Oxford 1964

[BL65]

43 minutes ago, norbold said:

Thanks as always for all your fantastic information on this thread, BL.

Now, talking of 1965 and West Ham....As a supporter and regular that year, I have always put West Ham's treble success down to Malcolm Simmons' transition from second string to heat leader status. I could probably work this out myself, but I wondered if you have Malcolm's League and Cup averages up to 13 August and then from 14 August onwards (that being the day of the KO Cup Quarter Final replay against Wimbledon when he suddenly came good and became a different rider).

Thanks in advance.

Malcolm's league and cup average on 13th July 1965 was 5.67; his average for the subsequent league and cup matches that season was 8.20.  An improvement in form had started in the KO Cup match against Newport on 29th June, prior to which his average was 4.70.  From the Newport meeting to the day before the Wimbledon cup match he averaged 7.76.  That also included away meetings at Wolverhampton, Newcastle and Sheffield, plus home meetings against Edinburgh, Oxford, Poole and Wimbledon, the latter in the drawn cup tie.  A lot of credit was rightly given to Simmons for the terrific team results in the latter half of the season, which led to the achievement of the treble (including the London Cup). However, at the time the introduction of Tony Clarke to the reserve slot in August was also acknowledged as being a contributary factor, with his average in league and cup being 4.35.

[norbold]

1 hour ago, BL65 said:

Malcolm's league and cup average on 13th July 1965 was 5.67; his average for the subsequent league and cup matches that season was 8.20.  An improvement in form had started in the KO Cup match against Newport on 29th June, prior to which his average was 4.70.  From the Newport meeting to the day before the Wimbledon cup match he averaged 7.76.  That also included away meetings at Wolverhampton, Newcastle and Sheffield, plus home meetings against Edinburgh, Oxford, Poole and Wimbledon, the latter in the drawn cup tie.  A lot of credit was rightly given to Simmons for the terrific team results in the latter half of the season, which led to the achievement of the treble (including the London Cup). However, at the time the introduction of Tony Clarke to the reserve slot in August was also acknowledged as being a contributary factor, with his average in league and cup being 4.35.

Thanks, BL, I knew I could rely on you. And yes, I agree about Tony Clarke as well. I think we did recognise his contribution at the time, but it always seemed that Malcolm's was the deciding factor.

However, it is interesting looking at those figures that the change wasn't quite as sudden as I maybe thought and he was working his way up to that meeting on 14th August over the previous month. Many years later I spoke to both Malcolm Simmons and Dave Lanning (West Ham's manager on 14th) about the meeting and both agreed it was Malcolm's "coming of age" moment. Malcolm told me he didn't clean his bike for weeks afterwards because it was running so perfectly that day that he didn't want to risk touching anything!

[BL65]

42 minutes ago, norbold said:

However, it is interesting looking at those figures that the change wasn't quite as sudden as I maybe thought and he was working his way up to that meeting on 14th August over the previous month. Many years later I spoke to both Malcolm Simmons and Dave Lanning (West Ham's manager on 14th) about the meeting and both agreed it was Malcolm's "coming of age" moment. Malcolm told me he didn't clean his bike for weeks afterwards because it was running so perfectly that day that he didn't want to risk touching anything!

I well remember being stunned at the time at the result of the cup replay, particularly given the circumstances, with Hunter and Harrfeldt both missing.  Although this was partly offset by Trevor Hedge being absent for Wimbledon and John Edwards ruled out injured after his first ride, the home team were still expected to win with something to spare.  Putting things into context regarding the improvement by Simmons, in his first 18 meetings he scored 8 or more (including bonus points) only 3 times.  In the next 8 meetings he achieved this 4 times (from the Newport cup match to the home cup match with Wimbledon).  From his sensational performance at Wimbledon onwards he was paid for 8 or more 11 times in 14 league and cup matches.  That really illustrates his improved contribution to the team.

[norbold]

19 minutes ago, BL65 said:

I well remember being stunned at the time at the result of the cup replay, particularly given the circumstances, with Hunter and Harrfeldt both missing.  Although this was partly offset by Trevor Hedge being absent for Wimbledon and John Edwards ruled out injured after his first ride, the home team were still expected to win with something to spare.  Putting things into context regarding the improvement by Simmons, in his first 18 meetings he scored 8 or more (including bonus points) only 3 times.  In the next 8 meetings he achieved this 4 times (from the Newport cup match to the home cup match with Wimbledon).  From his sensational performance at Wimbledon onwards he was paid for 8 or more 11 times in 14 league and cup matches.  That really illustrates his improved contribution to the team.

Yes, indeed.
I was actually at the meeting. Even though it was over 55 years ago now, I can still remember it more vividly than any other meeting I've ever been to. It was a once in a lifetime experience for a West Ham supporter! 

[BL65]

5 hours ago, norbold said:

Yes, indeed.
I was actually at the meeting. Even though it was over 55 years ago now, I can still remember it more vividly than any other meeting I've ever been to. It was a once in a lifetime experience for a West Ham supporter! 

I have a few 'memorable' experiences of West Ham from 1965 and 1966.  In 1965 I attended the league title clinching win at Cradley Heath, when the Hammers won 47-31.  This was a re-arranged fixture on 23rd October after the original meeting on 21st August was farcically changed from a league match to a challenge because the track was deemed unfit for league racing after a lot of rain during the day!  Then on 30th April 1966 I had to dash from an England v Scotland schoolboys international football match at Chesterfield, which finished at 4.45 p.m. to Dudley Wood for the 7.30 p.m. meeting which the Hammers won 44-33.  Another meeting I recall was during the period when the West Ham team was at its peak in 1965, a 52-26 defeat at Wolverhampton in a challenge match on 1st October, a meeting arranged after the teams had drawn 39-39 earlier in the season in the league.  The match was remarkable as McKinlay (5), Harrfeldt (5) and Hunter (1) were out of sorts, with Simmons topping the scorechart with 9 paid 10 from 4 rides.  To be fair, if the season had started in mid-September it is possible that Wolverhampton would have won the league title.  They had a run of league results that started with a 50-28 home win against full strength Wimbledon, a 48-30 win at Exeter after the challenge success against West Ham, followed by a 64-14 annihilation of Newport, a narrow 36-42 defeat at Swindon, then ending with a 56-21 demolition of Glasgow and a 45-33 win over Hackney, the latter two after heat leaderJim Airey had returned to Australia.  I remember those events vividly too.

[norbold]

7 hours ago, BL65 said:

I have a few 'memorable' experiences of West Ham from 1965 and 1966.  In 1965 I attended the league title clinching win at Cradley Heath, when the Hammers won 47-31. 

I went to that as well. I don't remember seeing you there!

I was at college in Norwich at the time and I hired a car and managed to persuade a few (non-speedway) friends to join me and drive across to Cradley. When we got there, we joined the West Ham supporters' section of course. After the meeting, naturally, I wanted to celebrate with my fellow supporters so I stayed with them, while my college friends, who weren't really that interested, drove back to Norwich. Fortunately, there was a spare seat on the coach going back to London, so I hopped on that. Good times!

Edited July 12, 2021 by norbold

[BL65]

52 minutes ago, norbold said:

I went to that as well. I don't remember seeing you there!

I was at college in Norwich at the time and I hired a car and managed to persuade a few (non-speedway) friends to join me and drive across to Cradley. When we got there, we joined the West Ham supporters' section of course. After the meeting, naturally, I wanted to celebrate with my fellow supporters so I stayed with them, while my college friends, who weren't really that interested, drove back to Norwich. Fortunately, there was a spare seat on the coach going back to London, so I hopped on that. Good times!

Very fortunate, it would have been a very long walk back to either Norwich or London, although hitching a lift was still common practice in those days. I was delayed leaving the stadium at Leicester on one occasion in the 1960s due to being engaged in conversation with Alf Weedon and ended up catching the last train, then missed a connection in Birmingham which meant being stuck there until 6.30 a.m.  Happy days indeed.

[BOBBATH]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:31 AM, BL65 said:

Although there was a pool of riders to cover for injuries in 1965 some teams fared better than others with their allocations.  Newcastle, for example, received World Finalist Brian Brett to cover for Ivan Mauger and were allowed to keep him even after Ivan returned (half fit) to the team.  Oxford's replacements did not adequately cover for Ron How.  Newport moved Bob Hughes up from reserve and brought in Ray Harris and then Vic White.  Dick had a league average of just over 8 points, whereas Harris and White achieved around 4.5 and 5.5 respectively.  I do not believe that Wasps would have finished any higher in the league even with a fit Dick Bradley in the team for the rest of the season.  After his injury Newport rode 6 home league matches and won them all.  Away meetings at Long Eaton and Cradley Heath were both won anyway without him.  Away to Swindon they lost 30-48, with Briggs, Broadbank and Ashby all unbeaten by a visiting rider and Dick's presence would probably have not added too many points.  Both Gooch and Pander scored maximums for Oxford as Newport lost there by 13 points and again I don't think Dick would have added enough points to have altered the outcome.  It is possible that Bradley may have scored enough additional points to turn the 8 point defeat at Glasgow into a draw, but Wasps did use a tactical substitute for his replacement in one ride, so it would have been unlikely.  The same applies to the 8 point defeat at Edinburgh.  Even high scores from Bradley would not have reversed the outcome of defeats at Newcastle, Belle Vue and Wolverhampton, by 27-51, 23-55 and 14-64 respectively.

Blimey BL65-you  and your posts - I reluctantly have to agree that though Dick Bradley is one of my heroes if he hadn't been injured it would not have made that much difference to the Wasps final position!! BTW what was the team you followed the most- West Ham maybe?? Thanks for all the info you share with us, I think I speak for all forumlanders when I say how much I enjoy your posts and how much I learn from them. Keep up the good work mate!!

[BOBBATH]

Say there had been no injuries to anybody in 1965- How, Mauger (I guess they wouldn't have got Brett in that case) Sharples etc etc -who do you think would have ended up Champs-still WH or maybe someone else- Halifax would be pretty good as I recall-they lost Brien Elliott. What about Wolves??

[BL65]

10 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

Blimey BL65-you  and your posts - I reluctantly have to agree that though Dick Bradley is one of my heroes if he hadn't been injured it would not have made that much difference to the Wasps final position!! BTW what was the team you followed the most- West Ham maybe?? Thanks for all the info you share with us, I think I speak for all forumlanders when I say how much I enjoy your posts and how much I learn from them. Keep up the good work mate!!

Thank you BOBBATH.  Started out by following Liverpool.  At various times over the years I have 'followed' by attending regularly at (in alphabetical order) Birmingham, Coventry, Cradley Heath, Hull, Leicester, Oxford, Peterborough, Stoke and Wolverhampton.  There are many other tracks I have visited on numerous occasions, with Belle Vue, Bradford, Exeter, King's Lynn, Long Eaton, Reading, Sheffield and Swindon the most frequent among them.

[BL65]

On 7/15/2021 at 2:30 AM, BOBBATH said:

Say there had been no injuries to anybody in 1965- How, Mauger (I guess they wouldn't have got Brett in that case) Sharples etc etc -who do you think would have ended up Champs-still WH or maybe someone else- Halifax would be pretty good as I recall-they lost Brien Elliott. What about Wolves??

Ok BOBBATH,  I have reviewed the league meetings from 1965 and if there had been no injuries to the first choice line-ups then in my view a fair number of matches would have had different outcomes and the final league table would have contained one major surprise.  Revised outcomes due to injury absence only are taken into account.  I saw all of these teams and almost all of the riders during the season.  I have taken into account the form of the missing riders and assessed the impact they may have had at the tracks where the meetings were staged.

The teams are listed in the order they finished in the table, with revised match points and the league position that would have resulted shown in brackets.

1^st West Ham, 47 points (43, 1^st)
No match points were lost due to West Ham injury absences.  Points would have been dropped against Oxford, Wolverhampton, Sheffield and Long Eaton.  (Harrfeldt missed 1 match)

2^nd Wimbledon, 46 points (40, 2^nd)           
No match points were lost due to Wimbledon injury absences. Points would have been dropped against Coventry, Oxford, Newcastle and Long Eaton.  (Hedge missed 3 matches)

3^rd Coventry, 40 points (39, 4^th)                 
With Lightfoot riding at Wimbledon it is likely the match would have been drawn. Points would have been dropped against Long Eaton.  (Mountford and Lightfoot both missed 2 matches)

4^th Oxford, 40 points (40, 3^rd)                      
With How in the team it is possible that Oxford could have won at home to Wimbledon and away to Poole.  An extra point at Newcastle, where the match was drawn, was also a possibility.  Additionally, Oxford might have drawn at West Ham.  How's extra points would have been cancelled out by Jarman's at Wolverhampton.  Points would have been dropped against Sheffield, Cradley Heath and Long Eaton.  (How missed 16 matches, Bishop 7, Reeves 1)

5^th Halifax, 39 points (36, 7^th)      
No match points were lost due to Halifax injury absences. Points would have been dropped to Swindon and Long Eaton.  (Younghusband missed 1 match, Elliott 2)

6^th Newport, 38 points (33, 13^th)
No match points were lost due to Newport injury absences. Points would have been dropped to Swindon, Cradley Heath and Long Eaton. (Biggs missed 1 match, Bradley 14, Erskine 3 and Hughes 2)

7^th Wolverhampton, 37 points (34, 10^th)                   
With Jarman present the home match with West Ham would have been won rather than drawn. Ron How’s presence at Wolverhampton might have been enough to win the match for Oxford, but if Jarman had also been riding  the match would still have gone to the home team. Points would have been dropped to Newcastle and Long Eaton. (Jarman missed 7 matches, Sweetman 3)

8^th Hackney, 37 points (37, 5^th)                  
If Pratt had ridden at Edinburgh a 2 point defeat would have been turned into a victory. Points would have been dropped to Long Eaton.  (Davies missed 2 matches, Pratt and Byford 1)

9^th Exeter, 36 points (35, 9^th)       
No match points were lost due to Exeter injury absences. A point would have been dropped to Long Eaton. (Cowland missed 1 match and Blewett 3)

10^th Poole , 35 points (35, 8^th)                  
If Mudge had ridden at Edinburgh a one point defeat would have turned into a victory. Points would have been dropped to Oxford. (Gilbertson missed 3 matches, Mudge 6, Smith 2)

11^th Sheffield, 34 points (34, 11^th)             
If Kitchen had ridden at Oxford a 5 point defeat would probably have become an away win.  The inclusion of Crane would almost certainly have enabled Sheffield to take a point off West Ham in a home meeting. Points would have been dropped to Cradley Heath and Long Eaton. (Kitchen missed 1 match, Crane 8)

12^th Newcastle, 33 points (32, 14^th)          
With a fit Mauger instead of Brett, Newcastle would have probably gained a point by drawing at Cradley Heath and would also probably have drawn at home to Wimbledon, gaining another point.  A one point defeat at home to Wolverhampton would instead have been another victory. Points would have been dropped to Oxford, Edinburgh and Long Eaton. (Mauger missed 15 matches, Craven 1, Dent 4, Sharples 10)

13^th Glasgow, 33 points (33, 12^th)                              
No match points were lost due to Glasgow injury absences.  (Templeton missed 5 matches, Paulsen 13, Mattingley 6 and Ovenden 5)

14^th Belle Vue, 30 points (30, 16^th)
No match points were lost due to Belle Vue injury absences.  (Fisher missed 4 matches, Levai 6)

15^th Swindon, 28 points (30, 15^th)             
The inclusion of Kilby might have turned defeat into a draw at home to Cradley Heath, as would the presence of Keen at home to Halifax.  With Ashby in the team Swindon would have won at Newport. Points would have been dropped to Long Eaton.  (Briggs and Ashby missed 1 match, Kilby, Keen and Sampson 4 each)

16^th Cradley Heath, 23 points (24, 17^th)  
The draw at home to Sheffield would have been turned into a win with Hockaday in the team. With Brown present, the home meetings with Oxford and Newport would probably have been won. Points would have been dropped to Newcastle, Swindon and Long Eaton. (Brown missed 14 matches, Major 11, Hockaday 3)

17^th Edinburgh, 22 points (20, 18^th)          
The inclusion of Templeton would have turned defeat at home to Newcastle into a victory. Points would have been dropped to Hackney and Poole.  (Templeton missed 6 matches, McKee 3, Harrfeldt 1, with the other 3 team places mainly covered by 5 regular riders)

18^th Long Eaton, 14 points (37, 6^th)           
The home meeting with West Ham would probably have been drawn with Sharp in the team.  With Moore in the team the home match with Halifax would probably have been won. The inclusion of Moore and Sharp would have seen the team win at home to Sheffield, away at Cradley Heath and draw at home to Exeter.  The inclusion of Wilson, Moore and Sharp would have resulted in a home win over Hackney.  The presence of Cresp and Moore should have resulted in home wins over Newcastle, Wolverhampton, Wimbledon and Oxford, a draw with Newport and wins at Swindon and Coventry. (Cresp missed 14 matches, Cole/Bodie 4, Wilson 8, Sharp 23, Moore 32)

The title would still have gone to West Ham.  The biggest upward movement would have been Long Eaton, from 18^th to 6^th.  Long Eaton had won their first two away meetings of the season, at Edinburgh and Halifax, before being decimated by injuries.  

[norbold]

Great work BL. The best news is that West Ham would have won anyway. Hooray!

Edited July 19, 2021 by norbold

[BOBBATH]

BL65 you have excelled yourself!!! thanx for all the work you have put in. Not surprised that Long Eaton would have climbed up the table-as you say they had won some away fixtures but were sadly decimated by injuries. Sad to see Newport drop from 6th to 13th-should have kept my big trap shut!!. Seriously thank you for all the effort this must have taken-it is always a pleasure to read your posts- if I ever get back to the UK will buy you and compost a beer(Plus for you Norbold  an orange juice-since you have foresworn the evil grape). Cheers to all..

[BL65]

8 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

BL65 you have excelled yourself!!! thanx for all the work you have put in. Not surprised that Long Eaton would have climbed up the table-as you say they had won some away fixtures but were sadly decimated by injuries. Sad to see Newport drop from 6th to 13th-should have kept my big trap shut!!. Seriously thank you for all the effort this must have taken-it is always a pleasure to read your posts- if I ever get back to the UK will buy you and compost a beer(Plus for you Norbold  an orange juice-since you have foresworn the evil grape). Cheers to all..

Thank you.  Four of the ex-Nationals were in a group at the top of the table either way.  Two teams were in the bottom three whether injury-hit or injury-free.  The rest of the league would have been fairly even in the revised table, with only 7 match points between 5th and 16th.  Two extra wins could have seen Wasps at 5th instead of 13th.  The rider allocations at the beginning of the season were reasonably successful, but inevitably injuries played a big part in the fortunes of some teams.

[Sidney the robin]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:01 AM, BL65 said:

Thank you.  Four of the ex-Nationals were in a group at the top of the table either way.  Two teams were in the bottom three whether injury-hit or injury-free.  The rest of the league would have been fairly even in the revised table, with only 7 match points between 5th and 16th.  Two extra wins could have seen Wasps at 5th instead of 13th.  The rider allocations at the beginning of the season were reasonably successful, but inevitably injuries played a big part in the fortunes of some teams.

Great posts BL great stuff enjoy all of your yesteryear stuff very much keep them coming.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sidney the robin

[BL65]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Great posts BL great stuff enjoy all of your yesteryear stuff very much keep,them coming.

Thank you Sidney.

[BOBBATH]

BL65, agree with Sidney- I learn so much from your posts ,many thanks and keep 'em coming!!

[Sidney the robin]

15 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

BL65, agree with Sidney- I learn so much from your posts ,many thanks and keep 'em coming!!

Learned alot from you BOBBATH , BL , Steve, Norbold ( ect) yesteryear is a passion of mine.My memorabilia collecting scrapbooks pictures autographs keep me occupied and it is very enjoyable.The last few months i have bought alot of DVDS from the Jan Staechmann collection terrific value great to look back at the old footage.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Sidney the robin

[BOBBATH]

Yup, this a great forum-particularly glad for stuff on sixties (my era)- I still have the programmes of every meeting I ever attended.!! I must be what you Brits used to call an "anorak"!!!!

[norbold]

3 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

I still have the programmes of every meeting I ever attended.!! I must be what you Brits used to call an "anorak"!!!!

So do I, BOBBATH, and I used to attend a lot of meetings actually wearing an anorak back in the day!