GP rounds 3 and 4 Wroclaw Fri/Sat 30th/31st July live on BT Sport

[IainB]

3 minutes ago, nw42 said:

Well he is between courses.

Sneaked off to the gents with his laptop 

[Rob B]

Referee had 3 decisions to make and got all 3 wrong.

Woffinden one was ridiculous, dropped it miles after any contact, so much room to stay on.

Madsen, there was contact but it was minimal and there was a delay till Emil realised he should drop it.  

The final, look at the line Janowski took, he was so tight going down the straight he was riding over gate 2! He was never going to have the correct angle to turn it in time with another rider alongside him and ploughed into Emil. Crazy decision to exclude Emil.

[IainB]

6 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

There certainly is:

The 2 Riders who finish 3rd in each of the Semi Finals will be 5th and 6th in the Final Meeting Classification, with the higher ranked rider from Intermediate Classification 5th and the lower ranked rider 6th. This rule will apply if both riders complete, or fail to complete the Semi Final. If only one of these riders fail to complete the Semi Final for any reason, he will be placed 6th in the final meeting classification.
The 2 Riders who finish 4th in each of the Semi Finals will be 7th and 8th in the Final Meeting Classification, with the higher ranked rider from Intermediate Classification 7th and the lower ranked rider 8th. This rule will apply if both riders complete, or fail to complete the Semi Final. If only one of these riders fail to complete the Semi Final for any reason, he will be placed 8th in the final meeting classification.

As Lambert was excluded first he is deemed to finish 4th, Madsen 3rd in the first semi-final.

But what about the remaining 2 that didn't complete the 4 laps?

[NeilWatson]

5 minutes ago, iainb said:

But what about the remaining 2 that didn't complete the 4 laps?

Awarding a race comes under FIM rules rather than GP rules.

70.10.17 Finish of a heat
The finish of a heat shall occur in the case of any of the following circumstances.
a) when the front part of the front wheel of the motorcycle (whilst attached to the machine) passes over the finishing line after completing the appropriate number of laps provided the Competitor is in contact with his motorcycle.
b) when the Referee has awarded the heat as provided for in these regulations.
c) If the Referee has cause to stop a heat after the leading Rider has passed the start/finish line to commence the last lap, the Referee has the sole discretion to award the heat based upon the positions of the competitors at the time the heat was caused to be stopped.
The disqualified Rider will be awarded no points and any competitors behind the disqualified Riders being advanced one place.
d) Where racing incidents etc. have reduced the riders available to take part in the re run of any heat to a single competitor, the Referee may award the appropriate number of points to the remaining competitor without the need for a further rerun.

[IainB]

Is that new for this season?

[Col]

Madsen exclusion was wrong, Sayfutdinov could have stayed on as he could when he hit Janowski who I don't think did much wrong.

Nerves got better of Lambert, Woffinden has lost his edge.

[RebelDan]

Great final but a  poor GP let’s hope tomorrow is better. 

[marko]

Tia might be suffering from what I have long called the Brent Werner effect.

For those that do not recall or were not supporters back in the day, Brent was an American rider, not a world beater but very good at second division level, would never settle for a safe second but once he had a kid, that all changed and he was never the same again.

Not all riders suffer from this but many do, as I do not have children myself I am unable to grasp this,  but I imagine it can alter ones perception of life.

[HenryW]

3 hours ago, Rob B said:

Referee had 3 decisions to make and got all 3 wrong.

Woffinden one was ridiculous, dropped it miles after any contact, so much room to stay on.

Madsen, there was contact but it was minimal and there was a delay till Emil realised he should drop it.  

The final, look at the line Janowski took, he was so tight going down the straight he was riding over gate 2! He was never going to have the correct angle to turn it in time with another rider alongside him and ploughed into Emil. Crazy decision to exclude Emil.

Yep...An awful night of work from the ref.
I thought the Woffinden and Sayfutdinov (semi final) incidents were pretty similar....There was contact, but the rider contacted took the slight hit and had plenty of time to gather it up and race on, but they chose to just bail out well after the contact. It's hard to argue with their choice when refs side with them, but it encourages riders to do just that, and that is NOT the sport that I know and love. A bit of barging and banging side by side is what makes the sport great. If it turns into a sport of "I got touched, so I am slowly falling off long after the contact to get someone else excluded or get back into the restart" then the sport is done for.

The final was a different situation, but I find it hard to see how Emil was to blame. He races a "normal" line but gets wiped out by someone using a really weird line...As a home track rider, maybe Maciej had some special knowledge of what would work and so maybe I am doing him a disservice, but as an outsider, it just seemed like he steamed into an impossible line and collected an innocent who was using a normal line.
As I have said, I don't think Emil deserved the place in the final based on his semi final bail out, but I am very glad that he walked away from the crash in the final...I was worried for a while after that.

[Pinny]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but is there anyway I can watch this online anywhere? Thanks!

[mikebv]

I think Tai is probably at that 'tipping point' of his career..

Reminds me a bit of how Bomber went in that team racing now seems to be his main priority, and pushing himself to that "next level" is no longer the be all and end all for him, especially as league racing is where the vast majority of his money is made..

Being third heat leader at Wroclaw too probably doesnt help his mindset as he clearly isnt consistently now week in week out at the same level of Majic and Laguta. And then you have Zmarzlik, Madsen, and Emil to add to the mix..

He will, given his natural talent, still now and again hit the heights that many others can't and maybe still win the odd GP, but as for where he now is in the grand scheme of things, he is nearer being "top eight' rather than 'top one'...

Be interesting to see if he accepts being an 'also ran' for any length if time as he comes across as someone with a clear view of his future. Personally not sure he would accept being "just top eight" as his level...

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by mikebv

[racers and royals]

Official result GP Friday

1st Zmarzlik.  20

2nd Janowski 18

3rd Laguta 16

4th Sayfutdinov 14

5th Lindgren 12

6th Madsen 11

7th Vaculik 10

8th Lambert 9

9th Thomsen 8

10th Fricke 7

11th Woffinden 6

12th Doyle 5

13th Zagar 4

14th Chugunov 3

15 Berntzon 2

16 Kasprzak 1

 

[Pinny]

6 hours ago, marko said:

Tia might be suffering from what I have long called the Brent Werner effect.

For those that do not recall or were not supporters back in the day, Brent was an American rider, not a world beater but very good at second division level, would never settle for a safe second but once he had a kid, that all changed and he was never the same again.

Not all riders suffer from this but many do, as I do not have children myself I am unable to grasp this,  but I imagine it can alter ones perception of life. 

I pretty much remember Werner, admittedly only from 1998 until he retired, as being a right gating tart. Superb style and like lightening whilst out in front but if he missed the gate, forget it. I never realized he was classed as a racer.

[Gaz]

How did Vaculik finish above Lambert in points scoring? 
is it because Lambert touched the tapes.

I was just wondering as both finished last in semi and rules state;

Likewise, the fourth-placed semi-final rider who scores highest in the heats will be ranked seventh, receiving 10 championship points, and the other fourth finisher will finish eighth and earn nine.

[screm]

7 hours ago, marko said:

Tia might be suffering from what I have long called the Brent Werner effect.

For those that do not recall or were not supporters back in the day, Brent was an American rider, not a world beater but very good at second division level, would never settle for a safe second but once he had a kid, that all changed and he was never the same again.

Not all riders suffer from this but many do, as I do not have children myself I am unable to grasp this,  but I imagine it can alter ones perception of life.

Tai just isn't Tai anymore, reached the top, financially secure, young family. 

[OveFundinFan]

18 minutes ago, screm said:

Tai just isn't Tai anymore, reached the top, financially secure, young family. 

 Add……. Nice house, still earning good money to add to pension pot.

interesting to watch last night when Robert Lambert was winning and Tai was at the back. I wonder what each was thinking?
I didn’t agree with Madson being excluded, and didn’t agree that Janowski wasn’t excluded - both situations with Emil. And Tai could have stayed upright in the earlier race (IMO).

Apart from some very good races, including Madson going from last to first, overall the racing was below par. I reckon the track tonight will be completely different……. For the better I hope.

Edited July 31, 2021 by OveFundinFan

[Triple.H.]

5 hours ago, Pinny said:

Sorry if this has been asked already, but is there anyway I can watch this online anywhere? Thanks!

try rhis

 

[IainB]

How has Chuganob got wild card's for these 2 GP's (assuming he's riding tonight) is it the PZM that has selected him? Is it because he's the best up and coming "Pole"? Surely when he hits 24 he'll turn into a Russian again. Why aren't they backing their own talent?

[bigcatdiary]

11 hours ago, Col said:

Madsen exclusion was wrong, Sayfutdinov could have stayed on as he could when he hit Janowski who I don't think did much wrong.

Nerves got better of Lambert, Woffinden has lost his edge.

Most riders could stay on but in the GP,s it pays you to go down because it invariably gets you a second bite of the cherry

Lambert was in a great position but blew it, how hard is it to watch the tapes go up before you let the clutch go.

Riders need to understand if you move before the tapes go up your excluded, none of this warning crap, they are all experienced riders and are just trying to gain an advantage.

Woffinden actually made some starts last night but looked like he was on a lawnmower the way everyone went past him. If I was his in his team I would be very concerned he just isn’t riding well at all.

The racing was good towards the end but the first half was very processional, the tracks all look to slick with very little passing early on.

[Bavarian]

Due to the new (confusing) GP point system introduced by the FIM , it seems that the heat races are not contested with the same intensity by the riders anymore, knowing that the points they score in the heats do not count for real in the world championship. A rider can affort to drop five or six points in the heat races, which will still be enough to make the top eight. Poinst scored to not count in teh end, so why shoud a riders take any risks in a heat race. That lack of desperation to go for every single point was quite obvious last night. The important races are only the two semis and the final. The heats have become rather dull now.

Also, the gap in points with the new scorign system has become huge already. And with only the top six (instead of eight) qualifying for next year, there will soon be a lot of riders below the top ten riding the SGPs without much motivation.   

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Bavarian