Peterborough vs Sheffield - 12/07/21 - League Meeting

[Dave Jones]

24 minutes ago, iainb said:

Being co-promoter and part custodian of the Coventry name at the point the club closed you have arguably done more to ruin Speedway in this country than any other man with the exception of Mick Horton... so I'll take no lessons on how a club should be run from you. 

In case you need your memory jogging:

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/speedway/coventry-bees-speedway-team-sale-12666571?

Just search for "Watson" you actually get a couple of mentions

I was thinking something along the same lines.

Although I accept that the only name over the door of Coventry Speedway at this time was that of the infamous M Horton, Neil Watson's long association as his co promoter inevitably means he will be tarred with the same brush.

I would describe their time as Brandon as at best very poor , at worst abysmal, & if were in Neil Watson's position I would be keeping a very low profile not bulling myself up as someone of importance in British speedway

[Falcon1983]

4 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

I was thinking something along the same lines.

Although I accept that the only name over the door of Coventry Speedway at this time was that of the infamous M Horton, Neil Watson's long association as his co promoter inevitably means he will be tarred with the same brush.

I would describe their time as Brandon as at best very poor , at worst abysmal, & if were in Neil Watson's position I would be keeping a very low profile not bulling myself up as someone of importance in British speedway

What is your importance to the sport? 

[IainB]

23 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

What is your importance to the sport? 

He's probably just a paying fan... absolutely of no importance at all 

[speedwaysliders]

The trouble is and its great that Neil comes on here, but once your on that inner side of speedway ,it seems there is "i wont have a bad word to say about speedway" attitude.You just have to look at Neils posts,he wont have a negative thing to say about speedway,always defending the sport,i would love to know his honest opion at what happened to Coventry speedway,but sadly i dont think we will ever know how a well supported club ended up where it did.i trusted Sandu but looked what happened.I would love on a seperate topic to put questions to you Neil because its clear you love speedway,but i dont think i would get an honest open view of things.

[Halifaxtiger]

1 hour ago, speedwaysliders said:

The trouble is and its great that Neil comes on here, but once your on that inner side of speedway ,it seems there is "i wont have a bad word to say about speedway" attitude.You just have to look at Neils posts,he wont have a negative thing to say about speedway,always defending the sport,i would love to know his honest opion at what happened to Coventry speedway,but sadly i dont think we will ever know how a well supported club ended up where it did.i trusted Sandu but looked what happened.I would love on a seperate topic to put questions to you Neil because its clear you love speedway,but i dont think i would get an honest open view of things.

I value Neil's contributions on here - whether I agree with them or not - for the simple reason that he has been at the sharp end of speedway promotion and, for all my experience of the sport, I have not. 

There are an awful lot of people  - most of whom have never risked a single penny of their money running a speedway track - out there who think they know better and, frankly, they don't.  A rain off with riders at the track costs even an NL club at least three grand [and possibly as much as 5] so any speedway promoter that ignores weather forecasts is worse than a fool. I should say, though, that I have occasionally considered that some postponements take place a little too early for comfort. 36 hours, in my view, is excessive.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Halifaxtiger

[Halifaxtiger]

9 hours ago, iainb said:

Being co-promoter and part custodian of the Coventry name at the point the club closed you have arguably done more to ruin Speedway in this country than any other man with the exception of Mick Horton... so I'll take no lessons on how a club should be run from you. 

In case you need your memory jogging:

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/speedway/coventry-bees-speedway-team-sale-12666571?

Just search for "Watson" you actually get a couple of mentions

That's completely unfair. Coventry Speedway closed because of the landlord, not the promotion, and its entirely possible that if the landlords attitude had been different it would still be in existence today.

Indeed, in most cases those who close tracks down do so for the most legitimate of reasons - either loss - or potential loss -  of the stadium [Lakeside, Stoke, Exeter] or financial loss [Workington, Rye House, Newport].

[NeilWatson]

2 hours ago, speedwaysliders said:

The trouble is and its great that Neil comes on here, but once your on that inner side of speedway ,it seems there is "i wont have a bad word to say about speedway" attitude.You just have to look at Neils posts,he wont have a negative thing to say about speedway,always defending the sport,i would love to know his honest opion at what happened to Coventry speedway,but sadly i dont think we will ever know how a well supported club ended up where it did.i trusted Sandu but looked what happened.I would love on a seperate topic to put questions to you Neil because its clear you love speedway,but i dont think i would get an honest open view of things.

You may get that impression, but in this recent chain of posts I have been trying (with others) to explain to a fan who thinks he knows best but in fact has no idea of how and why a decision was made. I have the experience of having promoted at Peterborough on three separate occasions, I know the track and what is possible to do with it, and I have close personal knowledge of the weather conditions at the stadium over the weekend as my parents still live in my childhood home just yards from the track. Is that defending the Club, or being realistic?

Coventry closed at Brandon because the Landlord removed all the equipment and declined to allow racing to continue at the venue. It had been a stable Club under Mick’s ownership for some years before that and would I believe have carried on in that vein had the stadium been available. Stoke suffered the same fate, Long Eaton, Cradley, Boston and many more - but I don’t see the same amount of personal vilification attached to those cases. Mick tried bravely to keep the Club alive with a season at Leicester but that wasn’t a financial success and he lost everything he’d invested into Coventry speedway.

I am always honest, and happy to answer questions where I can.

[wealdstone]

I find it very sad that despite  being  given valid reasons why the meeting was called off( many from persons with local and practical experience) that because one person will not listen to explanations given that this thread has descended into personal abuse. 

[IainB]

20 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

It’s a while since I’ve read so much puerile rubbish in one post. 

 

6 hours ago, speedwaysliders said:

i dont think we will ever know how a well supported club ended up where it did.i trusted Sandu but looked what happened.I would love on a seperate topic to put questions to you Neil because its clear you love speedway,but i dont think i would get an honest open view of things.

You're right we will probably never know the ins and outs of what happened at Coventry so until we do all I can do is base my opinions on what I hear about people and I've never heard a bad word said about Sandhu from anybody that has ever worked or ridden for him... Horton on the other hand... And Watson never gets a mention, but was joint helmsmen of the club at the point of closure. The club knew they had to find a new home for 5 years, yet did nothing to secure a new venue just milking the golden t1t in the hope that Sandhu would change his mind.

5 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

There are an awful lot of people  - most of whom have never risked a single penny of their money running a speedway track - out there who think they know better and, frankly, they don't.

Just because you've put money into a club or are involved with a club certainly doesn't qualify you and perhaps if the people that risk their money every week (the paying fan) were listened to a bit more then the sport wouldn't be in the state it is... these "promoters" have overseen the ruin of the sport. I can't ever recall a meeting being called off on the basis of a weather forecast until recently it just wasn't a thing. If it now is a thing because those in charge have run the sport into the ground then that's obviously now the way of the world.

4 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

I have the experience of having promoted at Peterborough on three separate occasions, I know the track and what is possible to do with it, and I have close personal knowledge of the weather conditions at the stadium over the weekend as my parents still live in my childhood home just yards from the track. Is that defending the Club, or being realistic?

Coventry closed at Brandon because the Landlord removed all the equipment and declined to allow racing to continue at the venue. It had been a stable Club under Mick’s ownership for some years before that and would I believe have carried on in that vein had the stadium been available. Stoke suffered the same fate, Long Eaton, Cradley, Boston and many more - but I don’t see the same amount of personal vilification attached to those cases. Mick tried bravely to keep the Club alive with a season at Leicester but that wasn’t a financial success and he lost everything he’d invested into Coventry speedway.

I am always honest, and happy to answer questions where I can.

I hope you're using the word "promoted" very loosely, after your 3 terms at the club crowds are at an all time low. You know the track and what is possible to do with it, you've probably done as many laps around it as I have and you have as much knowledge of the weather around the track as Mystic Meg. It's good that you have such a high opinion of yourself. As for your words about Mick Horton... I'm reaching for the sick bucket

3 hours ago, wealdstone said:

I find it very sad that despite  being  given valid reasons why the meeting was called off( many from persons with local and practical experience) that because one person will not listen to explanations given that this thread has descended into personal abuse. 

"let him who is without sin cast the first stone", I thought I was quite reasonably asking why the match was called off so far in advance based, how long it would take the track to dry out in the summer and would it have gone ahead with a better forecast... that's all and then I got told it was "puerile rubbish", I thought Neil was better than that... obviously he's no better than the rest of us.

Edited July 14, 2021 by iainb

[wealdstone]

39 minutes ago, iainb said:

 

You're right we will probably never know the ins and outs of what happened at Coventry so until we do all I can do is base my opinions on what I hear about people and I've never hear a bad word said about Sandhu from anybody that has ever worked or ridden for him... Horton on the other hand... And Watson never gets a mention, but was joint helmsmen of the club at the point of closure. The club knew they had to find a new home for 5 years, yet did nothing to secure a new venue just milking the golden twit in the hope that Sandhu would change his mind.

Just because you've put money into a club or are involved with a club certainly doesn't qualify you and perhaps if the people that risk their money every week (the paying fan) were listened to a bit more then the sport wouldn't be in the state it is... these "promoters" have overseen the ruin of the sport. I can't ever recall a meeting being called off on the basis of a weather forecast until recently it just wasn't a thing. If it now is a thing because those in charge have run the sport into the ground then that's obviously now the way of the world.

I hope you're using the word "promoted" very loosely, after your 3 terms at the club crowds are at an all time low. You know the track and what is possible to do with it, you've probably done as many laps around it as I have and you have as much knowledge of the weather around the track as Mystic Meg. It's good that you have such a high opinion of yourself. As for your words about Mick Horton... I'm reaching for the sick bucket

"let him who is without sin cast the first stone", I thought I was quite reasonably asking why the match was called off so far in advance based, how long it would take the track to dry out in the summer and would it have gone ahead with a better forecast... that's all and then I got told it was "puerile rubbish", I thought Neil was better than that... obviously he's no better than the rest of us.

If that is the way you see it so be it. To others it seemed that despite being given reasonable explanations  you were not prepared to let he matter go .

[IainB]

4 minutes ago, wealdstone said:

despite being given reasonable explanations  you were not prepared to let he matter go .

Still nobody has told me how long it takes the track to dry in the summer and nobody has said whether the meeting would have gone ahead with a better forecast. All I got was the right decision was made... even though the forecast was wrong. Reasonable explanations lol, "my parents live near the track", I'm a promoter, I know what the track can take... don't make me laugh

[Halifaxtiger]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

 

Just because you've put money into a club or are involved with a club certainly doesn't qualify you and perhaps if the people that risk their money every week (the paying fan) were listened to a bit more then the sport wouldn't be in the state it is... these "promoters" have overseen the ruin of the sport. I can't ever recall a meeting being called off on the basis of a weather forecast until recently it just wasn't a thing. If it now is a thing because those in charge have run the sport into the ground then that's obviously now the way of the world.

 

In attending hundreds of meetings at all tracks across the country I never once considered that I was risking any money because I got to see a meeting in return for payment and despite the fact that on a lot of occasions the product barely justified the cost I continued going. The time I did take a risk was when I became a Mildenhall shareholder back in 2007 - basically, because I knew that I would probably get nothing for it other than a certificate and the knowledge that I had helped the club survive.

Based upon fans views on the pages of this forum, whether speedway would prosper taking into account those views is a moot point. Some are very reasonable and practical, some are total nonsense - ignoring weather forecasts when determining weather a meeting should go ahead or not being definitely one of the latter, meetings for as long as I remember justifiably being called off on the strength of them - but one thing is absolutely definite, and that is that I have never heard someone putting forward an idea also saying that they will put up the money to support it.  Brilliant, can't fail ideas but any gamble will be made on the basis of a promoters money, not theirs.

In your own case, then, I suggest you notify the promoter of your local track that he need not consider weather forecasts any longer because if he suffers any financial loss as a result of doing so you will meet it. 

Yeah, right 

[Falcon1983]

42 minutes ago, iainb said:

Still nobody has told me how long it takes the track to dry in the summer and nobody has said whether the meeting would have gone ahead with a better forecast. All I got was the right decision was made... even though the forecast was wrong. Reasonable explanations lol, "my parents live near the track", I'm a promoter, I know what the track can take... don't make me laugh

Phone up the club and ask if you're that desperate to know, instead of asking other people on a forum who didn't make the decision, let us know what the club says 

[IainB]

5 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

In attending hundreds of meetings at all tracks across the country I never once considered that I was risking any money because I got to see a meeting in return for payment and despite the fact that on a lot of occasions the product barely justified the cost I continued going. The time I did take a risk was when I became a Mildenhall shareholder back in 2007 - basically, because I knew that I would probably get nothing for it other than a certificate and the knowledge that I had helped the club survive.

Based upon fans views on the pages of this forum, whether speedway would prosper taking into account those views is a moot point. Some are very reasonable and practical, some are total nonsense - ignoring weather forecasts when determining weather a meeting should go ahead or not being definitely one of the latter, meetings for as long as I remember justifiably being called off on the strength of them - but one thing is absolutely definite, and that is that I have never heard someone putting forward an idea also saying that they will put up the money to support it.  Brilliant, can't fail ideas but any gamble will be made on the basis of a promoters money, not theirs.

In your own case, then, I suggest you notify the promoter of your local track that he need not consider weather forecasts any longer because if he suffers any financial loss as a result of doing so you will meet it. 

Yeah, right 

My own local track, Leicester, cancelled a match at the beginning of 2018 based on a weather forecast, the forecast was wrong, no rained appeared, consequently as a knock on effect, with other clubs no doubt doing the same kind of thing the play off finals at the end of the season were constantly being cancelled due to actual real rain with the 2nd leg of the final being run on a dismal Tuesday evening in Glasgow (is there any other kind)... that's the showpiece event in the whole season, the big crowd puller.

Take a look at this weekend, glorious weather is forecast and yet there is no meeting on anywhere in the country!

I can possibly see the logic of cancelling a meeting if a weather front is heading across the country and there is a massively high probability that rain is going to hit... but in the current spate of showers we are having it's a lottery whether you'll get rain or not, especially if you're making that decision 36 hours out.

So the fixture list goes out of the window because you may or may not get rain. Why have a fixture list at all?

If the way of things is that meetings are to be called of as a matter of course due to weather forecasts, the "sport" in this country in it's current league structure is not viable.

4 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

Phone up the club and ask if you're that desperate to know, instead of asking other people on a forum who didn't make the decision, let us know what the club says 

I'm not that desperate to know, I just asked the question and everybody piled on defending the decision to cancel based on an incorrect forecast.

[Chris116]

In my view the question that needs answering is "if the meeting had not been called off was the track in raceable condition at what would have been the start time?" 

If the answer is yes then the promotion got it wrong but if the answer is no then they were right. If the track was fit for racing at the planned start time then how much more rain could it have taken? If the answer to that is "very little" then I think the promotion were being sensible. 

Personally I think that they should have waited until 24 hours before planned start time but I am not the one with the purse strings and do not know what the early postponement saved the promotion compared to waiting until around 24 hours before the meeting. 

[NeilWatson]

14 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

In my view the question that needs answering is "if the meeting had not been called off was the track in raceable condition at what would have been the start time?" 

If the answer is yes then the promotion got it wrong but if the answer is no then they were right. If the track was fit for racing at the planned start time then how much more rain could it have taken? If the answer to that is "very little" then I think the promotion were being sensible. 

Personally I think that they should have waited until 24 hours before planned start time but I am not the one with the purse strings and do not know what the early postponement saved the promotion compared to waiting until around 24 hours before the meeting. 

The call-off was less than 24 hours before start time - mid Sunday evening

[Chris116]

9 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

The call-off was less than 24 hours before start time - mid Sunday evening

In that case the comments about it being 36 hours before have misled me. As I said 24 hours seems to be reasonable to me. 

[IainB]

36 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

In that case the comments about it being 36 hours before have misled me. As I said 24 hours seems to be reasonable to me. 

Mr Watson is correct in the fact the meeting was called off 24 hours in advance. I don't know where I came up with 36 hours from and apologise for my mistake... Still too early to call it off though imo, they should have left it until around noon on the day of the match like clubs always used to, and many still do, before fans, riders and officials start off with their journey's.

[Crump99]

4 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

Phone up the club and ask if you're that desperate to know, instead of asking other people on a forum who didn't make the decision, let us know what the club says 

Worst advice ever. Club will always say it's on. Many a time I've sat at home looking at the rain and puddles with no chance of there being a meeting but official channels still cling on until the obvious is announced.

Sorry - you probably mean in this instance and not generally.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Crump99

[stevehone]

3 minutes ago, iainb said:

Mr Watson is correct in the fact the meeting was called off 24 hours in advance. I don't know where I came up with 36 hours from and apologise for my mistake... Still too early to call it off though imo, they should have left it until around noon on the day of the match like clubs always used to, and many still do, before fans, riders and officials start off with their journey's.

call offs on the day of the meeting when it's obvious it could have been called sooner is a pain in the backside, arrangements are made, time off work etc, i'd much prefer 24 hours notice