Speedway to reinvent itself?

[jenga]

2 lap races !  

riders will spend more time gardening than racing . 

why not give the riders extra points on their teams total when a rider gets to the tapes first, and so on .

pretty soon we will all be gardening and growing our own food . thats the only type of gardening i would like to see . wonky veg n all that. .

 

farmers were ploughing wonky carrots back into their land  cos supermarkets wanted perfect products for the customers ..

its time to plough the greedy mob back into the soil and start a new crop of non greed .exciting riders .

speedway id goosed as we used to know it ..

its a ten pund sport all day long .

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

Sums it up perfectly for me.

It could actually be both things if they were done properly.  But what it can't be is individual riders trying to earn as much as they can from whatever team masquerading as a team sport.  Which is what it has become.

But that's the crux of it.  How do you go from the current situation where the pool of riders are in two leagues and guesting earning from 50 plus fixtures to restricting them to say 30 fixtures if there was one big league.  It's a 40% pay cut.  Or it's £8 more on the entrance fee. The numbers don't add up anymore.

I've said for ages that the pay per points is counter productive in a team scenario. Does not incentivise team riding which is why it no longer exists. Why not have a purse for each heat (different values depending on which heat it is i.e. £200 for heat two £1,000 for heat 15). The purse is split between the teams based on the heat result (50:50 for a 3-3, 70:30 for a 4-2 and 90:10 for a 5-1). If you're a heat winner in a £1,000 heat you earn £500 in a 3-3, £525 in a 4-2 and £540 in a 5-1.

Even promote it in that way.  I guess back in the day discussing money was frowned upon (probably because of the unfair class system in this country but that's a different debate) but now the reality is everything is about money. So why not embrace it. The obvious problem is how many people would be impressed by a £1,000 prize pot (just using that for illustrative purposes).  I guess there's nothing wrong in promoting it as a £10,000 heat, just not mentioning there was a £9,000 entry fee .

The point is you can see how it would promote team riding and teamwork which would hopefully improve the on track product. A different dynamic.

Of course it still doesn't get you away from the problem of reducing the riders earning capacity as a result of reducing the number of meetings they can ride in.

The only way for me to meet the demands of the riders, have a credible league, and have enough riders, is five man teams in the top league..

12 teams, 60 riders, all getting six rides a night..

Home and Away twice, meaning 44 matches, which equal 264 rides to make your money..

No make weights, all 4 points and over riders, and a clear demarcation in structure from the 2nd Division which would be similar to the NL that was in place pre Covid..

With the IOW, that's 8 teams in the 2nd Division, maybe seven riders per team to ensure plenty of team spaces for developing riders..

Professionals in Division One and Semi Pros/Developing riders in Division Two.

Maybe Sweden and Denmark will open up more past Covid and more riders will not require so many UK rides as currently, due to it being their only option...?

If so then more chance of some clear demarcation between leagues surely? Which can only bring that much required credibility..

 

[Hilly]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

I'd like to see what Barry could do as a Premiership promoter with meetings April-September or even Championship speedway. Would the worldwide sponsors cover the costs? 

I think if Premiership, Championship and NL promoters only had to promote a few summer shows it would be a piece of cake!

I don't want my club going this way 100%, I want league racing with the best riders involved possible. Yeah I'd like a few initiatives that Barry offers but when our promoter is trying to get the meeting done and dusted by 9/9.30pm on a chilly school night in April it's a different kettle of fish to August school holidays!

I'd love to see Barry be able to promote any potential return of Oxford. 

[Trees]

1 hour ago, Hilly said:

I'd love to see Barry be able to promote any potential return of Oxford. 

No doubt he has the chance?

[steve roberts]

15 minutes ago, Trees said:

No doubt he has the chance?

A lot would depend on who takes on the responsibility and finance of upgrading the stadium? It's very admirable those volunteers who are involved (as I would be if I lived close by) who are doing great things but money will have to be found making the buildings/structures safe and everything else when mananging a stadium. When I saw a photo inside the main grandstand it looked to be in a shocking state of disrepair. It may well be the plan to limit  the public to areas where substancial upgrading is at a minimum certainly in the near future with plans to expand the project when things become more clearer?

[Thornaby48]

It is all well and good bringing in novelty speedway of 2 laps or 3 man teams etc. People want to see their 7 man team ,no guests, riding in a league or the cup. Make the racing exciting. Every race has 4 riders of varying standard, usually 2 heat leaders and 2 second string so we end up with 2 races in each heat and the first out of the gate wins ,especially on the large tracks. I feel that handicap racing is the future based on the riders average thus giving the “second string” riders a chance to be competitive for at least the first lap. This could also help to produce “team riding”  (Which is a lost art) if the heat leader can protect his partner from the attacking opponents. Surely this is the excitment needed in speedway. 

[JamesHarris]

Does Speedway need to re-invent itself? Short sharp answer to that is NO. Does British Speedway need to re-invent the way it is run - YES!. 

Speedway is both an individual and team sport and that is how it is successful in Poland, Sweden and Denmark. The Poles have owned it. The Swedes have maintained it. The Danes have consistently been good at it.  The British have diluted it. 

[lbw]

17 hours ago, iainb said:

Be kind 

I was 

[Red Flag]

On 8/13/2021 at 6:54 PM, Skidder1 said:

I'll do nothing but applaud the IOW team BUT how much does it cost, do they generate more income than cost or are the Thursday night activities subsidised by other stadium events/activities?

And what attendance do they actually get

[Falcon1983]

The only way to push team riding would be to change the points system to 4-3-2-0 but then in most heats you'll see riders settle for 2nd and 3rd, and I want to see racing, maybe this format could be used in development league racing only so educate and encourage team riding from a young age 

[Halifaxtiger]

On 8/13/2021 at 1:01 PM, HackneyHawk said:

Good luck to them but.....it's a sideshow, akin to a fiarground 'stunt show' type of event.  Speedway should be a professional and serious sport and run like one.

I don't like all the 'no breaks, no fear' stuff, it's amateurish and childlike

I actually agree with the professional, serious sport bit.  But what that says is sticking to the same old methods and formats - that, frankly, are clearly not working. 

 As examples, Newcastle and Birmingham have been to the brink of closure this year. I am reliably informed that Eastbourne are in serious financial trouble.

In sharp contrast, a friend of mine who has watched speedway on the Island since it opened in the 1990's told me that the last two attendances at Smallbrook are amongst the biggest he has ever seen there. The Warriors are definitely doing something right and if that is what it takes to get people in, lets do it. 

One final thing. Speedway is a serious, professional sport but it most certainly has not been run like one for years, and that is one major reason why it is on its knees. 

 

23 hours ago, steve roberts said:

If I ever re-visited the Island (I haven't been since the early nineties) I would certainly visit the speedway there...sounds a lot of fun to me!

Seeing is believing, Steve. I have been banging the drum for the Isle of Wight promotion since a cold April night in 2016 when I went to the second meeting after they re-opened and was hugely impressed with the enthusiasm, professionalism and hard work put in by the promotion to ensure that I, as a paying customer, had a good time.

In all the meetings I have been to since - and that's a large number considering it is nigh on 250 miles from my home -  they have never wavered.

One rather obvious point : Barry Bishop is on here, engaging with paying customers, giving his viewpoints and hearing ours.

How many others do that ?

23 hours ago, Trees said:

I'd like to see what Barry could do as a Premiership promoter with meetings April-September or even Championship speedway. Would the worldwide sponsors cover the costs? 

I think if Premiership, Championship and NL promoters only had to promote a few summer shows it would be a piece of cake!

I don't want my club going this way 100%, I want league racing with the best riders involved possible. Yeah I'd like a few initiatives that Barry offers but when our promoter is trying to get the meeting done and dusted by 9/9.30pm on a chilly school night in April it's a different kettle of fish to August school holidays!

First of all, I'd remind you that Barry Bishop promoted Isle of Wight for 4 full NL seasons from 2016-19 and this is first time he has run a truncated programme. In doing so, he clearly took account of Covid restrictions - something the BSPL and the rest of the clubs effectively ignored and which has cost them very dearly indeed. 

I am sure Barry would do very well as a Premiership or Championship promoter but as part of his philosophy - unlike certain Championship promoters - is that income must cover expenses (or, at worst, that losses must be sustainable) he's never going to do that on the Island. The very fact that he has that philosophy marks him out.

My understanding is that Isle of Wight's last two meetings finished at 9pm. 

What you want is one thing - and I am sure that there will be many who agree - but what is best for the sport could be something very different. What seems to me to be certain is that you want to carry on exactly as before regardless of the fact that we know that simply isn't working. 

In terms of attendances, Isle of Wight have been hugely successful this season (my friend told me that the food outlets ran out on Thursday). Not to give consideration to their style of format would surely be foolish to the point of madness. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Halifaxtiger

[Trees]

9 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I actually agree with the professional, serious sport bit.  But what that says is sticking to the same old methods and formats - that, frankly, are clearly not working. 

 As examples, Newcastle and Birmingham have been to the brink of closure this year. I am reliably informed that Eastbourne are in serious financial trouble.

In sharp contrast, a friend of mine who has watched speedway on the Island since it opened in the 1990's told me that the last two attendances at Smallbrook are amongst the biggest he has ever seen there. The Warriors are definitely doing something right and if that is what it takes to get people in, lets do it. 

One final thing. Speedway is a serious, professional sport but it most certainly has not been run like one for years, and that is one major reason why it is on its knees. 

 

Seeing is believing, Steve. I have been banging the drum for the Isle of Wight promotion since a cold April night in 2016 when I went to the second meeting after they re-opened and was hugely impressed with the enthusiasm, professionalism and hard work put in by the promotion to ensure that I, as a paying customer, had a good time.

In all the meetings I have been to since - and that's a large number considering it is nigh on 250 miles from my home -  they have never wavered.

One rather obvious point : Barry Bishop is on here, engaging with paying customers, giving his viewpoints and hearing ours.

How many others do that ?

First of all, I'd remind you that Barry Bishop promoted Isle of Wight for 4 full NL seasons from 2016-19 and this is first time he has run a truncated programme. In doing so, he clearly took account of Covid restrictions - something the BSPL and the rest of the clubs effectively ignored and which has cost them very dearly indeed. 

I am sure Barry would do very well as a Premiership or Championship promoter but as part of his philosophy - unlike certain Championship promoters - is that income must cover expenses (or, at worst, that losses must be sustainable) he's never going to do that on the Island. The very fact that he has that philosophy marks him out.

My understanding is that Isle of Wight's last two meetings finished at 9pm. 

What you want is one thing - and I am sure that there will be many who agree - but what is best for the sport could be something very different. What seems to me to be certain is that you want to carry on exactly as before regardless of the fact that we know that simply isn't working. 

In terms of attendances, Isle of Wight have been hugely successful this season (my friend told me that the food outlets ran out on Thursday). Not to give consideration to their style of format would surely be foolish to the point of madness. 

So what is their attendance? 200? 400? 500? 1k? 

Yes Barry ran NL meetings.

He took notice of covid restrictions and decided not to promote league racing so his outgoings were low? So he could only promote a few fun meetings in the summer? 

[Sir Sidney]

26 minutes ago, Trees said:

 

Yes Barry ran NL meetings.

He took notice of covid restrictions and decided not to promote league racing so his outgoings were low? So he could only promote a few fun meetings in the summer? 

You clearly haven't followed why it is that IOW are not in the NDL this year. It's nothing to do with covid restrictions. 

[chunky]

13 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

What you want is one thing - and I am sure that there will be many who agree - but what is best for the sport could be something very different. What seems to me to be certain is that you want to carry on exactly as before regardless of the fact that we know that simply isn't working.

FINALLY!!! Someone who sees the big picture!

One of the biggest problems on this forum is fans who want everything to suit them, regardless of feasibility and viability. Barry Bishop is doing what it takes to be a success, REGARDLESS of what some fans (who are living in the past) want.

[OveFundinFan]

What is needed is more promotors like Barry Bishop. Maybe not follow exactly his meeting style (he is promoting on an island with lots of holiday makers) but with his creative thinking and application. Speedway has got to get more youngsters involved. It was a family sport when I was took by my parents over 60 years ago, but from what I see now it’s mostly those that were there as kids back then and the youngsters are, in the main, missing. So some creative thinking needed to attract younger ones, to make the sport more cost effective for competitors, and make a profit for promotors to reinvest.

[IainB]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

So some creative thinking needed to attract younger ones, to make the sport more cost effective for competitors, and make a profit for promotors to reinvest.

It's easy, they just need to be kept engaged. How many times have you seen a kid at the Speedway and they just ain't interested in what's going on and they're just running around being a pain in the @rse.

15 mins engagement in 2 hours is tough for an adult, so what chance with a kid! It won't be for every kid and it's more difficult these days with with CRB checks etc. but ideally there should be a kids club on race night where parents could drop their kids off to have them indoctrinated in the ways of Speedway... like churches do with Sunday school.

Watching the kids on the centre green last week they seemed to be having a great time mucking about with Brummie Bear during the interval.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

9 minutes ago, iainb said:

It's easy, they just need to be kept engaged. How many times have you seen a kid at the Speedway and they just ain't interested in what's going on and they're just running around being a pain in the @rse.

15 mins engagement in 2 hours is tough for an adult, so what chance with a kid! It won't be for every kid and it's more difficult these days with with CRB checks etc. but ideally there should be a kids club on race night where parents could drop their kids off to have them indoctrinated in the ways of Speedway... like churches do with Sunday school.

Watching the kids on the centre green last week they seemed to be having a great time mucking about with Brummie Bear during the interval.

Wow! We have just added Sunday school into the mix on how to bring speedway into the 21st century, that can be added to "modern day hunting" & "the smell of cooking oil" on the what the fans say page!

[IainB]

1 hour ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Wow! We have just added Sunday school into the mix on how to bring speedway into the 21st century, that can be added to "modern day hunting" & "the smell of cooking oil" on the what the fans say page!

Unfortunately Speedway is about as "trendy" as going to church these days

[barrybishop]

Back to something positive with FEEDBACK - please read it all….

What a fantastic night. I thought I would just provide a few notes in feedback on my observations in case they are useful. Even now I could write twice as much and still have more to say
Customer Experience
Absolutely first class and something I have not experienced at speedway before.
I arrived at the stadium at about 4.30pm (taking account of Barry’s earlier message about the damp parking conditions). First impressions count and my first impression was of two extremely friendly and helpful car parking staff. I didn’t get either of the ladies names, but they set the standard for the visit and I couldn’t have been more impressed. An absolute credit to you. Of course, it didn’t stop there. Staff on the entrance, selling programmes, at The Retreat, during the event and on the way out of the stadium couldn’t have been more helpful, welcoming or more efficient. First class
The food at the Retreat was a better quality and value than at any speedway stadium I have been to. I don’t normally eat at stadia as the food is generally overpriced and poor quality, but made a point of doing so last night. I wasn’t disappointed, but glad I got in early as it was clearly popular. I’ll try the Premier Lounge next time.
I don’t think I have seen so many young people in a speedway stadium for years. Whistles, sweets, quizzes before they even get to the grandstand, centre green visits, running races on the track, Pee Wee races and My First Skid graduates in the main meeting – riders they can relate to and aspire to be. No wonder you have them coming back for more each meeting.
The stadium
Immaculate.
It frustrates me no end when I go to other stadia and they are unclean, grass uncut (either / or the centre green or the standing areas), dirty seats, toilets you don’t want to use and uncared for. None of that could be applied to Smallbrook. An absolute credit to you.
All the air fence panels clean, all the advertising A frames prominently positioned to maximise exposure. Your sponsors must be pleased.
The track
I’ve never prepared a track, so wouldn’t claim to be an expert, but it looked really good to me, especially given the weather we have had. I thought you applied enough water to keep the dust down, without making it too slippery for the riders. As far as I could see, the riders looked comfortable on the track – and given the range of abilities on show last night to prepare a track to suit all is a credit to your team.
Riders briefing
I was outside the pits when the rider briefing was taking place. The instructions you all gave to the riders were spot on. They could be in no doubt what was expected – entertain the crowd, acknowledge and engage the crowd, take the flag and do a lap of honour after winning a race and ensure you are ready to get out on track as soon as the previous race has finished. So often now riders go straight back to the pits after a race and don’t come round for the supporters so it was refreshing to see that that is part of the show, and your expectation. All building the relationship.
Pit walk
Always a good option if you can do it and I had the bonus of talking to Gordon Kennett
The racing
To get so many races run in such a short space of time was impressive, but never in doubt given the rider briefing and the standard set in the Pee Wee and Ladies races. Obviously that could be a challenge if there is an incident and that’s a risk in any form of motor sport.
I enjoyed the Pee Wee races – future stars in the making, and what an opportunity for them to ride in front of an appreciative and responsive crowd. In the ladies races I was quite glad that Steph Whitlock missed the gate in one, and then came from the back. Passing at an early stage – and this was only the pre-meeting!
The main event 3TT was entertaining, but also of a good standard – and, given the challenges you have had to face in permission to use riders, exceeded my expectations. It was unfortunate that Alex Spooner was not available, but seeing Chad, Danno, Luke, Charley and Connor supported by all the others on show ensured the racing was both competitive and exciting. Every race had interest. I was a bit sceptical about the  team manager handicapping option, because I feared that it would take away from the head to heads between the top riders – but Chad blew away that theory in heat 4 when he came from behind to beat Charley.
The Upright Challenge was a bit one sided, but that’s clearly based on rider and engine availability. Despite that, the two races where Nigel Coates came from behind to win, using the banking to great effect, were as well received in the grandstand as any other races. The one thing I think that would have helped the newer visitors understand why there were some older and more substantially built (!) riders in these races would have been a fuller explanation of the background to uprights v laydowns, and the background of the riders involved. There were a couple of new attendees near me, and others around them provided a bit of background which clarified it – only a minor point in the overall experience.
Bruce Cribb – well, what can I say. To ride one of those fearsome ice bikes at his age and I assume with limited practice was astounding. He may not be as quick as he once was but Bruce exceeded my expectations. Having seen the other ice bike on show on the first bend banking no one could have been in any doubt just how dangerous those spikes could be.
I confess I only caught a short sight of the JAP demo as I was out the back talking to others, but it did take me back to the late 60s and 70s when JAPs were still in regular use. Nothing like a bit of nostalgia.
I also liked the way in which you intersperse races from the different events during the programme.
Social media
So much content
Constant promotion of sponsors, regular updates, Facebook live – brilliant. Giving the fans up to date information and insight – essential in this day and age
Summary
A fantastic, positive night out. If I lived on the Island I would be there every week without a shadow of a doubt. If Wightlink re-instate the later Fast Cat I’d come more often.
To have a complete package in place that allows riders to come through the My First Skid programme, to progress to demos in front of a crowd and then into the Wizards and Warriors is brilliant. A real potential production line for British speedway.
I haven’t mentioned the entry price at all – but it was the best £12 I’ve spent for a while. The value for money was exceptional. About 30 races including the demos. Why the BSPL aren’t talking to you about your operating model is beyond me. I believe any other speedway (or event) promoter who came to one of your meetings, and also looked at all the social media content you put out, would be bound to find at least 1 or 2 ideas they could put into practice to improve their product.  
You have an absolutely incredible team working with you and I would like to say thank you to them all. Thank you to you both for putting the meetings on this year, and for taking the risk in doing so.

#TheWarriorWay

 

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, barrybishop said:

Back to something positive with FEEDBACK - please read it all….

What a fantastic night. I thought I would just provide a few notes in feedback on my observations in case they are useful. Even now I could write twice as much and still have more to say
Customer Experience
Absolutely first class and something I have not experienced at speedway before.
I arrived at the stadium at about 4.30pm (taking account of Barry’s earlier message about the damp parking conditions). First impressions count and my first impression was of two extremely friendly and helpful car parking staff. I didn’t get either of the ladies names, but they set the standard for the visit and I couldn’t have been more impressed. An absolute credit to you. Of course, it didn’t stop there. Staff on the entrance, selling programmes, at The Retreat, during the event and on the way out of the stadium couldn’t have been more helpful, welcoming or more efficient. First class
The food at the Retreat was a better quality and value than at any speedway stadium I have been to. I don’t normally eat at stadia as the food is generally overpriced and poor quality, but made a point of doing so last night. I wasn’t disappointed, but glad I got in early as it was clearly popular. I’ll try the Premier Lounge next time.
I don’t think I have seen so many young people in a speedway stadium for years. Whistles, sweets, quizzes before they even get to the grandstand, centre green visits, running races on the track, Pee Wee races and My First Skid graduates in the main meeting – riders they can relate to and aspire to be. No wonder you have them coming back for more each meeting.
The stadium
Immaculate.
It frustrates me no end when I go to other stadia and they are unclean, grass uncut (either / or the centre green or the standing areas), dirty seats, toilets you don’t want to use and uncared for. None of that could be applied to Smallbrook. An absolute credit to you.
All the air fence panels clean, all the advertising A frames prominently positioned to maximise exposure. Your sponsors must be pleased.
The track
I’ve never prepared a track, so wouldn’t claim to be an expert, but it looked really good to me, especially given the weather we have had. I thought you applied enough water to keep the dust down, without making it too slippery for the riders. As far as I could see, the riders looked comfortable on the track – and given the range of abilities on show last night to prepare a track to suit all is a credit to your team.
Riders briefing
I was outside the pits when the rider briefing was taking place. The instructions you all gave to the riders were spot on. They could be in no doubt what was expected – entertain the crowd, acknowledge and engage the crowd, take the flag and do a lap of honour after winning a race and ensure you are ready to get out on track as soon as the previous race has finished. So often now riders go straight back to the pits after a race and don’t come round for the supporters so it was refreshing to see that that is part of the show, and your expectation. All building the relationship.
Pit walk
Always a good option if you can do it and I had the bonus of talking to Gordon Kennett
The racing
To get so many races run in such a short space of time was impressive, but never in doubt given the rider briefing and the standard set in the Pee Wee and Ladies races. Obviously that could be a challenge if there is an incident and that’s a risk in any form of motor sport.
I enjoyed the Pee Wee races – future stars in the making, and what an opportunity for them to ride in front of an appreciative and responsive crowd. In the ladies races I was quite glad that Steph Whitlock missed the gate in one, and then came from the back. Passing at an early stage – and this was only the pre-meeting!
The main event 3TT was entertaining, but also of a good standard – and, given the challenges you have had to face in permission to use riders, exceeded my expectations. It was unfortunate that Alex Spooner was not available, but seeing Chad, Danno, Luke, Charley and Connor supported by all the others on show ensured the racing was both competitive and exciting. Every race had interest. I was a bit sceptical about the  team manager handicapping option, because I feared that it would take away from the head to heads between the top riders – but Chad blew away that theory in heat 4 when he came from behind to beat Charley.
The Upright Challenge was a bit one sided, but that’s clearly based on rider and engine availability. Despite that, the two races where Nigel Coates came from behind to win, using the banking to great effect, were as well received in the grandstand as any other races. The one thing I think that would have helped the newer visitors understand why there were some older and more substantially built (!) riders in these races would have been a fuller explanation of the background to uprights v laydowns, and the background of the riders involved. There were a couple of new attendees near me, and others around them provided a bit of background which clarified it – only a minor point in the overall experience.
Bruce Cribb – well, what can I say. To ride one of those fearsome ice bikes at his age and I assume with limited practice was astounding. He may not be as quick as he once was but Bruce exceeded my expectations. Having seen the other ice bike on show on the first bend banking no one could have been in any doubt just how dangerous those spikes could be.
I confess I only caught a short sight of the JAP demo as I was out the back talking to others, but it did take me back to the late 60s and 70s when JAPs were still in regular use. Nothing like a bit of nostalgia.
I also liked the way in which you intersperse races from the different events during the programme.
Social media
So much content
Constant promotion of sponsors, regular updates, Facebook live – brilliant. Giving the fans up to date information and insight – essential in this day and age
Summary
A fantastic, positive night out. If I lived on the Island I would be there every week without a shadow of a doubt. If Wightlink re-instate the later Fast Cat I’d come more often.
To have a complete package in place that allows riders to come through the My First Skid programme, to progress to demos in front of a crowd and then into the Wizards and Warriors is brilliant. A real potential production line for British speedway.
I haven’t mentioned the entry price at all – but it was the best £12 I’ve spent for a while. The value for money was exceptional. About 30 races including the demos. Why the BSPL aren’t talking to you about your operating model is beyond me. I believe any other speedway (or event) promoter who came to one of your meetings, and also looked at all the social media content you put out, would be bound to find at least 1 or 2 ideas they could put into practice to improve their product.  
You have an absolutely incredible team working with you and I would like to say thank you to them all. Thank you to you both for putting the meetings on this year, and for taking the risk in doing so.

#TheWarriorWay

 

I read this on Facebook! Is this just one customer?

...and approximately how much profit did you make yesterday or did you break even?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Skidder1