Why speedway is failing

[mikebv]

32 minutes ago, HackneyHawk said:

I was going to vehemently disagree with your point Chunky because I so badly want Speedway to be credible, however American wrestling is massive and is not a 'real' sport!!

Lets be honest, Speedway has always had its "Mickey Mouse" rules (in the UK), however the crowds still flocked to the tracks as PC, Ivan, Ole, Bruce, Michael, Kenny etc etc etc were all there on show. 

Similar to WWE in the way that the true "Superstars" being on show gets the crowds in...

If WWE had its competitors from well down the roster, or if the roster was actually bereft of "Superstars", then the whole charade would be played out in Town Halls and Civic Centres rather than the multi million dollar stadia, packed to the rafters, that they currently play their trade in..

Hype and Marketing..

Now there's a thought...  

[mikebv]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

Aha! Perhaps he's retired... again 

3-2-1 gone....

[The Dog]

Not sure who we're on about not but I guess it was the Jack Thomas scenario where he had a few guest bookings last week but didn't ride for Birmingham on Friday. 

As Jack only has one club, yes he would have been physically tired because he's not used to riding every night but as far as I know, the reason he missed the Birmingham meeting was because he'd gained a neck injury (still suffering now) and blew an engine to bits. Jacks an honest lad and whilst admitting to be tired, it seems to have been taken out of context somewhat 

[Fromafar]

3 hours ago, The Dog said:

Not sure who we're on about not but I guess it was the Jack Thomas scenario where he had a few guest bookings last week but didn't ride for Birmingham on Friday. 

As Jack only has one club, yes he would have been physically tired because he's not used to riding every night but as far as I know, the reason he missed the Birmingham meeting was because he'd gained a neck injury (still suffering now) and blew an engine to bits. Jacks an honest lad and whilst admitting to be tired, it seems to have been taken out of context somewhat 

Perhaps if he stuck to riding for his own Club though these other incidents wouldn’t happen.It’s all about ME with riders these days.They forget who pays their wages the supporters without them he would be working for a living.( trying telling your employer your not coming in today because you have been busy all week somewhere else.

[Hawk127]

Perhaps if tracks put on meetings that included different classes of bike so that youngsters could look at coming in at an entry level of say 80cc or 125cc. Apart from those in the know many potential riders know nothing about the graduated levels which might be more affordable to start off and if the existing tracks marketed the entire range to encourage youngsters it might just be enough to trigger a younger following.

As it is most see the sport ( I use the sport word loosely) 500cc machines costing a fortune on top of everything else you need to get started which in the early stages is funded by families and relatives. Make it cheaper for youngster to try it out and go back to encouraging grass track bikes or short track bikes to participate.

Make the entertainment an event not just a meeting. A few clubs run some of the meetings with a range of classes but the majority of the main tracks/speedway promoters do themselves no favours by sticking to a boring 15 heat format with riders who dictate the track, grading etc. Why not start an event with some different classes building up to the main event making if you must, the league meeting as the final nights entertainment. And don’t mention about the weather and potential call offs if conditions change, so what, set the bikes up to race in prevailing conditions.

Speedway really needs to up its game or simply close down, the current format is old hat, slow presentation, gardening, riders that rarely go straight back to a start if the ref calls them back but instead pit gates open and both riders and mechanics who fart about which could in effect give a rider an unfair advantage. Speedway needs to change but seems incapable of helping itself.

[chunky]

1 hour ago, Hawk127 said:

Perhaps if tracks put on meetings that included different classes of bike so that youngsters could look at coming in at an entry level of say 80cc or 125cc. Apart from those in the know many potential riders know nothing about the graduated levels which might be more affordable to start off and if the existing tracks marketed the entire range to encourage youngsters it might just be enough to trigger a younger following.

Quite a few have suggested things like that, but judging by some of the comments on here, they're not interested in things like that. They want an hour's racing, and then they bugger off home...

1 hour ago, Hawk127 said:

Speedway needs to change but seems incapable of helping itself.

The same can be said about a lot of fans...

I have no problems with gardening at the gate - particularly in modern times when gating seems to be so important. However, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for riders to return to the pits every time there is a false start...

[lbw]

I wonder when a rider drops out of the top 5 to a reserve spot if their pay rate is adjusted accordingly. Especially like we have seen at Peterborough recently with Bomber & Hans going to number 7. I'm kinda thinking their pay rate stays the same and they then go on to have 7 rides scoring a bag full of points and being paid money that would be better served being kept within the club.

I would truly like riders to be paid their worth doing such a dangerous sport but sadly in British speedway it just isn't there.

Edited September 16, 2021 by PirateShip

[cowboy cookie returns?]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

Quite a few have suggested things like that, but judging by some of the comments on here, they're not interested in things like that. They want an hour's racing, and then they bugger off home..

Their the old farts who currently attend and don't want change, the very issue that will kill the sport off. The sport needs radical change to entice a new audience. Sadly the old farts who don't want change are reducing in numbers each year nature sees to that. In turn so is speedways audience.

[lbw]

7 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Their the old farts who currently attend and don't want change, the very issue that will kill the sport off. The sport needs radical change to entice a new audience. Sadly the old farts who don't want change are reducing in numbers each year nature sees to that. In turn so is speedways audience.

I wish nature would do somet about my old farts especially after having had fried onions! 

[IainB]

12 hours ago, PirateShip said:

I wonder when a rider drops out of the top 5 to a reserve spot if their pay rate is adjusted accordingly. Especially like we have seen at Peterborough recently with Bomber & Hans going to number 7. I'm kinda thinking their pay rate stays the same and they then go on to have 7 rides scoring a bag full of points and being paid money that would be better served being kept within the club.

I would truly like riders to be paid their worth doing such a dangerous sport but sadly in British speedway it just isn't there.

I doubt it... was listening to this weeks BSPL podcast and the Glasgow owner eluded to riders being paid more to ride in the PL than they do in the CL even though it's against the exact same riders

[Trees]

20 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

The thing is American wrestling isn't being marketed as a professional team sport is it.

It's being marketed as a entertainment and knows it's place. And to be fair if one of the top names is missing they don't draft in a guest or wrestler replacement.

Speedway needs to decide what it is & fast.

Either its a contrived entertainment that people don't take too serious so it reinvents itself as that.

Or it's a professional genuine team sport in which case it reinvents its self as that.

Currently it's the former pretending to be the latter.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the riders (with their lives on the line every race) see it as a serious, pro team sport!

[cowboy cookie returns?]

27 minutes ago, Trees said:

I'm pretty sure the riders (with their lives on the line every race) see it as a serious, pro team sport!

They may see it as that.... however in all honesty it's far from that.

Many on here who have questioned the operating model & the un professional manner in which the sport is run are told to ignore all that & focus on  4 blokes racing.

You yourself have stated ignore everything that goes on & watch the racing. Hardly the viewpoint some who believes it to be a professional sport would take.

 

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

16 hours ago, Hawk127 said:

Perhaps if tracks put on meetings that included different classes of bike so that youngsters could look at coming in at an entry level of say 80cc or 125cc. Apart from those in the know many potential riders know nothing about the graduated levels which might be more affordable to start off and if the existing tracks marketed the entire range to encourage youngsters it might just be enough to trigger a younger following.

Whilst agreeing that a meeting needs to be more than a 15-heat match, I think the problem with speedway compared to other sports is that it's a 'weekly' sport that doesn't always take place at weekends. To fill out the meeting in the manner above, you're going to need to rely on amateur riders - probably even relying on them to pay their own way to the tracks, and is that going to be viable all season? It might work at the Friday, Saturday and Sunday tracks, but I think it's a tougher ask for amateurs to be expected to turn out midweek on a regular basis. 

I also think competitions needs to have context - having a few scratch races is okay for an amateur meeting where only friends and family turn up, but I'm not sure will keep the interest of a paying public. 

[Humphrey Appleby]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:16 AM, mikebv said:

And personally, if they want to run the sport as a team sport, and the rider wants to ride full time, then all sponsorship should go into a pool for the club to use..

I think it fairness, even in sports that are entirely team oriented like football, players have long had individual sponsorships.  

On 9/15/2021 at 7:16 AM, mikebv said:

A recent example of a theft from a young "junior" making his way in the Speedway World highlighted just how ridiculous things have become..

According to his team manager in the SS, to buy the kit stolen from his van, from scratch, would be £20k...

A van that was ultra professionally finished on the outside with a superb action shot of the rider painted on the side...

When a "junior" feels he needs all that just to compete in a sport ran in front of several hundred people, then it truly is in trouble.. 

It's a difficult one, because if you're turning out in a rusty old white van then that doesn't look good either from a sponsorship perspective or convey a professional image of the sport. I suspect sponsors also expect to get some advertisement on the van and kit as well.

Of course you have to question whether any of this is actually benefitting the sport, but I'd not think £20k is an especially high amount when you break it down. 

[truthsayer]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:03 AM, Humphrey Appleby said:

I also think competitions needs to have context - having a few scratch races is okay for an amateur meeting where only friends and family turn up, but I'm not sure will keep the interest of a paying public. 

Amateurs are the lifeblood of all other motorsports.

They pay to race as their hobby. Their entry fees put money into the sport. It supports venues and industry suppliers.

There is none of this in speedway. Club racing, well run, can provide a fulfilling day's racing for competitors of all levels. Entry fees, not ticket sales, sustain the clubs. Young riders get an opportunity to practice and develop. Older riders get a chance of competing on their own terms. A few, very few, make it to a level where they make money, or at least break even.

If I was a youngster, I'd rather race motocross where I get more track time. All Britain's top racers in other disciplines started off in club racing, it's where talent develops.

The whole concept of developing speedway as a professional product for the fans is flawed in my opinion. Develop the product for the riders, a mass of riders. Give them a product that's appealing, that they'd rather do instead of motocross, enduro or banger racing, and let that keep the clubs and venues alive. Venues who feel that they can offer a spectator led offering are, of course, welcome to do so.

I can't see a future for speedway, but having a stable base at the bottom of the sport is critical. How can speedway attract new riders when there is essentially nowhere to practice?

BTW, speedway is not the only sport in this position. Consumers have more choice now. Going to speedway was a big night out for me in the early 80s. Now I have so many other things wanting my dollar, and they almost always win.

 

 

[Fromafar]

3 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Amateurs are the lifeblood of all other motorsports.

They pay to race as their hobby. Their entry fees put money into the sport. It supports venues and industry suppliers.

There is none of this in speedway. Club racing, well run, can provide a fulfilling day's racing for competitors of all levels. Entry fees, not ticket sales, sustain the clubs. Young riders get an opportunity to practice and develop. Older riders get a chance of competing on their own terms. A few, very few, make it to a level where they make money, or at least break even.

If I was a youngster, I'd rather race motocross where I get more track time. All Britain's top racers in other disciplines started off in club racing, it's where talent develops.

The whole concept of developing speedway as a professional product for the fans is flawed in my opinion. Develop the product for the riders, a mass of riders. Give them a product that's appealing, that they'd rather do instead of motocross, enduro or banger racing, and let that keep the clubs and venues alive. Venues who feel that they can offer a spectator led offering are, of course, welcome to do so.

I can't see a future for speedway, but having a stable base at the bottom of the sport is critical. How can speedway attract new riders when there is essentially nowhere to practice?

BTW, speedway is not the only sport in this position. Consumers have more choice now. Going to speedway was a big night out for me in the early 80s. Now I have so many other things wanting my dollar, and they almost always win.

 

 

Excellent Post.

[mikebv]

On 9/18/2021 at 6:04 PM, truthsayer said:

Amateurs are the lifeblood of all other motorsports.

They pay to race as their hobby. Their entry fees put money into the sport. It supports venues and industry suppliers.

There is none of this in speedway. Club racing, well run, can provide a fulfilling day's racing for competitors of all levels. Entry fees, not ticket sales, sustain the clubs. Young riders get an opportunity to practice and develop. Older riders get a chance of competing on their own terms. A few, very few, make it to a level where they make money, or at least break even.

If I was a youngster, I'd rather race motocross where I get more track time. All Britain's top racers in other disciplines started off in club racing, it's where talent develops.

The whole concept of developing speedway as a professional product for the fans is flawed in my opinion. Develop the product for the riders, a mass of riders. Give them a product that's appealing, that they'd rather do instead of motocross, enduro or banger racing, and let that keep the clubs and venues alive. Venues who feel that they can offer a spectator led offering are, of course, welcome to do so.

I can't see a future for speedway, but having a stable base at the bottom of the sport is critical. How can speedway attract new riders when there is essentially nowhere to practice?

BTW, speedway is not the only sport in this position. Consumers have more choice now. Going to speedway was a big night out for me in the early 80s. Now I have so many other things wanting my dollar, and they almost always win.

 

 

The whole concept is inherently flawed isn't it?

Riders are paying out huge sums of money to buy what they feel is the required kit, to either get, and hold down, a team place and earn money, or further their own ambitions on the world stage...

With the money they earn needing to be of a level to afford the kit they need, and provide them with 12 months salary for a six/seven month job...

And to earn that level of money they then ride for all and sundry on an ad hoc basis to get as much as they can..

An ad hoc basis which cripples any credibility that the sport has, and reduces it to a contrived farce...

A farce that drives people who loved watching Speedway,, (and still do), away...

And if the farce that masquerades as a 'proper sport' isn't enough to drive you away,, admission fees then reflect the cost of the salaries of the riders rather than the credibility or entertainment level on view..

With the farce being so contrived it renders all the competitions worthless, from a kudos point of view, yet costs hundreds of thousands from a salary point of view...

And all done on nights and days when the riders, rather than the customers, dictate to you when you should run..

An amazing plan...

(An amazingly unfit for purpose plan)...

Yet.....

What  a fantastic core product they have to sell.....

Edited September 20, 2021 by mikebv

[topsoil]

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

It's often said on here that speedway should try and copy darts, T20 cricket, The Hundred and create an atmosphere.

You look at these sports and the fans are creating a party atmosphere (usually alcohol induced).

You look at speedway. There's no singing, no chanting, no drums / other musical instruments, no fancy dress (unless you count a Wulfsort jacket). What happens after a race? Programmes are filled in. That looks great for TV. Then they sit back down in their deck chairs. Polish fans (what little I've seen of Polish speedway) create an atmosphere.

Just a thought.

[orion]

9 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

It's often said on here that speedway should try and copy darts, T20 cricket, The Hundred and create an atmosphere.

You look at these sports and the fans are creating a party atmosphere (usually alcohol induced).

You look at speedway. There's no singing, no chanting, no drums / other musical instruments, no fancy dress (unless you count a Wulfsort jacket). What happens after a race? Programmes are filled in. That looks great for TV. Then they sit back down in their deck chairs. Polish fans (what little I've seen of Polish speedway) create an atmosphere.

Just a thought.

Mainly because most fans are between 50 -70 ....maybe the way  forward is to charge for the  toilet ... maybe 2 pound a piss ...clubs would rake it in  .

[truthsayer]

7 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

Speedway is failing for many, many reasons.

While I agree with you on the whole, I think that the lack of riders coming through is a massive issue. 

More local riders are essential. There is a need to reduce costs. Having riders commuting from other countries (and even from one end of the country to the other) is not sustainable.

There are not enough riders in the sport. IMO, the priorities are to bring in more riders - not just elite riders but just actual riders - and to ensure that clubs have sustainable business models.

Speedway is an exciting and relatively inexpensive form of motorsport to participate in, but it is not appealing as an amateur sport.