MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 Should these clubs be given a deadline to decide whether they're continuing the full season or not? Whilst I feel sorry for both clubs being in the position they are, every meeting the run with this hanging over their heads is also costing the away team for a fixture that may just be cancelled. That, along with the looking transfer deadline day, close after 31st and the riders have lost any chance of earning wages for other clubs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 It must be an impossible choice. Risk losing more money they can't afford to or pull the plug, probably get fined and almost certainly meaning no more Speedway at the venue for the future if ever. The BSPL are sitting on a lot of money according to their last Accounts wouldn't an immediate payment to all Clubs be more helpful. Godfrey and Bates were quick enough to trumpet Government help, with the exception of the 2 Scottish Clubs (under separate Governance) does anyone know of any Club that actually got a penny? The sum of £500k was mentioned, why wasn't that just split between 17 English Clubs as a Grant for the Sport as a whole rather than just a few Clubs. It would be interesting to see a CL table with all Newcastle and Brummies Results expunged, that might waken Godfrey out of his slumber. I was told last night by an ex Brummies rider from the 70's and 80's still involved; that all Tyres are now stored at Scunthorpe, Clubs have to go and collect them and pay Godfrey for them and if they can't collect them they are charged transport costs. What has the Sport become? Sad truth may be that once one Club actually jumps a number of others may quickly follow and the domino effect starts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Should these clubs be given a deadline to decide whether they're continuing the full season or not? Whilst I feel sorry for both clubs being in the position they are, every meeting the run with this hanging over their heads is also costing the away team for a fixture that may just be cancelled. That, along with the looking transfer deadline day, close after 31st and the riders have lost any chance of earning wages for other clubs The short answer is no and unfortunately this is where our sport is totally failing. The issue here is not that of Birmingham and Newcastle but is a problem for British Speedway and it’s about time the power that be started thinking about how to support and work together for the good of the sport in this country. It’s been far too long a sport driven by self indulgent individuals with their own agendas and the fact that teams are struggling is a result of years of mismanagement. The BSP Committee should be looking at how they support those teams that are struggling to ensure their futures, not giving them additional problems that could lead to two very established clubs closing their doors for good. Unfortunately the current mindset of some leading this sport will be more around ‘which riders can I sign if they close’ rather than how do we help them in their hour of need. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Viper said: The short answer is no and unfortunately this is where our sport is totally failing. The issue here is not that of Birmingham and Newcastle but is a problem for British Speedway and it’s about time the power that be started thinking about how to support and work together for the good of the sport in this country. It’s been far too long a sport driven by self indulgent individuals with their own agendas and the fact that teams are struggling is a result of years of mismanagement. The BSP Committee should be looking at how they support those teams that are struggling to ensure their futures, not giving them additional problems that could lead to two very established clubs closing their doors for good. Unfortunately the current mindset of some leading this sport will be more around ‘which riders can I sign if they close’ rather than how do we help them in their hour of need. Whilst I agree on some level that it's the mismanagement of British Speedway as a whole but I do personally feel promoters need to be held accountable too. Having been at Birmingham for their opening night, that whole fiasco was 100% the fault of the promotion putting on a substandard event and expecting people to just accept it. This deadline isn't meant as a threat. Maybe there needs to be some incentive and some honest talks. But scenarios like Eastbourne cancelling this week will happen more often. Would you risk losing money hosting a team that may end up out the league anyway? And whilst B & N gamble week by week as to if they get enough crowd to survive, the away team are left footing the wage bill for their own riders. I'm sure Plymouth could do without Crumpy and Pedersens wage bill from this Sunday if it turns out to be worth nothing, but they're sticking their necks on the line and committing to it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, HGould said: 1.The BSPL are sitting on a lot of money according to their last Accounts wouldn't an immediate payment to all Clubs be more helpful. Godfrey and Bates were quick enough to trumpet Government help, with the exception of the 2 Scottish Clubs (under separate Governance) does anyone know of any Club that actually got a penny? 2.The sum of £500k was mentioned, why wasn't that just split between 17 English Clubs as a Grant for the Sport as a whole rather than just a few Clubs. 3.I was told last night by an ex Brummies rider from the 70's and 80's still involved; that all Tyres are now stored at Scunthorpe, Clubs have to go and collect them and pay Godfrey for them and if they can't collect them they are charged transport costs. What has the Sport become? 1. Which Accounts? The one on Companies House is for period ending 31.1.20 and just shows assets of £10k and liabilities of £10k, net worth zero. 2. Now that is substantial, but mentioned where? 3. If true, that is outrageous Edited August 5, 2021 by woofers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Whilst I agree on some level that it's the mismanagement of British Speedway as a whole but I do personally feel promoters need to be held accountable too. Having been at Birmingham for their opening night, that whole fiasco was 100% the fault of the promotion putting on a substandard event and expecting people to just accept it. This deadline isn't meant as a threat. Maybe there needs to be some incentive and some honest talks. But scenarios like Eastbourne cancelling this week will happen more often. Would you risk losing money hosting a team that may end up out the league anyway? And whilst B & N gamble week by week as to if they get enough crowd to survive, the away team are left footing the wage bill for their own riders. I'm sure Plymouth could do without Crumpy and Pedersens wage bill from this Sunday if it turns out to be worth nothing, but they're sticking their necks on the line and committing to it. I can’t speak for Birmingham but certainly Newcastle have been majorly impacted by the Covid restrictions that have been imposed on them, not only by the local council but also the stadium owners which had majorly effected their cash flow. There is no negligence on the promotions part just the circumstances which no one could have ever predicted. I take your point on clubs paying riders but what is the other option here? - either the two clubs continue to run or they don’t. If they try to run then the financial pressure will always remain until the end of the season. If they close their doors then British Speedway has lost two more clubs moving forward, and they won’t be the last either. In the Eastbourne scenario then the key again is that you are stating they are losing money. This is just highlighting the problem isn’t just Birmingham and Newcastle. If Birmingham declare they are racing then where is the issue with that meeting taking place or whether they run a different meeting in its place. It goes back to the same thing, a majority of clubs are not making it pay and are losing money on every meeting they run. Newcastle and Birmingham have hit a point in which they have used up the contingency but other clubs are not far behind. The BSP and all clubs need to come together to work out a strategy for moving forward, supporting each other through this season and then the financial recovery needed to get over these last few years. If not then I’m afraid we will lose more and more clubs. We have 19 clubs in this country, a huge reduction on the number we had a decade ago and without a solid rescue plan we will be lucky to have 10 or 11 teams in a couple of seasons. British speedway is on its knees and only working together will stop it from completely falling over. Edited August 5, 2021 by Viper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Viper said: I can’t speak for Birmingham but certainly Newcastle have been majorly impacted by the Covid restrictions that have been imposed on them, not only by the local council but also the stadium owners which had majorly effected their cash flow. There is no negligence on the promotions part just the circumstances which no one could have ever predicted. I take your point on clubs paying riders but what is the other option here? - either the two clubs continue to run or they don’t. If they try to run then the financial pressure will always remain until the end of the season. If they close their doors then British Speedway has lost two more clubs moving forward, and they won’t be the last either. In the Eastbourne scenario then the key again is that you are stating they are losing money. This is just highlighting the problem isn’t just Birmingham and Newcastle. If Birmingham declare they are racing then where is the issue with that meeting taking place or whether they run a different meeting in its place. It goes back to the same thing, a majority of clubs are not making it pay and are losing money on every meeting they run. Newcastle and Birmingham have hit a point in which they have used up the contingency but other clubs are not far behind. The BSP and all clubs need to come together to work out a strategy for moving forward, supporting each other through this season and then the financial recovery needed to get over these last few years. If not then I’m afraid we will lose more and more clubs. We have 19 clubs in this country, a huge reduction on the number we had a decade ago and without a solid rescue plan we will be lucky to have 10 or 11 teams in a couple of seasons. British speedway is on its knees and only working together will stop it from completely falling over. Didn't Newcastle only run 2 home meetings under restrictions? Whilst that may have wiped out the pot along with other things, the crowd is still majorly down and that can be pinned on the promotion to some extent. The team being weak definitely won't be helping. I will never understand the argument of building an affordable team as you will always attract less crowd. The extra crowd pays the extra wage! I'm not stating Eastbourne are losing money. What I'm saying is they have announced they lose crowd due to the clash with the GP, and the weather is a threat (rain offs lose money). If say they were against Poole, or Glasgow they might take that gamble as it's part of speedway. But with it being Birmingham, maybe they're not willing to gamble as the club could close any second and the meeting deemed pointless anyway?! Edited August 5, 2021 by Marshall07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 Let’s face itö crowds at Birmingham,Newcastle and Eastbourne are going to double overnight therefore it is just a case of limiting losses or finding a major sponsor to bail them out.Not looking great but only they know the financial situation they are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 29 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Let’s face itö crowds at Birmingham,Newcastle and Eastbourne are going to double overnight therefore it is just a case of limiting losses or finding a major sponsor to bail them out.Not looking great but only they know the financial situation they are in. When you're gambling all your money at the casino but your wife's still paying her share of the bills, she's gonna divorce you at some point before you lose the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 How can the promoters sell a product that has no chance of paying it's way. If you can only attract 500 punters, then cut your cloth accordingly. The second tier is too strong and too expensive. The NDL should be run exclusively as a second half event to develop young riders. I don't know how some clubs can cover the cost of running two teams. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, cityrebel said: How can the promoters sell a product that has no chance of paying it's way. If you can only attract 500 punters, then cut your cloth accordingly. The second tier is too strong and too expensive. The NDL should be run exclusively as a second half event to develop young riders. I don't know how some clubs can cover the cost of running two teams. According to some there's been no negligence by the promotion but as you say, don't run two teams when you can't afford to even run one! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 2 hours ago, HGould said: Godfrey and Bates were quick enough to trumpet Government help, with the exception of the 2 Scottish Clubs (under separate Governance) does anyone know of any Club that actually got a penny? The sum of £500k was mentioned, why wasn't that just split between 17 English Clubs as a Grant for the Sport as a whole rather than just a few Clubs. I don't know why most clubs haven't jumped at the chance of a government loan and then just declare bankruptcy when the time comes to pay it back... there will be thousands of companies up and down the country doing just that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, iainb said: I don't know why most clubs aven't jumped at the chance of a government loan and then just declare bankruptcy when the time comes to pay it back... there will be thousands of companies up and down the country doing just that! How would that benefit them? They'd lose all riders, assets and their bond with the BSPA if they did that. Probably costing them more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Marshall07 said: Didn't Newcastle only run 2 home meetings under restrictions? Whilst that may have wiped out the pot along with other things, the crowd is still majorly down and that can be pinned on the promotion to some extent. Three; Edinburgh (KOC), Leicester and Scunthorpe (both league). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 33 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: How would that benefit them? They'd lose all riders, assets and their bond with the BSPA if they did that. Probably costing them more Start up a new company buy the assets, business as usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: According to some there's been no negligence by the promotion but as you say, don't run two teams when you can't afford to even run one! Should have ran in the NDL given the circumstances ,decent fans would have supported it in the hope they could move up again if viable in a couple of seasons.Plymouth seem to have done ok with that scenario.Berwick also done it in the 90/s Edited August 5, 2021 by Fromafar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 minute ago, iainb said: Start up a new company buy the assets, business as usual Clueless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 Just now, lewy said: Clueless You're just naive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, iainb said: Start up a new company buy the assets, business as usual Lose your rider base (which you have to have) lose your bond (to the tune of £50k) lose your voting rights 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Lose your rider base (which you have to have) lose your bond (to the tune of £50k) lose your voting rights or £300k in the bank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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