Why speedway is failing

[IainB]

6 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

I've seen mentions of 20-30 heats too, why?? 15 heats are pretty boring now so why make people hang around for an extra hour of more boring racing?? 

Speedway is a very very simple sport. It just needs to stop all the modern day faffing about, delays between heats, fixed 2mins like GP's etc. There needs to be a hige crackdown on track standards, these bikes don't like grippy tracks. Make them all slick. 

1hr 30mins per meeting as standard, from parade to parade. 

I only say 30 heats because if you do away with all the faffing about you're still only left with 15 minutes of action, you have to give the punter some sort of feeling of value for money, it could all be over in 30-45 mins with no faff and people maybe leave feeling short changed.

I think 15 heats are pretty boring because they are spread out sometimes over 2 and a half hours, there's still quite a lot to admire even in a poor race. The interminable delays often mean a meeting has no flow or momentum and the atmosphere can go flat very easily.

One of the many down turns in Speedway was the loss of the old 2nd half. I can only speak on what initially got me interested in Speedway and it was the noise I could hear from about a mile away, I badgered my dad to take me along to see what the noise was and in those days at Leicester it was free admission to the 2nd halve, we went to a number of those together, then started paying to watch the main match. The 2nd half also allowed promotions to get local companies involved with sponsored rider of the night trophies and a sprinkling of "junior" races to help bring on future talent. All in all there were around 20 races in the evening. It all stopped, if memory serves, because the riders got greedy and wanted extra appearance money for the 2nd half events, what a very short sighted view and we're now reaping what they sowed.

It's obviously going to take a hell of a lot more than that but that's a start to get new people coming along again.

 

[Guest compost]

I think that Speedway is failing because the core product is flawed when looked at in a modern light.

Most of us appear to agree that the sport has many fundamental flaws - clubs not owning stadiums and those stadiums belonging (with possibly the odd exception) in the 60's & 70's, too expensive, poor value for money, an ageing supporter base, 'teams' of guests and no consistency, a governing  body that seemingly doesn't have a clue on how to govern, be fair and not look beyond its own self interest, and so on (the list of complaints/issues is indeed long).

Many say that the 'core product' of 4 riders doing 4 laps on machines with no brakes is okay, it's everything else that's at fault.

But is it ?

As far as I can recall there have been many ideas tried and none have changed the seeming downward spiral the sport finds itself in.

Maybe it's time to be radical.  Maybe scrap Speedway as it currently is (cue howls of outrage from the vested interest) and invent 'new-Speedway'. Go electric (still with no brakes as that is one of the few good selling points), race clockwise and do 2 laps with 30 heats, add your own outlandish comments and ideas but do something outside the box. How about have a governing body that actually cares about the sport enough to save venues and clubs !!?   I'm not saying what to do, just do something outside the box.

Because if something isn't done, and soon, then the sport will end up with a couple of venues holding half a dozen individual meetings a year and that's all.

And thanks for the memories, quite a bit of it was good while it lasted.

[Deano]

My kids are just not interested. I always ask if they want to go when I go, but all I get is "who wants to stand up all night watching that". The things that gripped me, the smell, the excitement, just doesn't appeal anymore to kids.

[IainB]

1 hour ago, Deano said:

My kids are just not interested. I always ask if they want to go when I go, but all I get is "who wants to stand up all night watching that". The things that gripped me, the smell, the excitement, just doesn't appeal anymore to kids.

When did you start attending?

[SteveLyric2]

It would be interesting to get a senior rider's perspective on Paul Bowen's 'chart of failure' and maybe also a promoter's view as there are some that frequent this forum.

[Deano]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

When did you start attending?

I think it was about 75 or 76 I would have been 4 or 5 years old. Horns , rattles the announcer/presentation pulled me in.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Deano

[IainB]

25 minutes ago, Deano said:

I think it was about 75 or 76 I would have been 4 or 5 years old. Horns , rattles the announcer/presentation pulled me in.

About the same time as me then, it sounds like the overall atmosphere attracted you, there used to be big crowds in those days though. Tough to generate an atmosphere with no fans and long gaps between races. 

[Deano]

Yes no atmosphere these days. Also I can say a 5-1 in speedway doesn’t generate half the energy levels in me that a try gives me in rugby.

some serious marketing is needed on what grabs the under 16 and the 16-30 attention and holds them. What speedway does now isn’t working.

[ch958]

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

[Mr. Clemens]

 

 

Speedway is in decline because most of the people in the country don't want to go to watch it.

 

 

 

 

[spiegal]

1 hour ago, Mr. Clemens said:

 

 

Speedway is in decline because most of the people in the country don't want to go to watch it.

 

 

 

 

Added to that it simply isn't entertaining and not good value for money...In USA you get over 30 races..loads different ages..bikes..a great nights value and only $15..just over £10...the answer is reasonably sensible..but needs courage and intelligence

[Ringitsneck]

8 hours ago, ch958 said:

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

What do think is piled in the corner at the back of Redcars pits ? It’s shale, red shale !

Oil isn’t allowed for environmental reasons wether we like it or not.

As for recruitment drive, been tried from moto X , hundreds signed up, only a few turned up for the free trial , it was so poor the scheme was abandoned.

As for Grasstrack, that is also virtually a dead sport compared to the 70’ 80’s. You’ll be lucky to see six meetings staged in the north these days and 70% of the entries are Moto x bikes .

But I do agree about slowing the bikes down.

[Fortythirtyeight]

8 hours ago, ch958 said:

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

Redcar do use red shale, purchased at great expense from a Scottish quarry , and the binding agent is clay as oil being dropped on the track was barred years ago.

A rider is never going to say no to something that may make him faster than an opponent.

As for recruitment drive, it has been tried and it failed miserably before it even got started.

[old bob at herne bay]

Very interesting presentation by Paul. Agree that UK speedway has created its own problems with doubling down ......... star riders in the PL now ride in the CL as well.

Don't have any answers as the riders concerned would all probably retire if they couldnt race in both leagues, or demand more money to ride exclusively only in the PL.    

The NDL has deliberately been dumbed down by the NDL promoters and that has widened the gulf in ability between the skill level of NDL and CL which is more of a STEP than a smooth progression , with no NDL riders of a standard to score a point in the CL and thus creating a shortage of riders. 

 

[mikebv]

9 hours ago, ch958 said:

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

Your comment re how far out riders slide is spot on...

Watch the old racing on YouTube from the 70's and most riders slid the bikes well into the turn...

Meaning they often entered the turn almost straight legged before hooking the back end round midway through the turn..

Which meant room to pass the rider existed for the one behind going into the turn faster...

Now with riders virtually sideways well before the turns the track space to pass must be very narrow indeed at most circuits given the lack of width of the straights and bends...

[stevehone]

14 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

this is all purely for a grand prix style British championship 

first problem, they would need to be on a saturday

[IainB]

11 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

As for recruitment drive, been tried from moto X , hundreds signed up, only a few turned up for the free trial , it was so poor the scheme was abandoned.

Were bikes taken along for moto x riders to have a go on? Or were they expected to go out of their way to a track? "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain,"

10 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

and the binding agent is clay as oil being dropped on the track was barred years ago.

Is bio oil an option?

10 hours ago, mikebv said:

Your comment re how far out riders slide is spot on...

Watch the old racing on YouTube from the 70's and most riders slid the bikes well into the turn...

Meaning they often entered the turn almost straight legged before hooking the back end round midway through the turn..

Which meant room to pass the rider existed for the one behind going into the turn faster...

Now with riders virtually sideways well before the turns the track space to pass must be very narrow indeed at most circuits given the lack of width of the straights and bends...

Hmm... not so sure about this one. I think this isn't so much to do with the speed of the bikes but the ability of the riders. I remember watching the junior matches in the 2nd half at Cov back in the 80's and some riders were shutting off halfway down the straight, as you would expect them to as they were still learning to ride the bikes to their full potential. Then I remember watching Tony Rickardsson & Jason Crump at a GP practice session, also at Cov and was amazed at how they were actually opening the throttle and powering into the bends, these were the only 2 riders doing this and understandably were in a class of their own during that era. Look at Zmarzlik at the moment, bumping the fence and straight lining into the turns, the only rider with the ability to do the latter. So for me it's about rider ability... which, as good as the riders are in this country and as much as I admire them, we just don't have.

Having said all that... I do agree that the bikes do need slowing down and standardising in this country.

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Were bikes taken along for moto x riders to have a go on? Or were they expected to go out of their way to a track? "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain,"

Is bio oil an option?

Hmm... not so sure about this one. I think this isn't so much to do with the speed of the bikes but the ability of the riders. I remember watching the junior matches in the 2nd half at Cov back in the 80's and some riders were shutting off halfway down the straight, as you would expect them to as they were still learning to ride the bikes to their full potential. Then I remember watching Tony Rickardsson & Jason Crump at a GP practice session, also at Cov and was amazed at how they were actually opening the throttle and powering into the bends, these were the only 2 riders doing this and understandably were in a class of their own during that era. Look at Zmarzlik at the moment, bumping the fence and straight lining into the turns, the only rider with the ability to do the latter. So for me it's about rider ability... which, as good as the riders are in this country and as much as I admire them, we just don't have.

Having said all that... I do agree that the bikes do need slowing down and standardising in this country.

The riding style used to be like grass track still is..

As the rider entered the bend his aim was to find grip to propel him back down the straight as fast as he could..

And with the hard compound tyres and deep tracks, if they rode them "howling into the bends sideways" like they do today, they would have been spat off when the tyre dug in..

Nowadays riders take up a fair old chunk of the entrance to the bends when side on, with the usually slick surface allowing them confidence to do so.. 

Hence the best racing is usually to be found on the wider tracks...

As you say, at the very top level the racing is still fantastic. As it always was...

Unfortunately the vast majority of races (especially over here) are competed in now by a standard below the very top level...

 

[Falcon1983]

11 hours ago, stevehone said:

first problem, they would need to be on a saturday

Then you look to see if Eurosport can work with a Saturday program where the racing is at night time 7pm - 9.30pm programme, gates can open at 5pm with all the pre-event offerings of meet the riders, merchandise stands, start line girls, simulators, tech tent to learn more about bikes, meeting ex championships, track walks or whatever it is

Next problem will be "British riders are racing in Poland" well yes you would lose Bewley from the line up but you replace him with the next available Brit, you make the series worthwhile for those british riders who don't make it or have not made it in Poland

Another problem, stadium availability, yeah with some perhaps but if worked in advance then the majority should be fine

Another problem, what happens if there is a GP on the TV?  again its about scheduling, If Eurosport would move this to a Saturday then they would want it scheduled on non GP days anyway even if it was same day for any reason big screens at venues to not miss the GP action maybe? or punters recording it and watching it at home or people watching at home will record one and watch one live etc.

[Ringitsneck]

4 hours ago, iainb said:

Were bikes taken along for moto x riders to have a go on? Or were they expected to go out of their way to a track? "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain,"

Is bio oil an option?

Hmm... not so sure about this one. I think this isn't so much to do with the speed of the bikes but the ability of the riders. I remember watching the junior matches in the 2nd half at Cov back in the 80's and some riders were shutting off halfway down the straight, as you would expect them to as they were still learning to ride the bikes to their full potential. Then I remember watching Tony Rickardsson & Jason Crump at a GP practice session, also at Cov and was amazed at how they were actually opening the throttle and powering into the bends, these were the only 2 riders doing this and understandably were in a class of their own during that era. Look at Zmarzlik at the moment, bumping the fence and straight lining into the turns, the only rider with the ability to do the latter. So for me it's about rider ability... which, as good as the riders are in this country and as much as I admire them, we just don't have.

Having said all that... I do agree that the bikes do need slowing down and standardising in this country.

Interested parties details were obtained at a major moto x show., hundreds signed up. A day was set aside , bikes and kit supplied at Scunthorpe , and all the names were contacted, less than six took up the offer.
As for “ go out of there way “ or “ take the mountain to Mohammed “, where are you going to stage a speedway demonstration but at a speedway track ?!?