Newcastle Diamonds 2021

[ruffdiamond]

45 minutes ago, Trackerman48 said:

Also since the sad passing of dave tattum Newcastle would need a second promoter to work alongside Rob. If he did stay on and that will not be easy.  

 

22 minutes ago, Justgotmecpc said:

Yeah that's very true

Maybe just someone to help with the heavy lifting. Am sure Rob has to put a lot if time into both or other businesses. Maybe some help with other stuff could work, allowing him to free up some time. Can't be easy juggling 2 things at the same time and, gadgy's can't do multi-tasking. 

A suppose in times like this, every stone needs to be turned over?

[Piotr Pyszny]

19 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Gary I know you are passionate about your team however it is difficult just to pluck a figure out of the air but I will give it a go to try and get peoples minds focused at what you will be looking at to run a successful venture for the first season.

If you read the BSPL rule book start up costs of £30k for your bond with the BSPL and £15k against your rider asset's will need placing with the BSPL; now if you don't screw up this is returnable and just sits with the BSPL for however long you want to run until the next person comes along and takes over those costs. You have the good will of the current promotion so buying what few assets he has (very few) riders; the tractors; water bowser; grading tools; sound system; amplifiers; starting gate fencing and air fence; so lets say for arguments sake £25k for those; then you have your annual seasonal fees to the BSPL that have to be paid for licences; insurance; management and administration costs and other essential items (which again you may get back at the end of the season from the shared events however that's not guaranteed) and you have your start up costs at the start of the season to get the track ready set up the team and you need funds in the bank to run your first couple of meetings and especially if you start with a few away meeting as these will need to be paid for before you generate any cash through the turnstiles and at a conservative estimate you need about another £40k in the bank to cover these costs So as a start up and as a very rough guestimate  you will need around £110;000 to set the thing up and running.

Then the next thing is addressing the crowd numbers and what type of team you can procure that will give you a chance of being competitive and this has two main factors crowd numbers to rider costs and a hard core of 350 dedicated home fans only gives you £7k at 20 quid a head for rough figures and to put a meeting on at Brough costs around £2500  leaving you £4.5k for points money so over 2 meetings that's a rough average of 45 quid a point and when you see the rising star riders on 40 quid a point guarantees it means really that the rest of the team need to be around the 45 to 50 quid a point mark and that is really stretching it as top riders are looking for 65 to 95 quid a point at this level which will mean if you over extend this budget you will need to find the short fall from somewhere which could be as much as 4k over the two meetings that you need to find which is either 200 on the gate or other revenue streams to cover an average team cost on say an average of 80 quid a point across the full team...

ARC may be open to offering a two year lease if whoever comes in can show a sustainable business plan and meets all their rules on how they want their facility used and to run the following year my estimate would be another 50k to run that second season (as all bods would be in place)… Now this is where the fun starts as it would give you 2 year to get the next stage sorted which would be to get into your own venue (note I have not said stadium) and again there needs to be some hard talking on this one but my angle would be "lets stop blowing our collective brains out trying to make a profitable business out of this club; many have tried over the years and it is just not achievable so thinking outside the box (hopefully) lets look at running a not for profit organisation that will potentially open up funding streams not normally available to normal businesses" here are a couple of links for light reading which will give an idea...

What we need to know about CIC and CIO organisations...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_interest_company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charitable_incorporated_organisation

Now I do not want to build up any false hope here its only an idea and it may not even be allowed but to my mind it needs explored further and the funding will need to be in place to run for a couple of seasons until we get to a position where we can jump ship to a new venue but it will be a very long hard slog and potentially a very expensive one. 

Unless there is an entrepreneur out there who likes a gamble and a risk; because if we could get 3/4ers or even 2/3rds of the crowd who came to last nights wake against Birmingham then "jobs a good un" as the saying goes and the thing is viable for someone to have a go at for sure and I was very surprised at the turn out figure last night  of 1232 and many thanks to everyone who turned out (blew my guess of 750 to 850 right out of the water)

I am off on a break now for the next 5 days and wont have a signal (or a very limited one that's for sure) to answer all those who pull my figures apart however they are only educated guesstimates for a rough guide to give people an idea of how big the task is...

By the way I am just the facilitator and the ideas man... I'm too fat and too old for a job... Honest...

Regards
John

With the attendances you quote, I don’t see how speedway at Newcastle’s level can be viable or sustainable as a professional sport.

What other professional sport is played out to such a small audience?

[cityrebel]

9 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

With the attendances you quote, I don’t see how speedway at Newcastle’s level can be viable or sustainable as a professional sport.

What other professional sport is played out to such a small audience?

Speedway in this country lives far beyond its means. On Friday i attended a non league football match in the Essex senior league that pulled in more than 350.

[Fromafar]

9 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

Could he be persuaded tho?

Doubt it,but if supporters come up with a decent sum of Money up front,you never know.Personally think he will be glad to get out of the sport it’s just not worth the hassle nowadays.IMO.

[Piotr Pyszny]

27 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Speedway in this country lives far beyond its means. On Friday i attended a non league football match in the Essex senior league that pulled in more than 350.

Exactly. If Newcastle's crowds have dropped as low as 350, closure is inevitable.

In the North East, there are football clubs in the semi-pro Northern League attracting bigger audiences!

Edited September 21, 2021 by Piotr Pyszny

[Gaz]

22 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

Exactly. If Newcastle's crowds have dropped as low as 350, closure is inevitable.

In the North East, there are football clubs in the semi-pro Northern League attracting bigger audiences!

The average attendance has probably been about 500 over the course of the season and on speedway terms Granty has actually made profit.

I think with a main promoter / co promoter with fans contributing also we can keep Newcastle Speedway alive and continuing for years hopefully at a new track in the future. 

[SSL84]

1 minute ago, Gaz said:

The average attendance has probably been about 500 over the course of the season and on speedway terms Granty has actually made profit.

I think with a main promoter / co promoter with fans contributing also we can keep Newcastle Speedway alive and continuing for years hopefully at a new track in the future. 

Think you're way wrong FACTS are Rob as lost money not made money as you say over the season 

[Gordon Pairman]

Can someone explain why there is an urgent need, or is it just a desire, to move away from the current stadium?

A figure of £150k for a very basis new track has been quoted but, if that sort of money could be found, would it not be better spent promoting and supporting the sport at its existing venue?

[cityrebel]

21 minutes ago, Gordon Pairman said:

Can someone explain why there is an urgent need, or is it just a desire, to move away from the current stadium?

A figure of £150k for a very basis new track has been quoted but, if that sort of money could be found, would it not be better spent promoting and supporting the sport at its existing venue?

Isn't Brough Park earmarked for housing?

[ruffdiamond]

27 minutes ago, Gordon Pairman said:

Can someone explain why there is an urgent need, or is it just a desire, to move away from the current stadium?

A figure of £150k for a very basis new track has been quoted but, if that sort of money could be found, would it not be better spent promoting and supporting the sport at its existing venue?

A think with limited availability, access to track and hoops to jump through, a new venue might get rid of those issues. A new venue could include other enterprises and not just speedway. Quad bikes, BMX, market stalls etc.

[scampispeedway]

I watched Look North last night and Geoff Brown started the sports parts of the programme around 6.50pm with the possible ending of 90 years of

Speedway before mentioning the other sports, it showed a lot that went on after the meeting and Rob Grant explained how he has lost a lot of money

through out the season.

I'm pretty certain that the ground where Brough Park is situated must only be used for sport as it has covenant stating this fact but this could be over

turned if the Greyhound owners ever pulled out.

Edited September 21, 2021 by scampispeedway
missing word near start of post

[Parsy29]

56 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

A think with limited availability, access to track and hoops to jump through, a new venue might get rid of those issues. A new venue could include other enterprises and not just speedway. Quad bikes, BMX, market stalls etc.

Major hurdle that all the previous ventures have faced in the last 10 years around the country is the noise sadly. Our wonderful sport that we love the smell and sound from is no longer 2021 compliant with the amount of new housing estates being built on every bit of land possible. With every new estate on the outskirts means none to very little chance of getting Speedway within 10 miles of them. 

This is where electric could well spell the future of our sport. Yes I know we love the noise but apart from Speedway fans ive not heard one person who loves to sit in their garden on a Friday or Sunday night listening to the soothing tones of the local Speedway.

[ruffdiamond]

29 minutes ago, Parsy29 said:

Major hurdle that all the previous ventures have faced in the last 10 years around the country is the noise sadly. Our wonderful sport that we love the smell and sound from is no longer 2021 compliant with the amount of new housing estates being built on every bit of land possible. With every new estate on the outskirts means none to very little chance of getting Speedway within 10 miles of them. 

This is where electric could well spell the future of our sport. Yes I know we love the noise but apart from Speedway fans ive not heard one person who loves to sit in their garden on a Friday or Sunday night listening to the soothing tones of the local Speedway.

Aye, a get what you say, but was thinking that the Seaton Burn site is just about directly under the flight path for the airport, so its noisy anyway, plus the A1 and A19 noise?

Surely it's not time to get the white flag oot yet. 

[Diamonds85]

4 hours ago, Justgotmecpc said:

Wages for volunteering duties ?? It was done out of love for the club  & would gladly do it again if we do come to the tapes in 2022 

I am aware that a lot of you guys volunteered your duties, which is amazing... But I also assume that some in other roles were paid? I can't say for sure as I am not really involved in any background type stuff...

[Diamonds85]

4 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

 

Maybe just someone to help with the heavy lifting. Am sure Rob has to put a lot if time into both or other businesses. Maybe some help with other stuff could work, allowing him to free up some time. Can't be easy juggling 2 things at the same time and, gadgy's can't do multi-tasking. 

A suppose in times like this, every stone needs to be turned over?

Main thing we need is someone with spare time who can run and manage the club, with the odd bit of financial backing from a successful business such as Rob's (Wouldn't have to be anywhere near what he put in this year) and from the fans too, things should be set

3 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

With the attendances you quote, I don’t see how speedway at Newcastle’s level can be viable or sustainable as a professional sport.

What other professional sport is played out to such a small audience?

I believe the low attendance levels this season have been down to a multitude of things... Covid, poor team, a few jumped ship to Redcar because they weren't a fan of how Rob was running things... However I think with the correct advertising and if the Diamonds could come back stronger, with a more attractive lineup, the 500-600 fans of old could be easily brought back + others?

2 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Doubt it,but if supporters come up with a decent sum of Money up front,you never know.Personally think he will be glad to get out of the sport it’s just not worth the hassle nowadays.IMO.

I think you're right unfortunately  So we may need to find another figurehead...

2 hours ago, Gaz said:

The average attendance has probably been about 500 over the course of the season and on speedway terms Granty has actually made profit.

I think with a main promoter / co promoter with fans contributing also we can keep Newcastle Speedway alive and continuing for years hopefully at a new track in the future. 

I believe that Rob has made a profit within the speedway, but that has involved investing heavily from his other businesses, which have mad significant losses, so overall, it's been a loss But if us fans can chip in and support a new leader, AND we can get the numbers back of old, then it could well be viable?

2 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said:

Can someone explain why there is an urgent need, or is it just a desire, to move away from the current stadium?

A figure of £150k for a very basis new track has been quoted but, if that sort of money could be found, would it not be better spent promoting and supporting the sport at its existing venue?

If we had a new stadium that was owned b the speedway we could lease it out for all sorts of activities... Amateur meetings, practice junior days etc, just like Scunthorpe do, I would suggest that is how they make the majority of their income? I don't remember the exact details, but it's approximately £500-£650 (someone will be able to quote the exact figure I'm sure) a day to hire the track at Scunthorpe... And it's hired out by AMSA and Wayne Carter and sometimes independent people on a more than weekly basis... That's HUGE, obviously it would take years and years to get that up and running though... Oh and also, no stadium rent to pay

1 hour ago, scampispeedway said:

I watched Look North last night and Geoff Brown started the sports parts of the programme around 6.50pm with the possible ending of 90 years of

Speedway before mentioning the other sports, it showed a lot that went on after the meeting and Rob Grant explained how he has lost a lot of money

through out the season.

I'm pretty certain that the ground where Brough Park is situated must only be used for sport as it has covenant stating this fact but this could be over

turned if the Greyhound owners ever pulled out.

Nice to get a mention... Just hope Mr rich man is sat at home now rubbing his hands together...

[Parsy29]

30 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Aye, a get what you say, but was thinking that the Seaton Burn site is just about directly under the flight path for the airport, so its noisy anyway, plus the A1 and A19 noise?

Surely it's not time to get the white flag oot yet. 

100% and I really hope and pray that a rescue package can be found and a solution to the current problems 

[Gordon Pairman]

2 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

A think with limited availability, access to track and hoops to jump through, a new venue might get rid of those issues. A new venue could include other enterprises and not just speedway. Quad bikes, BMX, market stalls etc.

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like, although unlikely to recover its set up  costs, speedway at Newcastle could be viable on a day to day basis, especially at NDL level. 
For information, I had some serious and lengthy discussions about a supporters’ run operation at Glasgow some years ago, but concluded that, although the initial enthusiasm would set it all up, long term, that wouldn’t continue so it wasn’t viable. The only supporter assistance model that seems to work is the one run at Edinburgh, where the supporters have been willing to help the club for many decades now. 

[TheScotsman]

If c£110,000 is required to run 2021 at Brough even without a superstar team, and it's thought this might be a stretch too far, how are you then going to raise c£150,000 for a bit of dirt somewhere else?

Although the diehards will watch speedway anywhere, other modern day sports followers actually want a bit more comfort. If you're going to take the new man/woman in your life out on a date, maybe to a pile of uncomfortable dirt in the middle of nowhere is not the best option? 

[Diamonds85]

The two key pieces of information we need to determine is:

• How many supporters are willing to put how much in
• If there are any companies who are willing to put into the funds to help support the club

I mean... over £10,000 was raised not that long ago by people just for the love of the club... And I know a lot of that was outside help... But if we could get 150 fans put in £10 a week, then a month that could be £6,000... Plus any larger sums that people could put in, plus any companies who are willing to sponsor us, we could be looking at that £10,000 being raised on a monthly basis, if we can keep that going... But is 150 fans unrealistic? I am not sure who or how many are keen, or can afford, to do such a thing... That's what we need to find out, so any future buyers feel confident enough...

[Diamonds85]

4 minutes ago, TheScotsman said:

If c£110,000 is required to run 2021 at Brough even without a superstar team, and it's thought this might be a stretch too far, how are you then going to raise c£150,000 for a bit of dirt somewhere else?

Although the diehards will watch speedway anywhere, other modern day sports followers actually want a bit more comfort. If you're going to take the new man/woman in your life out on a date, maybe to a pile of uncomfortable dirt in the middle of nowhere is not the best option? 

I believe that £110,000 is the figure put together for the first year, which would include the purchase of the club and all its assets and other year one set up costs... Surely that figure would be significantly lower for future seasons, even at Brough Park... Which is why I suggested that we should consider dropping down to the NL for one or two seasons until we find our feet with new owners backed by fans...