept of a complete meeting, including post-meeting obligations. F1 doesn't allow Lewis Hamilton to disappear off to his private jet as soon as he gets back to the pits after taking the chequered flag, so why should speedway? Edited August 11, 2021 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 Currently watching the cricket 100 on BBC 2 and not being a cricket fan, it is entertaining it is different and is nowhere near as boring as I remember cricket. Speedway needs to try something different. What speedway offers is old hat and suits the diehards but to attract a new audience, forget the current format. Speedway can be fast and furious but league racing does not cut with today’s potential audience and if you watch the way this form of cricket is presented, speedway could do the same with the same level of analysis when it comes to bikes and riders and use various formats for a race meeting with teams of seven riders and it could be so different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 Maybe more individuals could get involved running one off meetings? Why is it that only the BSPL should have the authority to run "UK Speedway"...? There are plenty of weeks when stadiums lie idle so couldn't "someone else" rent them and put on an event during some of those weeks? Similar to what the IOW are doing under another organisation? Landlords get more rent, riders get to earn more money, and Speedway (Shalesport?) fans get to see racing under a variety of guises.. As has been said, track cycling have many a combination of races that Speedway (Shalesport) could use... And a few handicap races never go amiss when properly planned.... I have watched Speedway in the United States and it is truly an 'event' where the town it takes place in is acutely aware of when it takes place (due to "proper local promotional work") and many of that town turn up to watch a mixture of ages compete from 'kids' to 'seniors', a mixture of scratch and handicap racing, and a mixture of types of bikes/sidecars being used.. All presented by someone on the centre green and in the stand, who are very comfortable at presenting and keeping the crowds interest during the gaps between races... Gaps that are deliberately kept to a minimum to ensure the momentum of the event remains high. One race finishes, then a lap of honour, and before the lap of honour ends the next bikes are out of the pits.. Team Speedway here in the UK has been around since around 1930 with barely a radical change (except handicap racing for a few years) in those ensuing 91 years... It's tired, it's contrived, it's not got any real meaning, nor has it any kudos, publicity or financial rewards for any of the clubs winning any of the competitions... So why keep carrying on flogging a dying horse? Even if "something different" doesn't work, it will only match what we have now as that doesn't work either.. What's that oft used definition of insanity? Doing exactly the same thing over and over and over again, and each time you do it, expecting a completely different result...? Maybe it needs putting on a very large car park banner at the next AGM venue, so all those attending can see it as they drive in... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 4 hours ago, PirateShip said: Think we need Eric Boocock to go promoting out in them oil fields again. You prove my point OveFundinFan, money needed to keep speedway seems mahoosive to us mere mortals but to these mega blue chip companies/individuals mainly from the oil industry it's a very miniscule typo on a spreadsheet. I honestly don't get it why speedway can't tap into it. Speedway could tap into it if it was run in a professional manner. Look at Poland those type of companies falling over themselves to be involved, multiple TV companies bidding for the TV rights. To stand any chance of getting those blue chip companies involved one of two things need to happen. Firstly the sport reinvents itself and becomes something that these companies want to be involved with that will take time. Secondly the sport draws up proposals to do something completely different and sells that vision to said companies although they would then be bound by a contract to deliver. You have to remember uk speedway had 10 plus years of lucrative TV contacts with sky and did absolutely nothing to reinvent it's self. If your were the board of a big blue chip company would you want your brand associated with uk speedway in its current guise? I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, mikebv said: Why is it that only the BSPL should have the authority to run "UK Speedway"...? They don't. Anyone can run a speedway meeting or even set up their own governance body. However, there's ultimately little or nothing to be gained from splintering governance and regulation of the sport, particularly in motorsport where there are more complex technical and safety standards. 'Alternative' sanctioning bodies often leech off the standards and utilise the trained officials of established bodies whilst claiming they're doing things cheaper and better, but it's rarely a sustainable far less improved model. I agree that pressure sometimes needs to be exerted on a sanctioning body to implement needed reforms, but in the long run no-one really wins when everyone is just doing their own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said: So how do you run those 20 races? I do agree that a 20-heat match wouldn't add much, particularly if it happened to be one-sided, but you could split things up into 14 or 15-heat match and then have 5 or 6 of novelty heats. That could be a handicap competition, an 8 or even 14 rider mass start 'points race' type of thing, a 'devil takes the hindmost' or even just a straightforward mini individual event that counts towards some sort of national competition. You'd less alienate the hardcore, but might actually attract a new audience if there was a bit of variety and not the same-old, same-old stuff. How about instead of awarding league points at the end of the night, you make EVERY race count towards the league, much in the same way they did with the GP's before they ruined it. So if you get a 5-1 you get 5 league points and the opposition get 1, maybe 10 bonus points for winning on the night or something like that... just thinking as I type 12 hours ago, mikebv said: All presented by someone on the centre green and in the stand, who are very comfortable at presenting and keeping the crowds interest during the gaps between races... Been to Brumb a couple of times this season and have been quite impressed with Ryan Guest, good to see some young blood coming up... not quite up to Porky standards yet though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbw Posted August 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) We need a 'guest' in for Porky! Edited August 12, 2021 by PirateShip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 The changing of heats/laps etc is a typical BSPA change... changing something that doesn't need thinking. A completely new governing body full of young, enthusiastic people with visions of making the sport value for money is what is needed to replace that berk Godfrey and his following. Where you find these people I do not know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) I saw someone talking about the Hundred on tv the other day and they said it was brilliant having the teams known by their nicknames - yet Speedway has been doing this for nearly a century. Speedway is a team sport. It needs to come across as a team sport and not just four blokes riding bikes round a track To many people that is all it is. There's not a lot wrong with the actual product, it just needs consistent teams (something that has been wrecked by Doubling up and low points limits) and to be presented in a way that makes you feel that you are watching a team sport. Instead, we just get "...and the winner in heat one, in red, in a time of blah blah blah..." while everyone fills in a programme. I know people don't all agree with me, but have a big scoreboard above the pits with the score on constant display. And show replays on it. It can't be that hard. Swindon used to show regular replays on televisions around the stadium a few years back. Then they had the great idea of stopping it. Make it feel like you are watching a sport between two teams. And encourage riders to have a bit of a barny, rather than banning them if they do. On a side note, I was speaking to a work colleague on Monday and mentioned that I'd watched the Speedway GP over the weekend. "I didn't think they had speedway any more" was his response. So clearly some marketing is needed too! Every cost cutting move they make takes more people off the gate. It has been doing so for years. Yet they keep doing it. We now have a top league of 6 teams with the same riders as in the lower tier. Mental. Edited August 12, 2021 by Grachan 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, Grachan said: I saw someone talking about the Hundred on tv the other day and they said it was brilliant having the teams known by their nicknames - yet Speedway has been doing this for nearly a century. Speedway is a team sport. It needs to come across as a team sport and not just four blokes riding bikes round a track To many people that is all it is. There's not a lot wrong with the actual product, it just needs consistent teams (something that has been wrecked by Doubling up and low points limits) and to be presented in a way that makes you feel that you are watching a team sport. Instead, we just get "...and the winner in heat one, in red, in a time of blah blah blah..." while everyone fills in a programme. I know people don't all agree with me, but have a big scoreboard above the pits with the score on constant display. And show replays on it. It can't be that hard. Swindon used to show regular replays on televisions around the stadium a few years back. Then they had the great idea of stopping it. Make it feel like you are watching a sport between two teams. And encourage riders to have a bit of a barny, rather than banning them if they do. On a side note, I was speaking to a work colleague on Monday and mentioned that I'd watched the Speedway GP over the weekend. "I didn't think they had speedway any more" was his response. So clearly some marketing is needed too! Every cost cutting move they make takes more people off the gate. It has been doing so for years. Yet they keep doing it. We now have a top league of 6 teams with the same riders as in the lower tier. Mental. A true race to the bottom isnt it Amazing such an operating and business model could ever be dreamt up, never mind actually implemented.. And then get implemented again... And again.. And again.. Ad infinitum... As you say.. Mental... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardey Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 14 hours ago, mikebv said: Maybe more individuals could get involved running one off meetings? Why is it that only the BSPL should have the authority to run "UK Speedway"...? There are plenty of weeks when stadiums lie idle so couldn't "someone else" rent them and put on an event during some of those weeks? Similar to what the IOW are doing under another organisation? Landlords get more rent, riders get to earn more money, and Speedway (Shalesport?) fans get to see racing under a variety of guises.. As has been said, track cycling have many a combination of races that Speedway (Shalesport) could use... And a few handicap races never go amiss when properly planned.... I have watched Speedway in the United States and it is truly an 'event' where the town it takes place in is acutely aware of when it takes place (due to "proper local promotional work") and many of that town turn up to watch a mixture of ages compete from 'kids' to 'seniors', a mixture of scratch and handicap racing, and a mixture of types of bikes/sidecars being used.. All presented by someone on the centre green and in the stand, who are very comfortable at presenting and keeping the crowds interest during the gaps between races... Gaps that are deliberately kept to a minimum to ensure the momentum of the event remains high. One race finishes, then a lap of honour, and before the lap of honour ends the next bikes are out of the pits.. Team Speedway here in the UK has been around since around 1930 with barely a radical change (except handicap racing for a few years) in those ensuing 91 years... It's tired, it's contrived, it's not got any real meaning, nor has it any kudos, publicity or financial rewards for any of the clubs winning any of the competitions... So why keep carrying on flogging a dying horse? Even if "something different" doesn't work, it will only match what we have now as that doesn't work either.. What's that oft used definition of insanity? Doing exactly the same thing over and over and over again, and each time you do it, expecting a completely different result...? Maybe it needs putting on a very large car park banner at the next AGM venue, so all those attending can see it as they drive in... And a few handicap races never go amiss when properly planned.... Yes yes yes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbw Posted August 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 Kevin Pietersen was asked what he like most about the Hundred and his reply said it all, the interaction with the fans. The show that is put on is chalk and cheese in comparison with speedway. The fireworks, the big screens, the light show, music both live and recorded, big entrances for the players. PLUS it's not only shown on Sky but also the occasional match is also shown live on BBC 2!!!!! Just everything makes speedway look boring to the outsider and also to many inside the sport. In 2019 KP Snacks signed a £4million 5 year deal with the ECB to sponsor the competition. Wonder who is the ECB marketing director, speedway could do with him. Speedway come on get your act together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardey Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 Wheres the money coming from? Both sports are chalk and cheese in alot of aspects 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 Why not weigh up, what makes 20/20 and the one hundred more appealing to the none cricket fan. What was turning people off all day cricket? To me speedway is in it's pure element is a decent sport. The excitment is four riders together, riders alongside each other (in a safe way), a close result keeping people gripped until the end. A team you can call your own alongside that, a decent presenter keeping the crowd entertained as previously mentioned. A system needs to be found to support this in some way. Changing the rule book won't cut it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Grachan said: I saw someone talking about the Hundred on tv the other day and they said it was brilliant having the teams known by their nicknames - yet Speedway has been doing this for nearly a century. but people in general know what cricket is, speedway still being around is a big secret 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) The fundamental issue is that if you decided to 'invent' a team sport, and Speedway was the outcome of your invention, would any one run it in any way shape or form as it is ran (in the UK), today. ? Of course not... If you went on Dragons Den, or went to the bank for a start up loan, with your business plan and operating model, you would be laughed out of the respective rooms... Yet 19 Promoters, you can only presume, must see what they do as totally 'fit for purpose' in the 24/7, multi media, 'wow factor' led world of 2021.... To be allowed to 're-invent' itself there would firstly have to be an acknowledgement from these 19 leaders of the sport that what we have today isn't delivering what a product with such "strong raw materials' should.. And we know that isn't going to happen any time soon.... Best wishes to the IOW this evening, who decided that the current "offering" wasn't for them. and have gone away, been innovative, and are "loud and proud" about how they market and promote their business and (most importantly) the actual sport... As they realise the sport itself underpins, and holds together, all the other attractions they present.... Edited August 12, 2021 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 7 hours ago, Grachan said: Every cost cutting move they make takes more people off the gate. It has been doing so for years. Yet they keep doing it. We now have a top league of 6 teams with the same riders as in the lower tier. Mental. This can be easily achieved by buying out all of those "it's great as it is now, don't change anything" promoters and club owners because while they remain in it - for whatever reasons they do - you can be sure that nowt will change and speedway will run itself into the ground before long. Yes it can and needs to reinvent itself and standard equipement is one of the cornerstones. So that rider skills come to the fore, providing a racing surface is laid down to encourage real racing on those more basic bikes. Meaning that it is NOT all over after the first two turns! I will just dream on unless my Euromillions ticket comes up with the necesaary £100 million to ensure the re-invention truly happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 5:36 PM, PirateShip said: I remember at Long Eaton once there was a circus in town and Johno went round the track on a camel. That's entertainment, that's entertainment.........i feel a song comin on! Bet that put a few hundred on the gate........of the circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) Sorry speedway does not need re-inventing the promotion of the sport needs re-inventing and the blueprint for it is already in place. One has to look no further than Barry Bishop and co of the Wightlink Warriors / Wightlink Wizards speedway club and the way they promote the sport not just on the island but across the board. Speedway GB effectively forced them out of the league with their accept this or pi$$ off attitude and when they did go and they joined another proper recognised organisation they still tried putting obstacles in there way to stop them running. And running they are putting on a show that attracts the crowds that enjoy the show and keep on coming back for more just look at the amount of races / entertainment the crowd get to enjoy for the same few hours that other tracks take to run 15 heats. (I bet the IOW get a bigger crowd to watch the tractor grade the track than some clubs get to watch a match). NO speedway doesn't need re-inventing its just the dinosaurs running this great sport (Directors and Promoters) that need re-educating or removing so someone / some people with a vision and understanding that the way its being run now and has been run for years is way past its sell by date. Speedway is a sport BUT the general public want ENTERTAINMENT for the dosh there spending and that is not just 14 riders over 15 races (and possibly 2 or 3 of the same riders with a different opposition vest on every match) Rant over. Edited August 12, 2021 by tonyd 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 12, 2021 Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 hours ago, tonyd said: Speedway is a sport BUT the general public want ENTERTAINMENT for the dosh there spending and that is not just 14 riders over 15 races And a lot of people seem to want all that done in less than an hour... I'm sorry, but if I drive a few hours to watch a meeting, and spend that kind of money, I want more than a 45-60 minute show... The trouble is, it seems that no two speedway fans want the same thing. One wants team, and one wants individual. One wants it over in an hour, and one wants a full evening. One wants outside entertainment, and one doesn't. One wants good racing, and one wants a thumping home win. One doesn't care as long as it's exciting, and one only wants to see the top stars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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