Rob B Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Good video Paul Bowen has done explaining that doubling down has got out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 A good watch and correct analysis. The main mitigating factor for me, (beside the above video), is no promoting of the sport in the towns and cities where it is staged, period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 We all put it under the microscope but unfortunately speedway has gone out of fashion. In the 50's, 60's and 70's motorcycles were very popular and speedway attendances reflected this. In the golden days of the 50's most had a motorcycle but not a car. A lot of non petrol heads particularly young people haven't heard of speedway our jobs and culture don't integrate with our wonderful sport. Clearly our supporters and administrators are the wrong side of 60 but no one is to blame. We just need to be a little less anoraky and open the sport to a wider public. Mind you if your a couple speedway is a very expensive night out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 It was a good video, had to watch it all the way to see the light. Doubling either way is needed cos there are not enough riders to fill the teams. Even mid 90’s most of the riders in the leagues were foreign. More riders, less problems, not happening cos speedway is out of fashion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 No disrespect to Paul but it is stating the "bleedin' obvious"... Clear demarcation within the leagues is a natural facet of any sport.... Organically. As you grow, you improve, and as you improve you move up a level, with those above you, who no longer can compete at that level, dropping down... UK Speedway simply cannot afford such demarcation.. The top league couldn't fund teams of top level riders and the second division couldn't afford to run a team of the next level down and clearly the riders themselves couldn't fund riding in just one league.... I am sure promoters are clearly aware of the major issues they have to overcome to ever get the sport "successful" in the UK, however, let's be fair to them, and just say that it is simply beyond them given all the years of using such a ludicrous operating model and business plan.... Fair play to Paul for his views, and he clearly isn't wrong, however, if those who run the sport could run it "properly" I am sure they would.. As let's be honest, no one who wants to have a successful sport in the UK would ever actively choose to run it the way it is currently ran if they had alternative options available would they? UK Speedway is very much set up to just provide riders with as much opportunity to earn as much money as can be possible to justify their often (given the size and rewards of the sport over here), huge outlays.. That will always mean doubling up and down and guest bookings galore to ensure it is worth their while.. It is what it is, and cannot change without a huge injection of cash from major sponsors to allow riders to ride for one team, in one league etc... Major sponsors who unfortunately wouldn't go anywhere near it given the way it is ran with so little credibility and integrity as the riders ride for all and sundry on such an ad hoc basis.. A vicous circle that Speedway in the UK sadly can't ever get out of it seems... Good though that someone within the sport obviously see its inherent flaws, (I actually think most within the sport do), and is prepared to voice his opinion.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 I now take speedway with a pinch of salt. I went to my nearest track Kent last night, not caring who was riding, just hopeful of seeing a few decent races for the £20 i shelled out. My expectations for the sport are low, so I'm not usually disappointed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, secsy1 said: A good watch and correct analysis. The main mitigating factor for me, (beside the above video), is no promoting of the sport in the towns and cities where it is staged, period. At the risk of sounding like a repeating record (remember those!). You'd do well to know Speedway existed in Leicester and you'd actually have to go out of your way to find out we are the defending League and Shield holders. The "promotion" have done nothing with the titles they spend the whole year trying to secure... so what's the point in it all? 17 hours ago, Pieman72 said: Clearly our supporters and administrators are the wrong side of 60 but all of the participants are the right side of 60... I don't know why there's such a disparity between those that watch and those that compete. 16 hours ago, mikebv said: No disrespect to Paul but it is stating the "bleedin' obvious"... Clear demarcation within the leagues is a natural facet of any sport.... Organically. As you grow, you improve, and as you improve you move up a level, with those above you, who no longer can compete at that level, dropping down... UK Speedway simply cannot afford such demarcation.. The top league couldn't fund teams of top level riders and the second division couldn't afford to run a team of the next level down and clearly the riders themselves couldn't fund riding in just one league.... I am sure promoters are clearly aware of the major issues they have to overcome to ever get the sport "successful" in the UK, however, let's be fair to them, and just say that it is simply beyond them given all the years of using such a ludicrous operating model and business plan.... Fair play to Paul for his views, and he clearly isn't wrong, however, if those who run the sport could run it "properly" I am sure they would.. As let's be honest, no one who wants to have a successful sport in the UK would ever actively choose to run it the way it is currently ran if they had alternative options available would they? UK Speedway is very much set up to just provide riders with as much opportunity to earn as much money as can be possible to justify their often (given the size and rewards of the sport over here), huge outlays.. That will always mean doubling up and down and guest bookings galore to ensure it is worth their while.. It is what it is, and cannot change without a huge injection of cash from major sponsors to allow riders to ride for one team, in one league etc... Major sponsors who unfortunately wouldn't go anywhere near it given the way it is ran with so little credibility and integrity as the riders ride for all and sundry on such an ad hoc basis.. A vicous circle that Speedway in the UK sadly can't ever get out of it seems... Good though that someone within the sport obviously see its inherent flaws, (I actually think most within the sport do), and is prepared to voice his opinion.. The rest button needs pressing with Speedway in this country, the sooner we realise we are not Poland and we are not Sweden the quicker the recovery of the sport will be. The people that currently go may like to stand around on wind swept terraces for 2 and a half hours in some cases watching 15 minutes of action. People's attention span these days just isn't there. Cricket has gone T20, they're going even less now with The 100, F1 are introducing sprint races, we need a 90 minute show with 30 races on standardised machinery for starters Edited July 14, 2021 by iainb 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 I've said probably too many times now that the sport in the UK is for developing riders for Poland in the main then potentially Sweden, if you are a rider getting opportunities to ride in Polands top 2 divisions or in Sweden is a "goal" for all riders no matter what they say, its where the money is, its where progression is, so at the moment we are a training ground for many nationalities to learn their craft, improve their skillset and also go into the shop Window for Poland. However, how many make it? not many! and what happens when they do make it, most of the time British Speedway is then left behind as they can't commit to it, which is not a dig, its just what it is. So, what happens to the domestic riders who don't make it to Poland, how do they make the sport pay? which riders need to make the sport pay domestically? British Speedways main event of its own calendar should be a British Grand Prix style championship, I would call it the "British Super 12 Grand Prix Championship" why Super 12? because it will feature 12 riders across 12 rounds, two rounds per month starting April, May, June, July, August & September fitting domestic speedway into a calender that does not run before April and does not run after September. An example of the Super 12 Line Up could be Bewley, Wright, S. Worrall, R. Worrall, Cook, King, Lawson, Kerr, Nicholls, Harris, Ellis, Schlein - anyone who runs on a British Licence. Format is simple 12 heats with riders getting 4 rides (one ride from each gate) all points scored go into the overall standings table, top 4 from each round go into a "final" where there are no points added to the 12 heats scores but its called a "medal race" this gives us the overall winner of that GP round but also you have a separate medal table gold is 3pts, silver is 2pts, bronze is 1pt, the medal table is there to decide the overall winner in case of a tie, so for example if Cook and King end up after 12 rounds on 120 points each, the medal table comes into consideration to decide the overall winner, if the points are the same, its then who has most gold/silver/bronze finishes, if its identical then a race-off Add to this championship with a Under 23 Championship consisting of just 8 riders, the line up could be Bickley, Brennan, Rowe, Flint, Kemp, Palin, Jenkins, Thompson purely as an example, they do as the main series but race over 8 heats then a final. £20.00 entry for 20 heats which include the two-finals Use the Eurosport contract to have every round "LIVE" A series sponsor Riders should be able to get decent sponsorship based on the guaranteed airtime over the 12 rounds on Eurosport and if the presentation was correct they could get a lot of coverage, riders can enter under "team names" similar to say British Superbikes, so say for Danny King if he's sponsored by Tru Plant he is entered under "Tru Plant Jawa" etc. more coverage for the brand, should be used in commentary etc. This kind of Championship and the whole winner-takes-all promotion is what people need to see in British Speedway, I believe this would engage new fans better, perhaps make people want to try speedway in terms of spectating at a one-off local event but if that venue then can promote their league racing we may capture new fans, its all about data capture and using it to promote speedway to new and existing people League racing can still be a thing, I would only have two leagues which is similar to what Bowen has said above, I would revert to the old British League and National League format, I would say 10 team leagues in both, riding home & away once with a cup competition included to give more meetings, the British league is for any nationality to race, the National league are for commonwealth riders only, British League built to Championship standard now and National League being slightly stronger maybe then it is now. Would like to see the BSPL set up a subscription style streaming service, priced at £6.99 per month for a 12 month subscription so £83.88 per year, if they can get say 200 fans from the 20 clubs plus pick up 200 fans from abroad who follow certain riders that would be 4,200 subscribers with a yearly revenue of £352.296.00 As part of the subscription package you receive * 2 x British League or Cup Matches per month * 2 x National League or Cup Matches per month * 4 x Classic Speedway Meetings per month * National League Riders Championship * British League Cup Final both legs * National League Cup Final both legs * Downloadable Content including rider insights, rider interviews, behind the scenes, interviews with promotors etc. * Mini Documentary series profiling ex riders, 60 minute long programs On top of this there can be scheduled events which are then Pay Per View events * British League Riders Championship * 5 Round Commonwealth Championship series featuring riders who commit to racing in the UK potential line up Kurtz, Bewley, Wright, Worrall, Lawson, Batchelor, Ellis, Crump, Cook, King, Allen, Nicholls, Masters, Schlein, Morris, Harris. * 3 Round Inter-Continental Championship series again featuring riders who commit to the UKpotential line up Kurtz, Bewley, Crump, Cook, Jorgensen, Riss, Andersen, Batchelor, Ellis, Masters, Palm Toft, Becker, Klindt, King, Schlein, Pedersen This gives a bit of everything for everybody, National League will see the top 3 riders in current championship not doubling down into it as they will just ride British League, then the european and american riders can only race in the British League, with the National League made up of British & Commonwealth riders. National League is more semi-pro in terms of money, British League is just one professional league. The goal for any domestic rider is to make Poland and the GP series but the British Super 12 Grand Prix Series is there for those that need to make racing pay domestically who are either not ready to make the jump to Poland or those who never will - it gives riders other goals Less meetings I know league wise for foreign riders coming to the UK, I am talking about the top end ones as it will likely be 18-22 league/cup meetings however opening up other series such as the commonwealth and inter continental series, with some good prize money makes up for the short fall in league racing. Just a few thoughts really 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 I don't get the worry about having lesser riders in teams, going back when Ove Fundin turned up at Cradley was Ken Wakefield expected to beat him? For years teams carried 2/3 point riders - experienced ones too, no names that wd be disrespectful (although i have named one) but they made up the 7 and did what they could. And they didn't get lobbed out after 3 matches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 £20.00 entry for 20 heats which include the two-finals Use the Eurosport contract to have every round "LIVE" Every round live on Eurosport? That just encourages fans to stay home to watch rather than pay £20 at the gate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 hours ago, iainb said: we need a 90 minute show with 30 races on standardised machinery for starters I'd probably go back very regularly if that happens! Especially if they were on less highly powered bikes. But you would have to rename the sport then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Midland Red said: £20.00 entry for 20 heats which include the two-finals Use the Eurosport contract to have every round "LIVE" Every round live on Eurosport? That just encourages fans to stay home to watch rather than pay £20 at the gate. British Superbikes as a prime example, every championship is LIVE on Eurosport every round yet they still get huge crowds Why? Because potentially its more of a day out, its a one-off event for some that they see LIVE every year, its more of a spectacle To make Eurosport and a £20 entry work will mean having to present a program LIVE at the track that will make people want to come over watching at home on TV, most sports that are televised still generate a crowd, it would seem with league racing Speedway does not, so after all is the fan the problem for the sport? I used £20 as a ball park figure, it could be less, it could be more 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Can you really make a 20 heat meeting a day out at each track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 17 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Can you really make a 20 heat meeting a day out at each track? Include Youth Speedway? Some upright engined bikes races? Some of the 'oldies' riding round on their Rudges, Japs etc? Maybe a 'devil take the hindmost' where the last rider drops out after a mad one lap dash of racing? Two riders starting at opposite sides of the track similar to the cycling pursuit? With the "Grand Finale" at the end of four or five hours of entertainment... Get the merchandise stalls there so fans can dip in and out of the racing... Include some of the usual face painting, bouncy castles, beat the starter etc for the kids.. Maybe hook up a PlayStation too? Something for the older generation and something for the younger including teenagers.. Raffle off some 'season/however meetings left tickets' for the club at say a fiver a ticket or sell some set amount of meetings tickets in a block eg next five matches, at discount special offer rates.. And probably most important of all, get some names, emails, mobile numbers, etc etc of those in attendance to target market them post that day.. Maybe even give everyone a club car sticker or a pen as a memento for them to take away too to a) get your name on a fair few cars locally, and b) those in possession of the items will have a tangible reminder of their day which they will see often.. As they start from so a very low base marketing and promotion wise, there is really so much which could be done.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) Speedway is very expensive for what it is. £20 for 15 one-minute races is a joke. I can go to Lord's for £100 and watch play from 11am to 6pm. That's a whole day's worth of entertainment. You can also take your own food and drinks. Take it down a level and you can watch County Championship matches for £10. We need to reduce the cost of bikes and have more races. We should have 30 heats, rather than 15 at a very minimum! Edited July 14, 2021 by KeirStarmerFan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, GAH said: cricket entertaining do me a favour boring zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Now your contributions are more understandable... No class or taste Edited July 14, 2021 by dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINYS Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Would rather watch paint dry than watch cricket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Midland Red said: Can you really make a 20 heat meeting a day out at each track? You dont make it a full day, you make it worthwhile in terms of what you get for your money, so it could be that events are hosted two hours before the event starts Meet the riders, getting photo opportunities on bikes, signed photos etc. You could have a speedway workshop with an ex rider talking through what a speedway bike is, set ups, etc. Which for a new fan or a child would be quite interesting Maybe open the sport up to an onsite mobile betting company and have betting stations Meet and greet the pit girls Meet and greet legends of british speedway ex british champions Virtual reality speedway simulator Merchandise stands Speedway museum stands Probably more to add if you really think more into it For £15/20 you'll walk away thinking that was value for money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 43 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said: You dont make it a full day, you make it worthwhile in terms of what you get for your money, so it could be that events are hosted two hours before the event starts Meet the riders, getting photo opportunities on bikes, signed photos etc. You could have a speedway workshop with an ex rider talking through what a speedway bike is, set ups, etc. Which for a new fan or a child would be quite interesting Maybe open the sport up to an onsite mobile betting company and have betting stations Meet and greet the pit girls Meet and greet legends of british speedway ex british champions Virtual reality speedway simulator Merchandise stands Speedway museum stands Probably more to add if you really think more into it For £15/20 you'll walk away thinking that was value for money What the hell is this nonsense Speedway is on it's backside because people are walking away (or dead) & not being replaced. All the above are catering for those that are already at the meetings. A newbie will have zero interest in bike setup's, meeting formats, ex-rider's, merch, museum pieces etc. This comes later if you regularly keep returning. All you've done is run off stuff YOU'RE interested in & will add nothing to bring in outsider's. Apologies as I know I've been a quite rude but these ideas keep being rewashed year in year out. Not meaning to be angry at you but this isn't what's needed. I've seen mentions of 20-30 heats too, why?? 15 heats are pretty boring now so why make people hang around for an extra hour of more boring racing?? Speedway is a very very simple sport. It just needs to stop all the modern day faffing about, delays between heats, fixed 2mins like GP's etc. There needs to be a hige crackdown on track standards, these bikes don't like grippy tracks. Make them all slick. 1hr 30mins per meeting as standard, from parade to parade. It needs to be all students free. 2 meetings, mid summer, £5 adults & concessions. 200-300 free family ticket giveaways in town / city centres & / or supermarkets. Get scheme's set up with Primary / Secondary School's. Basic basic basic ideas. Speculate to accumulate. Speedway doesn't need to be clever, it just needs to get "The Main Event" right. Get that right, everything else will fall in to place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 6 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: What the hell is this nonsense Speedway is on it's backside because people are walking away (or dead) & not being replaced. All the above are catering for those that are already at the meetings. A newbie will have zero interest in bike setup's, meeting formats, ex-rider's, merch, museum pieces etc. This comes later if you regularly keep returning. All you've done is run off stuff YOU'RE interested in & will add nothing to bring in outsider's. Apologies as I know I've been a quite rude but these ideas keep being rewashed year in year out. Not meaning to be angry at you but this isn't what's needed. I've seen mentions of 20-30 heats too, why?? 15 heats are pretty boring now so why make people hang around for an extra hour of more boring racing?? Speedway is a very very simple sport. It just needs to stop all the modern day faffing about, delays between heats, fixed 2mins like GP's etc. There needs to be a hige crackdown on track standards, these bikes don't like grippy tracks. Make them all slick. 1hr 30mins per meeting as standard, from parade to parade. It needs to be all students free. 2 meetings, mid summer, £5 adults & concessions. 200-300 free family ticket giveaways in town / city centres & / or supermarkets. Get scheme's set up with Primary / Secondary School's. Basic basic basic ideas. Speculate to accumulate. Speedway doesn't need to be clever, it just needs to get "The Main Event" right. Get that right, everything else will fall in to place. I never said it was to bring in new fans, what I listed is to get current and old fans off their behinds and to attend meetings, that should be the first thing that the sport does reconnect with existing fans as they know what the sport is about, so you make the grand prix series I've mentioned already more of an experience by offering things additionally,still people have the option to turn up 15 minutes before the racing I've not mentioned anything about what I would do to attract more fans, this is all purely for a grand prix style British championship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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