Newcastle Diamonds 2021

[soupy]

30 minutes ago, Trackerman48 said:

Hi John out of interest I wondered what the cost of set up was at redcar. That's been built up over the years, and by all means is doing well. 

Scroll back and Wee Eck has done a post ^^^^^

[StevePark]

2 hours ago, Trackerman48 said:

Hi John out of interest I wondered what the cost of set up was at redcar. That's been built up over the years, and by all means is doing well. 

 

2 hours ago, soupy said:

Scroll back and Wee Eck has done a post ^^^^^

 

22 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

The cost of getting Redcar speedway from a brownfield site to being open for racing in 2006 (in a very basic stadium) was in excess of £250,000 which equates to nearly £400,000 now. On that basis, when you add in the cost of an air fence, if the existing one can’t be used (and something that wasn’t required in 2006) you are looking at £425,000 for a basic set up. 
The other end is a purpose built stadium like Belle Vue. It cost in excess of £9m.

I’m really not sure what you’d get for £150,000, but I doubt it would be anything like the proposed Newcastle set up 

There you go.  Saves scrolling!!

Edited September 3, 2021 by StevePark

[M.D]

12 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

 I suppose there would be but these things don't happen overnight and take a awful lot of organising, drive and commitment by/from people and still require a sizable investmment from the end users. It aint easy...

Regards 

THJ

Thoughts that was proposed at one point, do you think the BSPL would entertain  a fan owned club?

[heathen52]

22 hours ago, Diamonds85 said:

One other thing I want to mention that I've noticed about other tracks is that the average age seems to be a lot older at Newcastle (and Birmingham) both tracks who seem to be struggling for crowd numbers, seems to be a lot older than some other tracks, such as Poole, Ipswich etc... Something to look at perhaps? There's an awful lot of young people seems to go to them tracks, which are the types who need to be attracted... What's so attractive about Ipswich and Poole that isn't about Newcastle?

Maybe big cities have more leisure alternatives to Speedway whereas maybe Ipswich and Poole dont have so many choices, how could a small place like Cradley Heath have so many fans back in the day or even recently ?, possibly the answer is not much else to do except local pub, Bingo back in the day now closed,  or go to Brum for the nightlife, Its also true that many couples met at the Speedway in Cradley Heath, for sure when i was a teenager it was known as being somewhere that you could meet the opposite sex, mind i couldnt manage to get my leg over a push bike these days never mind anything else .

 

Talking of brownfield sites, Wheatley Hill in County Durham has an old Greyhound Track currently doing nowt, but probably a bit to far away from Newcastle and Sunderland to be suitable.

Edited September 4, 2021 by heathen52

[arnieg]

1 hour ago, heathen52 said:

Maybe big cities have more leisure alternatives to Speedway whereas maybe Ipswich and Poole dont have so many choices, how could a small place like Cradley Heath have so many fans back in the day or even recently ?, possibly the answer is not much else to do except local pub, Bingo back in the day now closed,  or go to Brum for the nightlife, Its also true that many couples met at the Speedway in Cradley Heath, for sure when i was a teenager it was known as being somewhere that you could meet the opposite sex, mind i couldnt manage to get my leg over a push bike these days never mind anything else .

 

Talking of brownfield sites, Wheatley Hill in County Durham has an old Greyhound Track currently doing nowt, but probably a bit to far away from Newcastle and Sunderland to be suitable.

Not having a Premiership football team soaking up all the local media coverage is a big plus. It was noticeable the extent to which speedway got pushed to the sidelines in Reading when the Royals made the Premiership, and I recall similar complaints from Matt Ford when AFC Bournemouth hit the big time.

[robbieblackadder fan club]

I think you have probably hit the nail on the head there when you get 50,000 at Newcastle and 25,000 at Sunderland plus footballs not cheap either so you can only do one of them plus the local papers aren’t really that bothered about speedway any more and it only gets a mention on the news when Geoff Brown is on.

I do think a competitive team has a massive influence also a winning team will always be better supported football being the greatest indicator  ,I appreciate everything that has gone on this year and you have to cut your cloth accordingly , in my personal opinion I think the change of race time has had a massive effect especially for me as I can’t now make it and I think that will be the same for a lot of families 

[enotian]

Agree it's a football centric region even at a time when all the clubs are at best also rans and don't look like winning anything.  Other professional clubs (rugby union, basketball, cricket) do survive in the same environment. However they do have a much bigger national/international appeal than speedway and that's before all of the other none sport related leisure opportunities which are easily accessible. On a hot summers day (not that there are many) ideal for speedway there are amazing beaches just a short train journey away.

Not sure why young people in the region would know the sport exists let alone give it a go. There's a massive student population in that area of Newcastle but if it's pitched to a family audience and takes 2 hours plus for 15 mins of action I can't see how that would appeal to students. Maybe if the beer was cheap and it was next to nowt to get in.

They're more likely to attend non league football which is 7th or 8th tier stuff rather than watch the 20th best speedway team in the country.

At Newcastle it's either got to be a premium winning team product to have a chance of attracting attention and crowds (the last one 20 years ago didn't, although the football team was almost successful at that time) or be something cheap and cheerful that can operate within its means. Which isn't at a costly facility like Brough Park or with a team at current Championship level.   

[Pinny]

33 minutes ago, enotian said:

Agree it's a football centric region even at a time when all the clubs are at best also rans and don't look like winning anything.  Other professional clubs (rugby union, basketball, cricket) do survive in the same environment. However they do have a much bigger national/international appeal than speedway and that's before all of the other none sport related leisure opportunities which are easily accessible. On a hot summers day (not that there are many) ideal for speedway there are amazing beaches just a short train journey away.

Not sure why young people in the region would know the sport exists let alone give it a go. There's a massive student population in that area of Newcastle but if it's pitched to a family audience and takes 2 hours plus for 15 mins of action I can't see how that would appeal to students. Maybe if the beer was cheap and it was next to nowt to get in.

They're more likely to attend non league football which is 7th or 8th tier stuff rather than watch the 20th best speedway team in the country.

At Newcastle it's either got to be a premium winning team product to have a chance of attracting attention and crowds (the last one 20 years ago didn't, although the football team was almost successful at that time) or be something cheap and cheerful that can operate within its means. Which isn't at a costly facility like Brough Park or with a team at current Championship level.   

Im sure when visiting around 2000/2001/2002 with Newport the crowds were more than decent?

 

that would of been when Bjarne and Bjerre were there , rememeber a meeting gettint fogged off after 10(?) heats with Wato and Smart unbeaten then we got well beaten in the rematch no doubt THJ or Tsunami will have more details. The management knew with Smart and Watson out in heats 13 and 15 they had no chance. 

[StevePark]

3 hours ago, Pinny said:

Im sure when visiting around 2000/2001/2002 with Newport the crowds were more than decent?

 

that would of been when Bjarne and Bjerre were there , rememeber a meeting gettint fogged off after 10(?) heats with Wato and Smart unbeaten then we got well beaten in the rematch no doubt THJ or Tsunami will have more details. The management knew with Smart and Watson out in heats 13 and 15 they had no chance. 

May 2002, scores were level at 30-30.  I remember Andre Compton saying afterwards that he "couldn't see a thing when in front and was basically guessing where he had turn turn for the corners". It was the first abandonment by fog since the end of season four team challenge in 1975.

In the re-arranged match the Diamonds won 48-41and also won at Newport 47-43.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by StevePark

[Terrace Grumbler]

3 hours ago, Pinny said:

 

that would of been when Bjarne and Bjerre were there , rememeber a meeting gettint fogged off after 10(?) heats with Wato and Smart unbeaten then we got well beaten in the rematch no doubt THJ or Tsunami will have more details. The management knew with Smart and Watson out in heats 13 and 15 they had no chance. 

Come on Pinny man, you couldn't see the back straight.

On the subject of weather-related call offs, at around the same time we were on holiday in the old country and tipped up at Somerton Park on a sunny and hot afternoon to see (as we thought) Newport take on Berwick. In fact the match had been called off the previous day because (if I recall) the track was waterlogged but no-one had told Michal Makovsky who was sitting outside the stadium by his van. Lovely fella, he tried (but failed) to get us to transfer our allegiance to the Bandits.

Happy days...

[TotallyHonestJohn]

22 hours ago, M.D said:

Thoughts that was proposed at one point, do you think the BSPL would entertain  a fan owned club?

To be fair it doesn't matter where the money comes from you would.still only be allowed 3 promoters and one vote so what could the BSPL have to complain about... (cough cough)

Regards 

THJ 

[TotallyHonestJohn]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:12 PM, Wee Eck said:

The cost of getting Redcar speedway from a brownfield site to being open for racing in 2006 (in a very basic stadium) was in excess of £250,000 which equates to nearly £400,000 now. On that basis, when you add in the cost of an air fence, if the existing one can’t be used (and something that wasn’t required in 2006) you are looking at £425,000 for a basic set up. 
The other end is a purpose built stadium like Belle Vue. It cost in excess of £9m.

I’m really not sure what you’d get for £150,000, but I doubt it would be anything like the proposed Newcastle set up 

 

On 9/3/2021 at 6:56 PM, Trackerman48 said:

Hi John out of interest I wondered what the cost of set up was at redcar. That's been built up over the years, and by all means is doing well. 

Wee eck had covered it on the previous page Terry... 250k in 2006 but to be fair I wouldn't call Redcar a basic set up... all the utilities on the site with a large permanent stand etc...

Regards 

THJ

[Terrace Grumbler]

Gypsies Green stadium in South Shields is unused and looks almost derelict to me. It has or had a velodrome in it so might be the right size? I don't know  who owns it - the Council?

Outside Newcastle but good access through the Tunnel, and catchment area includes Wearside.

[StevePark]

23 minutes ago, Terrace Grumbler said:

Gypsies Green stadium in South Shields is unused and looks almost derelict to me. It has or had a velodrome in it so might be the right size? I don't know  who owns it - the Council?

Outside Newcastle but good access through the Tunnel, and catchment area includes Wearside.

South Tyneside Council own it.  Junior Football pitch in the middle of it now:

https://www.southtyneside.gov.uk/article/49716/Gypsies-Green-sport-pitch

[Wee Eck]

38 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

 

Wee eck had covered it on the previous page Terry... 250k in 2006 but to be fair I wouldn't call Redcar a basic set up... all the utilities on the site with a large permanent stand etc...

Regards 

THJ

There was no permanent stand at Redcar when it opened. The only solid construction was the pits area. Everything else was portakabins and a temporary stand. 
Although you might get away, temporarily, with a generator if you couldn’t afford to lay on a mains cable (though goodness knows how much that would cost to run, especially if you needed floodlights) any new track these days would need to have either water in and waste out or expensive portaloos. 
Although well intentioned - and, of course, now irrelevant - the thought that you could get anything set up for £150,000 seems unlikely. 
Anyone know how much the Duns training track cost to set up? That would be your base price before allowing for everything extra required for a professional track

[Diamonds85]

2 hours ago, Terrace Grumbler said:

Gypsies Green stadium in South Shields is unused and looks almost derelict to me. It has or had a velodrome in it so might be the right size? I don't know  who owns it - the Council?

Outside Newcastle but good access through the Tunnel, and catchment area includes Wearside.

Never heard of the place before (I'm not really that local to Newcastle area) but that site looks like a great little site, by the sea, massive car park nearby, obviously A LOT of work would need to be done to the place, pits built, track constructed properly, some kind of stands, toilets other facilities etc... But the basic layout is there, I have no idea how big the track would be as I've just seen pictures online, hard to judge the size from pictures... Wonder how much money/how likely the council are to allow a potential promoter move in and rejuvenate the stadium? Could still keep the football pitch like Berwick... Why not? Ask the question someone!!

[enotian]

2 hours ago, Diamonds85 said:

Never heard of the place before (I'm not really that local to Newcastle area) but that site looks like a great little site, by the sea, massive car park nearby, obviously A LOT of work would need to be done to the place, pits built, track constructed properly, some kind of stands, toilets other facilities etc... But the basic layout is there, I have no idea how big the track would be as I've just seen pictures online, hard to judge the size from pictures... Wonder how much money/how likely the council are to allow a potential promoter move in and rejuvenate the stadium? Could still keep the football pitch like Berwick... Why not? Ask the question someone!!

Didn't Steve Cram train there so I'm assuming it's a 400 metre track sort of size. Loads of investment in South Shields in recent years.  I've been involved in some of the grant funded stuff and about to invest another £80m. South Shields is one of the most socially deprived area's in the country so the funding opportunities are there as it's easier to prove improved economic benefit in a deprived area. i.e. will it bring jobs directly at the stadium or indirectly in shops and hotels.

The council do want to attract more visitors, they put on free events in Bents Park for example. They want it to be a proper seaside resort  Would a speedway team attract the type of numbers who'd spend enough money to improve the local economy? Enough to offset against 'noise'? And floodlights might be an issue. I can't see permission being given for 7 days a week operation so it couldn't be used for training. If I recall there are some new housing developments and some expensive housing very close by (to the West not many to the East).  It's effectively the posh end of South Shields.  It really would be a cracking day out. Amusement Park, Beach, Fish & Chips or Ocean Road curry (both if you're THJ).  Despite being almost in the sea it's quite accessibly by road (tunnel) or train or even Ferry!! Although it's a bit of a walk from the river.

The council are supportive of the Mariners progressing up the football pyramid as it will attract more visitors from outside of the region.  On that basis having a sports team in a national competition is ideal.  An authority like South Tyneside is never going to attract top level sporting events (apart from GNR which it's lost in 2020 and 2021) so having a team in a national competition would appeal, especially one which has moved from a neighbouring authority.

Grants for Sporting facilities are outside of my remit but I think they tend to be linked to community based projects and are probably therefore smaller than the cost of building a speedway track and refurbishing a stadium.  You'd need a significant local contribution regardless.

Certainly worth investigating the possibility because it could be a really good solution.  But you need to be able to demonstrate how the area would benefit economically and what it would offer the community (reducing crime, improving skills etc).  

PS it's right where the Great North Run normally ends for those not familiar with the area.

Edited September 5, 2021 by enotian

[Diamonds85]

Sounds like someone needs to be having a little whisper in Grantys ear  I dunno whether hed be interested or whether hes just totally sick now... but sounds like the south shields council would be prepared to help out a lot? Just need to basics of a speedway track built now... are there already toilets etc on the site?

Put it this way... I'm looking at a house in south shields... if the diamonds moves there, thered be no question at all I'd be moving there 

Come on Granty, this is your breakthrough!!

All of these entertainments that Rob was saying hed put in place would surely prove popular for the council?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Diamonds85

[scampispeedway]

I did some checking on the South Shields Gypsies Sports Pitch today and it has ample packing near by and is a short walk to the pitch which is in an open field so what do

you do about stopping people just watching speedway without paying.

The Pitch is 10 miles from Brough Park so this may involve driving through the Tyne Tunnel which has a toll to get to the site and if you have no car then this means getting

to a Metro station from anywhere in the Tyneside area to the South Shields Interchange and because Newcastle run on a Sunday, the only bus you can use is the E1 which

passes on the main road on its way to Sunderland and you then use the same method back to home as both run at a regular intervals that day.

Edited September 5, 2021 by scampispeedway

[TotallyHonestJohn]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:47 PM, Wee Eck said:

There was no permanent stand at Redcar when it opened. The only solid construction was the pits area. Everything else was portakabins and a temporary stand. 
Although you might get away, temporarily, with a generator if you couldn’t afford to lay on a mains cable (though goodness knows how much that would cost to run, especially if you needed floodlights) any new track these days would need to have either water in and waste out or expensive portaloos. 
Although well intentioned - and, of course, now irrelevant - the thought that you could get anything set up for £150,000 seems unlikely. 
Anyone know how much the Duns training track cost to set up? That would be your base price before allowing for everything extra required for a professional track

Honestly

Not sure what your background is but I am guessing you don't have much site experience

If a  pits area is constructed the same as Redcar it would be less than £10k in breeze block with a wriggly tin roof and for £30k Werneck Cabins could sell you a small village worth of refurbished cabins including Office; Food; Ablutions and Welfare; and a 200KVA generator to run said small village £10k for that and the red diesel to run a meeting less than 50Lts @ .50p per litre so £25:00 for the juice and who says the Hire Of Portable Mobile Toilets is expensive? you can hire them for £22 quid a week or buy your own for £375 quid. As for running in mains it depends where you are bringing it in from as we have just had a 3 phase supply connected into a shop on the West Road in Newcastle and it was £3.5k however I know of a site in Workington where they have been quoted £60k to move a supply approximately 20 metres so if its less than the cost of a generator you would do it and forget the Genny, then water and foul services can run from £1.8K to £30K depending on the length of the run and if you are on a brown field site you are standing on a massive soak-away so drainage shouldn't be a consideration. Site and track lighting could be installed for under £10k and mounted on bent scaffolding poles set in Postcrete. Everything is doable on a budget.

Duns has cost between £60 and £70k to date so as unlikely as you think £150k seems; rest assured; it could be done and how Professional do you want an oval dirt track to be as I never said it would be the next NSS it would be very basic however as stated it would be a starting point and it would be functional. Also I have no doubt like at Duns and Northside and when Derwent Park was finished off in the late 40's early 50's there would be an awful lot of support from various sources and volunteers would supplement on the less technical tasks. Plus food wagons can be towed to site and even Guinness have a chilled trailer that serves beer!!! Finally you are right it is all moot to be fair but again we are talking about putting this in somewhere near civilisation not Langton Lees, in Duns on the outskirts of nowhere (as good as that little venue is and could be another Redcar)

Where there is a will there is a way... if we had said in 1939 it was too hard and couldn't be done we would all be speaking German now!!!!

Regards
THJ