Humphrey Appleby Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Pinny said: I find it baffling how the Birmingham and Newcastle promotions have got the begging bowls out and expect it to work. I remember the Mallett's done it at Newport and were slaughtered for it. I never agreed with it and always thought there were other ways to try and get fans through the gate. If your enterprise is already a marginal existence then an expectedly bad run of weather, England going on a good run in a major football tournament, or any number of other unexpected phenomena (e.g. COVID) will put your cashflow in jeopardy. I suppose a good businessperson should factor some of these things into their calculations, and obviously if you're able to run long enough you'd probably have a good idea of the ups-and-downs. But I doubt many going into speedway have a lot of experience with sports and/or events promotion and get caught out. It's all very well saying that clueless promoters shouldn't really get involved in the sport, but the returns are so abysmal that there's not exactly a long queue of people lining up to take over. So it may well be the case of them or no speedway at all. Of course, few if any sports are run on sensible economic lines anyway. Otherwise successful businesspeople seem to take leave of their senses when getting involved in sport, not least committing to particular costs that they have little say or control over. Begging bowls are commonplace in all sports though, it's just that it's usually done in a more disguised and classy way for the likes of football, cricket and rugby... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Looking across the leagues already this year there have been calls for higher attendances at Kings Lynn and Wolves in the Prem. At CL level Eastbourne, Kent and Leicester have made comments on crowd levels plus obviously Birmingham and Newcastle's recent pleas. Somerset has already gone, Swindon hardly sounds promising and there are plenty of question marks that could be applied to multiple clubs short term futures. The writing is on the wall and yet there are still those in charge who refuse to read it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Sotonian said: Made exiting easier for those of us who stayed on though. Made a difference with the crowd sizes back then of course. Personally I had no problem with people leaving if that was their desire? Afterall the promotion already has their money irrespective of whether they stayed on or not but personally I always stayed on after the main event and saw some cracking races involving not only the main riders but the novices as well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) Basically, if you're good enough, ride in another league and top up your money, otherwise ride here in 1 league for 1 team and work part time. Get paid what the track can afford and cap what Poole/Glasgow/whoever chuck at it to even things up. Edited August 3, 2021 by ch958 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Personally I had no problem with people leaving if that was their desire? Afterall the promotion already has their money irrespective of whether they stayed on or not but personally I always stayed on after the main event and saw some cracking races involving not only the main riders but the novices as well. Speedway though, has to be one of the few forms of entertainment where the support act takes place after the main event... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHarris Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) Just thought I'd share a few stats with you (got too much time on my hands tonight). There are 6 teams in the Premiership which means a total of 42 riders. Of those 42 riders 37 of them also race for teams in the Championship. That is 88% who will wear another race jacket for another team depending on what night of the week it it. So that is only 5 riders who are exclusive to the highest tier of racing in the UK and one of those is Josh Bates Can someone remind me again what is the point of the Premiership??? Edited August 3, 2021 by JamesHarris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, JamesHarris said: Just thought I'd share a few stats with you (got too much time on my hands tonight). There are 6 teams in the Premiership which means a total of 42 riders. Of those 42 riders 37 of them also race for teams in the Championship. That is 88% who will wear another race jacket for another team depending on what night of the week it it. Can someone remind me again what is the point of the Premiership??? I'd raise that and ask... What is the point of either of the top two leagues....? Both equally undermine each other.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 10 hours ago, Pinny said: I find it baffling how the Birmingham and Newcastle promotions have got the begging bowls out and expect it to work. I remember the Mallett's done it at Newport and were slaughtered for it. I never agreed with it and always thought there were other ways to try and get fans through the gate. I read somewhere that Newcastle raised 10000 quid which kept them afloat for a couple of meetings. Surely the promotion there would of known the costs involved before committing to the venture? In a time where the whole world has been rocked financially, demanding fans turn up and threatening with closure if not is appalling. Especially with the prices still the same. astonishing isn't it. imagine Coca-Cola sales plummenting and their Marketing Director suggesting they solve the problem with a new advertising campaign. the slogan "Coca-Cola if you stop drinking it we'll stop making it!" Genius. Been happening at Newcastle for decades now. As much as it's a shame speedway just isn't sustainable in Newcastle. Brough Park is an expensive millstone which is too costly to allow the club to operate at a lower level and lower crowds and, lets face it, doesn't produce a great deal of exciting racing in the modern era. Speedway in this country reminds me of loads of those TV shows that viewers lost interest in after season three but are still churned out year after year until inevitably someone realises that nobody is watching anymore. The trouble is that those making the show are having a great time making it. They just never realise that watching it is nowhere near as entertaining as making it. I think it's called lack of self awareness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said: Speedway though, has to be one of the few forms of entertainment where the support act takes place after the main event... ...evidently you never witnessed the Eastbourne tearaways take part in second halves at Cowley with Barney Kennett thrown in for good measure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, OGT said: A lot of the ideas being suggested on here are really akin to re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. For speedway to continue/survive on any level, it has to attract new fans, young fans at that. I honestly cannot see how this can be achieved in this country. Old duffers like me waffling on that football/cricket/rugby, bike racing etc is crap and speedway is the greatest sport on earth really need to emigrate to Poland for this opinion to be anywhere near correct. I honestly hope that by some miracle a master plan can be evolved for speedway to rebuild and bounce back better, but without youngsters coming through the turnstiles, it ain't gonna happen. Oh it is albeit very slowly. Have you ever been to a grasstrack? 45+ heats of adrenaline filled racing of every combination you can think of the top it all with 1000cc Sidecars what's not to like. Transfer that onto the shale and you've got a successful operation. Some of the Speedway fans are dire and would accept anything that went round in circles especially a Yank and not a care about the machines engine or funding. Edited August 3, 2021 by Pieman72 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear_Bottom Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 10 hours ago, enotian said: astonishing isn't it. imagine Coca-Cola sales plummenting and their Marketing Director suggesting they solve the problem with a new advertising campaign. the slogan "Coca-Cola if you stop drinking it we'll stop making it!" Genius. Been happening at Newcastle for decades now. As much as it's a shame speedway just isn't sustainable in Newcastle. Brough Park is an expensive millstone which is too costly to allow the club to operate at a lower level and lower crowds and, lets face it, doesn't produce a great deal of exciting racing in the modern era. Speedway in this country reminds me of loads of those TV shows that viewers lost interest in after season three but are still churned out year after year until inevitably someone realises that nobody is watching anymore. The trouble is that those making the show are having a great time making it. They just never realise that watching it is nowhere near as entertaining as making it. I think it's called lack of self awareness. Listen to the fans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bear_Bottom said: Listen to the fans 1991 it may be but several times before, and since, it has needed restructuring... I've said before, domestic UK Speedway massively lived off the back of a world beating set of English riders who were beamed into millions of homes on Saturday afternoons celebrating victory after victory.. Then circa mid 80's, English Speedway had lost PC, Michael Lee and Kenny Carter within just a few years. Names who were recognised nationally as elite successful sportsmen and not just known within the Speedway following fraternity.. Instead ITV started to show each week American and Danish riders celebrating on the top step of the podiums, and as this went on regularly for several years, 'floating fans' in particular started to lose interest, but more importantly, so did the TV and Newspapers. This lack of success was then accelerated by UK clubs who, seeing the US and Danes dominate, decided to instead of developing UK riders, started signing up anyone and everyone from the US and Denmark and then slowly from anywhere at all around the globe.. Bringing in literally hundreds of journeymen riders to be often replaced by hundreds of other journeymen foreign riders... Now all UK Speedway has is a Mickey Mouse operating model (that has been in various guises always there but in a modern social media age you cannot get away with), no major sponsors due to no 'proper' TV, Audio or written media coverage, and a measure of success quoted by the chairmen as being "getting all teams through the season".. It needs a root and branch review and radical overhaul as the operating model is failing abysmally and needs throwing out and a new one bringing in... But, as this 1991 document shows. That wont ever happen. Edited August 4, 2021 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 19 hours ago, mikebv said: The Speedway Star (a truly excellent publication which any sport so small is so lucky to have) seems to have had a fair few editorials and comments published around much of what we all collectively discuss on here so 'within the sport' there must be at least some tacit understanding that the operating model simply isn't fit for purpose.. Yet each AGM ends with "we have a great plan and look forward to another excellent season of speedway"... Whilst each season ends with less paying customers than the year before..... I seem to remember the Star doing a big piece on the future of Speedway a couple of seasons back when it really seemed as if the sport was at a cross roads. Didn't they do a big survey and almost the whole edition was devoted to it? And what happened? 16 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Looking across the leagues already this year there have been calls for higher attendances at Kings Lynn and Wolves in the Prem. At CL level Eastbourne, Kent and Leicester have made comments on crowd levels plus obviously Birmingham and Newcastle's recent pleas. Somerset has already gone, Swindon hardly sounds promising and there are plenty of question marks that could be applied to multiple clubs short term futures. The writing is on the wall and yet there are still those in charge who refuse to read it. This is what has happened... @Sings4Speedway has replied almost word for word exactly what I was going to reply 56 minutes ago, Bear_Bottom said: Listen to the fans Ah but where is SMI now? That proves they were wrong... is probably the BSPL thinking. Used to enjoy the SMI a better read than the Star I thought. Talking of the Star... what's happened to @PHILIPRISING is he ok? Used to be on here quite a bit but has disappeared recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, iainb said: I seem to remember the Star doing a big piece on the future of Speedway a couple of seasons back when it really seemed as if the sport was at a cross roads. Didn't they do a big survey and almost the whole edition was devoted to it? If I remember correctly they interviewed every promoter. Also I seem to recall a general air of complacency and feeling that the product was fine. Keyboard warriors and their negative views were largely condemned. Whilst there was some acceptance of problems, the general vibe was one where people needed to show more positivity and everything would be fine! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, mikebv said: Instead ITV started to show each week American and Danish riders celebrating on the top step of the podiums, and as this went on regularly for several years, 'flouting fans' in particular started to lose interest, but more importantly, so did the TV and Newspapers. For me you can corelate that also to the Simon Wigg race fixing story, coincidence? I'm not sure. Athletics has taken a similar turn with all of the questions marks surrounding the competitors and drugs. It used to be on the terrestrial TV channels most weekends back in the 80's and 90's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHarris Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Pieman72 said: Some of the Speedway fans are dire and would accept anything that went round in circles especially a Yank That made me laugh but you are spot on. There have been some very good Americans in the sport who both entertained and pulled in the crowds but there has also been some terrible ones too. The fans do tend to get excited when they are promised the next Greg Hancock who then turns out to be the next Brian Yarrow. Promoters are just as guilty on this matter too. Until Covid restrictions put an end it nearly every promoter would go weak at the knees for any rider with an Aussie accent. They all believed they were signing the next Darcy Ward all too often based on a good word in the ear from the riders UK based mates. Edited August 4, 2021 by JamesHarris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, JamesHarris said: Until Covid restrictions put an end it nearly every promoter would go weak at the knees for any rider with an Aussie accent. They all believed they were signing the next Darcy Ward all too often based on a good word in the ear from the riders UK based mates. Leicester have just signed the next Darcy Ward in Zaine Kennedy... so far the jury is very much out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 13 hours ago, Pieman72 said: Oh it is albeit very slowly. Have you ever been to a grasstrack? 45+ heats of adrenaline filled racing of every combination you can think of the top it all with 1000cc Sidecars what's not to like. Transfer that onto the shale and you've got a successful operation. Some of the Speedway fans are dire and would accept anything that went round in circles especially a Yank and not a care about the machines engine or funding. I'm not sure that the Grasstrack model is the way to go for Speedway. Some club meetings don't get much of a crowd, mainly friends and family. This year is a bit different, because of the lack of meetings here and abroad those meetings that are running are getting good class entries and healthy crowds. Usually only the meetings with 500 solos and 1000 RH sidecars such as the Masters and a few big open meetings get big crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 Good point. I'm not suggesting Grasstrack type racing on shale replacing speedway more like complementing. Grasstrack supporters are a more diverse bunch drawing from motor sports in general. Unfortunately Speedway supporters have become quite unique and prepared to watch rather boring events at a premium admission price watching the latest bunch foreign superstars. Realistically with more tracks closing and just 6 teams in the Premier League it's unlikely to survive in it's current form. Excellent point about the 1000cc Sidecars but no track is large enough to provide full on racing. There are loads of riders with equipment suitable for the Grass but nowhere to ride transferring to shale is an ideal opportunity to race. This is a conversation I never thought I'd have back in 2016 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear_Bottom Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 5 hours ago, mikebv said: 1991 it may be but several times before, and since, it has needed restructuring... Hard times in '53 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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