MARK246 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: Was it one of the Boococks, perhaps Nigel, that was testing out a BSA B50 engine (500cc) in a speedway bike. Alan Grahame also tested a BSA in 1974 Edited July 25, 2021 by MARK246 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, MARK246 said: Alan Grahame also tested a BSA in 1974 Alan Grahame actually raced it at the old Perry Barr track and it was successful unfortunately it was at the time when BSA was facing closure and the project ran out of money. Cheap stock petrol engined bikes could be very successful in providing the next generation of riders? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 I believe methanol was the chosen fuel, due to the additional power you get from methanol and the use of high compression pistons. When you take the head off a speedway engine, there is virtually no carbon deposits on the piston, the head or valves. And the ports are clean. Methanol used to be more expensive to buy, but I think it might be the same as petrol or even a bit cheaper now. As for the environment, it wouldn't surprise me if methanol is cleaner. It's used in power boat racing and speedway engines (2 valve Jawas and JAPs) used in pre 65 scrambles, they can and many do, use methanol.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) The main problem is methanol engines are specialised consequently it becomes expensive. A mass produced petrol engine put into a speedway frame is an ideal opportunity to create cheap racing for those who want to compete in all forms of oval racing bit of a no brainier for novices. Edited July 25, 2021 by Pieman72 Grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 My mate had a bike that ran on Calor Gas First time he rode it he did a wheely for 4 laps because of the weight of the bottle on the rear mudguard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 I think Rich is spot on, methanol allows high compression and big flywheels which not only gives the right sort of power needed but a lot of engine braking too. The problem with road engines (or MX etc) on Speedway has always been the lack of flywheel effect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) good topic on the fuel used by the bikes . i would say all the replies are correct and as one poster said , petrol burns at a higher temp . meth requires a jet in the carb as big as the average mans a**e . i do think that some of the large four stroke engined are very reliable (KTM) and could well take a place in speedways revival . you dont need all the latest stuff to make money at speedway.     get a part time job ! ! !  do they have flywheels on speedway bikes., are they not built into the crank ?  Edited July 25, 2021 by jenga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 I'm not mechanically minded at all so a lot of this talk is going over my head regarding compression and fly wheels etc. If methanol has been used as the fuel since Speedway's birth, which I assume it has, hasn't technology caught up now to provide the same effect/power from petrol engines. Doing a quick google search it says a Speedway 0-60 is 3 seconds, a Superbike 0-60 is 2.5 seconds. Probably a lot more to it than that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 Methanol is a bio fuel so any thoughts of using petrol instead should be binned straight away. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, OGT said: Methanol is a bio fuel so any thoughts of using petrol instead should be binned straight away. Wood is a bio fuel. Perhap we should try steam power?  I'll get my coat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOS50 Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 20 minutes ago, False dawn said: Wood is a bio fuel. Perhap we should try steam power?  I'll get my coat I assume you know that methanol used to be known as wood alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) Speedway has a tendency to take the view 'if it aint broke don't fix it'. The JAP engine was a prime example even in the 1950's it was a throwback to the 1920's but speedway persisted with something that should have been on the London to Brighton run. It think to have different engines fuels and formats could revitalise are tired sport. A bit more racing would hurt either. Edited July 26, 2021 by Pieman72 Grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbuck Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 I think if there were ever to be any plans to use petrol engines for speedway bikes there would be immediate and probably insurmountable problems with the environmental police so I wouldn't advocate taking this step myself! ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Don't we have enought problems with bike tyres at the moment without considering changing everyone over to a petrol engine ? Such a move would have to come from theFIM I guess to ensure ALL speedway ran on petrol engines , or we would have even higher costs for riders havign to have 2 sets of engines ! Dont see any savings for riders only increased costs. Don't see anything but negatives for changing to petrol when the world is heding towards electric powered engines ........ mmm now there's a thought (only joking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Why is their even a discussion about petrol, that time has gone & wouldn't be approved by any association today. All new or change of use motorsports have to use electric or eco fuels according to government regulations 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Why is their even a discussion about petrol, that time has gone & wouldn't be approved by any association today. All new or change of use motorsports have to use electric or eco fuels according to government regulations Why not there is the Formula Honda Grasstrack Club running 250 Honda's. What association are you talking about. When there are millions of cars burning petrol I don't think there is an environmental argument. Oh this bunker mentality no wonder speedway's in this dire position. Speedway needs change and it's beginning to happen. Edited July 27, 2021 by Pieman72 Grammar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Do "junior" Speedway bikes (non 500cc) run on methanol also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, iainb said: Do "junior" Speedway bikes (non 500cc) run on methanol also? No junior grass bikes generally use petrol and the 1000cc Sidecars use petrol. There isn't a problem. 500cc laydown methanol burning speedway bikes are expensive to buy , run and maintain and are generally a bespoke item. Edited July 27, 2021 by Pieman72 Grammar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 But there still isn't a petrol engine I know of that has or even has room for the flywheels found on speedway bikes. The flywheel weight is what allows a Speedway bike to broadside better than anything else, lose the flywheels and you lose the real essence of speedway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 2 hours ago, iainb said: Do "junior" Speedway bikes (non 500cc) run on methanol also? We ran our 125cc speedway bike on methanol as do some other in the youth class at the moment 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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