Why speedway is failing

[Falcon1983]

If you look at Road Racing such as British Superbikes, Bemsee/MRO events which feeds riders into BSB or those that just do it for the hobby, there are 1000's of riders who all have the same goal to become World Superbike or MotoGP championship, it costs an absolutely **** load of money to progress in Superbikes, even at BSB level unless you are highly sponsored where you keep a % as a wage, 95% of riders pay to ride there are very few who get paid to race, and there is no prize money as such only incentives across certain rounds to make money

In the world paddocks in the same, bring loads of cash with limited riders getting paid to race, even some factory support seats its a paid seat

As ringsitneck has just said, you need to get people at training days with ex or current riders, why not write to kids who do Moto X, Grasstrack, mini bikes, road racing etc. and say come and give it a try, its a sport where at least you get points money, bit cheaper than the journey in road racing, even if you unearth 3 or 4 new riders per year its a start then you need to build a structure that is appealing for British youngsters to take up the sport over something else like BSB

 

[waytogo28]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:53 AM, Daniel Smith said:

Speedway doesn't need to be clever, it just needs to get "The Main Event" right. Get that right, everything else will fall in to place. 

It has virtually driven me away from  In Stadium watching because the Main Event  of 15 heats is mostly very boring and there are 3 - 5 decent races with something in them of note at the most. Slower bikes are essential for closer more skilful racing ( not to be confused with riding ).

Edited July 16, 2021 by waytogo28
spelling correction

[mikebv]

11 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

If you look at Road Racing such as British Superbikes, Bemsee/MRO events which feeds riders into BSB or those that just do it for the hobby, there are 1000's of riders who all have the same goal to become World Superbike or MotoGP championship, it costs an absolutely **** load of money to progress in Superbikes, even at BSB level unless you are highly sponsored where you keep a % as a wage, 95% of riders pay to ride there are very few who get paid to race, and there is no prize money as such only incentives across certain rounds to make money

In the world paddocks in the same, bring loads of cash with limited riders getting paid to race, even some factory support seats its a paid seat

As ringsitneck has just said, you need to get people at training days with ex or current riders, why not write to kids who do Moto X, Grasstrack, mini bikes, road racing etc. and say come and give it a try, its a sport where at least you get points money, bit cheaper than the journey in road racing, even if you unearth 3 or 4 new riders per year its a start then you need to build a structure that is appealing for British youngsters to take up the sport over something else like BSB

 

I think it was the late Jon Cook who said in the SS around 10 years ago now, that they tried to attract Mx riders over..

Given certain similar traits between the two sports.

Their advertising was built around letting the Mx lads know that they could actually earn money for riding motor bikes and a figure of (I think), £4k a week was quoted as achievable.. 

Presumably riding two or three times a week.. 

This would appear a 'carrot' I would think, until how much needed to get paid out each season  reared its head...

I would suggest that if you could be competitive and have parity with all, for no more than £10k a year, the money available would be more than enough to have you trying to get involved..

When you hear that £30k (and more), is nearer the "going rate" a season, then you will always struggle to attract anyone but a kid whose parents or parent's friends/acquaintances are willing to finance the operation..

A very shallow pool to find someone from..

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by mikebv

[IainB]

2 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

Interested parties details were obtained at a major moto x show., hundreds signed up. A day was set aside , bikes and kit supplied at Scunthorpe , and all the names were contacted, less than six took up the offer.
As for “ go out of there way “ or “ take the mountain to Mohammed “, where are you going to stage a speedway demonstration but at a speedway track ?!?

Was thinking take the speedway bikes to the moto x track... so riders could have a little go on them to feel the power, acceleration etc. Didn't realise you were referring to a moto x show

[Falcon1983]

I understand from memory an Ipswich based Road Racer called Kieran Murphy I believe he raced Superstock 1000 class, he stopped road racing and had some goes on a Speedway bike but don't think he raced competitively, not sure if that was down to costs or just not picking the sport up quick enough to earn money, he would not have been super young and i guess you need riders that would pick it up straight away and be competitive to earn   and the younger ones would be more patient going through the development or national leagues

[Ray Stadia]

15 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

I understand from memory an Ipswich based Road Racer called Kieran Murphy I believe he raced Superstock 1000 class, he stopped road racing and had some goes on a Speedway bike but don't think he raced competitively, not sure if that was down to costs or just not picking the sport up quick enough to earn money, he would not have been super young and i guess you need riders that would pick it up straight away and be competitive to earn   and the younger ones would be more patient going through the development or national leagues

I think John Louis started late in speedway, after a switch from scrambles/moto X, but soon picked it up! 

[Falcon1983]

45 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

I think John Louis started late in speedway, after a switch from scrambles/moto X, but soon picked it up! 

Yeah he did, but I think if you take 100 riders from other disciplines you might get 2 or 3 who could probably go straight in at a good level the rest would probably have to go through some sort of development league 

[Deano]

Leigh Adams once said anyone can buy a cheap speedway bike and learn to slide. 

Perhaps we need to get back to that philosophy at championship level and take out all those extra expenses.

[ch958]

1 hour ago, Deano said:

Leigh Adams once said anyone can buy a cheap speedway bike and learn to slide. 

Perhaps we need to get back to that philosophy at championship level and take out all those extra expenses.

as always Dean, total common sense. Let the GP and Polish league guys spend themselves daft and we go back to basics, all 3 leagues.

[jenga]

JEEZ , its Saturday night , where have all the speedway meetings gone ? as the above poster says , lets go back to basics and more importantly , part time riders with full time supporters .

cannot see any new breed of new fans coming through to keep it going .greedy riders want 5 mins work and a bit of bike washing  and the supporters to pay for it !

[IainB]

8 hours ago, jenga said:

JEEZ , its Saturday night , where have all the speedway meetings gone ? as the above poster says , lets go back to basics and more importantly , part time riders with full time supporters .

cannot see any new breed of new fans coming through to keep it going .greedy riders want 5 mins work and a bit of bike washing  and the supporters to pay for it !

I've been banging on about this in other threads, 17th was the date for the British GP, which was cancelled back in April yet not 1 so called "promoter" in the whole country had the vision to put a meeting on, on one of the most prime dates available in the calendar... See you on the wet wind swept terraces in the last week of October though watching a final being raced on an unraceable track 

Edited July 18, 2021 by iainb

[mikebv]

The uncomfortable truth is that the sport carrying on as a team sport will never work. (In the UK)..

When, as a fan attending, you have to agree to collude with the promoters that it is a 'proper' team sport that you are watching, (when you deep down know it isn't), then the sport has a major problem..

You can never ever build up that "emotional engagement" that a fan of a team needs to keep repeating their visits, (with many of those visits taking place through blind loyalty with absolutely no sense of actual reason other than they are "your team")....

The sport has always been a bit "Mickey Mouse" with regards to the way it has been "self policed" in regards to its rules, however, in the halcyon days of the 70's "Proper Speedway Competitions", with nationally recognised sponsors, went out to millions every Saturday afternoon via one of only three channels that existed..

These didn't have any 'Mickey Mouse' rules and involved truly the very best in the world, with the bonus for the domestic sport of a young, exciting British Hero ie Peter Collins, who took on, and often beat, the best the world had to offer, and did it usually by giving them a head start which made the sport spectacular to watch..

The Britsh Leagues then fed off this coverage. You could watch PC getting interviewed at 4pm on ITV after wowing the TV audience, and then see go and him race at 7pm that night at Hyde Rd..

Unless of course he had flown to Germany to race their the next day in a long track meeting so Larry Ross guested for him, (but obviously you didnt know that till you had paid to get in)..

For me, the sport has some major decions to make..

The team aspect only exists for two reasons...

1). With promoters often being fans themselves, it provides them with a "toy" to play with and some very small recognition. As they still (misguided that they are), see "their team" as being relevant and important locally..

2) As many nights racing for the riders as possible, to provide them with the relatively (for the sports' size), a 'huge' return, which then helps them pay the 'huge' costs to compete..

In short, the world has moved on and UK Speedway hasn't, what you could get away with in the 70's you cannot today.

And what is a trillion percent clear is that the operating model and business plan used over the past couple of decades in particular, simply isn't fit for purpose and in the year off due to the pandemic both should have been radically changed..

Unfortunately, it appears, no one in the sport felt that it was needed so I presume all must think what they put out is "ok"...

That's the problem when you sit in Echo Chambers, you only hear what you already believe. 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by mikebv

[waytogo28]

49 minutes ago, mikebv said:

And what is a trillion percent clear is that the operating model and business plan used over the past couple of decades in particular, simply isn't fit for purpose and in the year off due to the pandemic both should have been radically changed..

Unfortunately, it appears, no one in the sport felt that it was needed so I presume all must think what they put out is "ok"...

That's the problem when you sit in Echo Chambers, you only hear what you already believe. 

And so it will go on until the sport is defunct in the UK because those that fought to get in charge of it ( or found it dumped in their laps ) were ill equipped and contained no visionaries whatsoever. Yes, that mantra for the last 10 - 15 years of "there's nowt wrong with it", so  - on with the show in front of less and less fans ( who the promoters can then blame in th end ).

[ch958]

"The uncomfortable truth is that the sport carrying on as a team sport will never work. (In the UK).."

 

and yet over time these are the best attended meetings, individual meetings seem to be less popular now unless they're GP related

I agree the make up of these teams is nothing short of farcical at times. I think one league with fewer riders per team may be the way for the near future.

How does it work in Denmark?

Edited July 18, 2021 by ch958

[Pieman72]

14 hours ago, jenga said:

JEEZ , its Saturday night , where have all the speedway meetings gone ? as the above poster says , lets go back to basics and more importantly , part time riders with full time supporters .

cannot see any new breed of new fans coming through to keep it going .greedy riders want 5 mins work and a bit of bike washing  and the supporters to pay for it !

Too expensive, too boring, too many costly foreign riders, too many anoraks and too many midweek meetings. Couldn't agree more. Greedy riders and promoters expecting a couple to split with £45+ on windswept Monday night.....get real.

[Skodaman]

56 minutes ago, Pieman72 said:

Too expensive, too boring, too many costly foreign riders, too many anoraks and too many midweek meetings. Couldn't agree more. Greedy riders and promoters expecting a couple to split with £45+ on windswept Monday night.....get real.

Some tracks have no choice!

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, ch958 said:

"The uncomfortable truth is that the sport carrying on as a team sport will never work. (In the UK).."

 

and yet over time these are the best attended meetings, individual meetings seem to be less popular now unless they're GP related

I agree the make up of these teams is nothing short of farcical at times. I think one league with fewer riders per team may be the way for the near future.

How does it work in Denmark?

The individual meetings invariably dont have much of a prize fund and riders race for "basic money"..

Hence so many advertised to ride pick up illnesses just before the meeting and get replaced by someone local who usually isnt up to the same level..

Even the British Final itself being ran on a Monday night doesn't generate anywhere near the crowd levels it used to at Brandon on a Sunday..

For me, five man teams and a league of 12 teams riding home and away twice is the only way to deliver the priority requirements for the sport...

ie Enough rides for riders and 'spare' riders to have as replacements without guest riders being used which will mean that so important credibility...

With team strengths being around a 'Championship', level of two heat leaders and three second strings/best reserves..

Six rides each per night, 15 heats at an average of £120 a point per rider would mean £5400 paid out per night per team for an average 45 points scored..

A decent standard to watch too with no out of their depth lads..

These lads could then race in a lower league made up of the other teams left and "B" teams from any team in the top league who wants to run one..

A league that could use seven man teams to give the riders most in need of practice to improve the opportunity to do so..

 

[Pieman72]

48 minutes ago, Skodaman said:

Some tracks have no choice!

They chose this route and it isn't working that's why they are closing, six teams in the Premiership is not viable. Spectators do not want to watch speedway midweek unless your an anorak.

[IainB]

4 hours ago, ch958 said:

and yet over time these are the best attended meetings, individual meetings seem to be less popular now unless they're GP related

 

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

The individual meetings invariably dont have much of a prize fund and riders race for "basic money"..

Even the British Final itself being ran on a Monday night doesn't generate anywhere near the crowd levels it used to at Brandon on a Sunday..

These Individual meetings are invariably run at the end of the season as a fixture filler or at the start of the season when there's a frozen drop on the end of your nose. That's why they don't pull a crowd and because of this promoters think the fans want team racing first and foremost. Back in the day the "big" individual was held during the summer, The Golden Gauntlets, Pride of the East, Star of Anglia, The 16 Lapper, Barum Trophy, Coalite Classic, MLRC, NRC, Brandonapolis and the list goes on... British Final, Commonwealth Final, Overseas Final. The fact that the British Final is not run on a Saturday night at the NSS is a complete waste of the event and a scandal. One of the best attended meetings in relatively modern times (although it was 25 years ago now!) was the Rick Miller testimonial, pulled in a massive crowd for what was, with all due respect to him and he is a Coventry legend, a (very good) 2nd string rider. But boy did he promote it!

Edited July 18, 2021 by iainb

[ch958]

you say they 'think' the fans want team racing. If individual events were well attended surely they wd run them. Personally I enjoy them but prefer team racing.

Teesside Silver Helmet was always a highlight for me.