Grachan Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 5 hours ago, NeilWatson said: Rowe’s average is immaterial. Bates is an absent 4* RS, the facility (Reg 12.4.D.1) is a ‘same star rider of lower’. Rowe has a 4* RS grading. It’s unusual circumstances, which may well not have been considered when the rule was written. So why have a rule that says that they are determined by average once they achieve one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Grachan said: People thinking it's no more than just 4 blokes going round a track one after the other and no more is why it won"t appeal to the masses. The masses will have no knowledge of me making a post on a forum and will have no knowledge of the rule book. Also, riders' families being condescending towards anyone who feels inclined to look at the rules on the bspa website and commenting on them by refering to them as an "anorak" won't help either. I've been a fan of speedway since 1974, and the intricacies of the rules and the averages were always a big part of its appeal to me. Sorry if you don't like them. They'll never learn. They might work out one day (although somehow I doubt it) that the £20 (and more) that a paying customer shells out every week pays their wages and therefore to keep their stupid comments to themselves. The rules of speedway - and in particular averages - are important to every single person who supports a team and, in the case of Rowe's guest appearance, something that has been mentioned several times here and on social media. After all, we are well aware just how crooked speedway can be. Thanks to Neil Watson for his clarification, and whether the rule is contradictory or not it exists. Edited July 2, 2021 by Halifaxtiger 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Grachan said: So why have a rule that says that they are determined by average once they achieve one? SR 12.3.1 governs a rider’s position in a declared 1-7. Reg 12.4.D.1 dictates their eligibility to guest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Can see why Sheffield have not been complaining about the restrictions now, while other clubs have been limited to 25-33% of capacity, Sheffield must have been at around 75% last night, locals were saying it was bigger crowd then they were getting pre-covid. Great atmosphere with a large amount of Aces fans and a nip and tuck meeting. First half of the meeting was poor but second half made up for it. Rowe although his points on board don’t look much he was the match winner with some of his last gasp passes, don’t know where he got the grip from on the inside of last bend. Disappointing to lose by 2, but there was couple of mistakes like Richie fall and Etheridge tapes touch in easiest ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 hours ago, NeilWatson said: SR 12.3.1 governs a rider’s position in a declared 1-7. Reg 12.4.D.1 dictates their eligibility to guest. Thanks for the clarification, although it does seem a little odd that a rider not riding as a rising star and averaging over 5 points per match can be used in such a way. Be careful with the rule quoting. You'll get accused of being an anorak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Difficult to tell of crowds are bigger than pre-covid or not as we’ve lost viewing on the first bend and the bar is closed, so all those people have had to go somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 That was my first meeting for about 4 seasons and I went with my brother and he hasn't been for about 34 years. We both thoroughly enjoyed our evening. Even the early races were quite closely fought and racing really stepped up after about heat 8. There seemed to me to be a good crowd and, with a lot of Aces fans present, a good atmosphere. I'm glad they don't segregate the fans, would make it too much like football if they did and it's good to chat to fans of both teams and get their perspectives. The lack of segregation is one of the strengths of the sport, in my view. I was really impressed with the two rising stars on view, both well on the pace and involved in some of the best racing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Grachan said: Thanks for the clarification, although it does seem a little odd that a rider not riding as a rising star and averaging over 5 points per match can be used in such a way. Be careful with the rule quoting. You'll get accused of being an anorak! A little odd, it’s bloody ridiculous. Yet another example of what was basically a good idea (Rising Star) being ruined by rules which yet again work against each other and offer an advantage to one team and disadvantage others. It could all have been avoided by proper assessed averages for Rising Stars (for those without the appropriate MA) instead of grades and team building built accordingly which most people understand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Had a great night in sheffield despite the defeat, thats what speedway was all about, 2 good teams going at it right to the end, maybe it wasnt a polish type atmosphere but we will never have that, but that was the best atmosphere ive been in since the 2016 play off final with wolves, plenty of aces fans in attendance. the crowd was a good one, deffo no limit on there crowd as we were all packed in, good to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 14 hours ago, Col said: A bit of a slow burner, but definitely improved, the middle few heats especially. Rowe wins it for Sheffield with two 1 points towards the end when re-passing Brennan and one of the Worrall's. I'd be interested to hear who the hefty contingent of Ace's fans point the finger as for the loss. Kurtz was awful first few rides, I've seen him ride Owlerton much better, also allowed Holder to bully him to the first turn in heat 15 and both Worrall's were passed when in points scoring positions. C Wright wasn't gating, Etheridge touching tapes in heat 2 and Bewley started slowly. For Sheffield, Batchelor isn't right, totally not interested if he doesn't gate, Howarth was entertainingly up & down. After his first ride when he went too wide trying to pass S Worrall when it was never on and it allowed C Wright to pass Ellis did as much as could be expected. Holder was untouchable except for heat 13, when he retired after a lap - did Batchelor get in his way? Difficult to tell from bends 3&4. Barely noticed Sedgmen! J Wright was on the pace but never looked like scoring. Having now done all 3 this year, Owlerton is a better drive from North Wolverhampton than NSS & EoESg even when the closest M1 junction to Owlerton is shut south bound on the way home! With no diversions in place. So glad I know Worksop has an M1 junction and was sign-posted. You only had to follow the "diversion signs" & travel north to the Meadowhall junction then come back down the M1 South (approximate 3 miles out of your way!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieboy Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Can’t believe all the sniping from the bed wetters on here about guests. It’s an evil necessity for the sport as every true speedway fan knows. Every club has benefited with a horses for corses policy from it in the past. James Greaves always threw a sicky when he was supposed to be riding at sheffield and his team always scored double figures from the guests. We can’t afford to have squads so what other way is there ? At the beginning of the season the rising star list came out. I don’t think Bates should be on it and didn’t want him but he was and we selected him. In the 4 star group were Bacon Bickley Brennan Greaves Mountain Rowe Shanes Ipswich decided to go with Kemp as the rising star and Rowe at reserve. Last night we selected a 4 star rider from the list. Personally I think each team should pick 2 rising stars at 6and 7. Peterborough have a massive advantage at reserve and look well set up. As for Rowe costing Ipswich a place in the top 4 while riding for us when there’s half the season to go ???? So Ipswich have lost 3 at home so that’s 9 points dropped but it’s Rowes fault for guesting for us and earning himself a few quid. Hope you enjoy booing the lad next home game. Good young British prospect who I wouldn’t mind riding for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 On 7/1/2021 at 1:33 PM, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Can't argue with that but at least the replacement has similar or lower average In this case its 3 points higher on true form but masked by the RS grading system I'm thinking that perhaps Ioswich should replace Anders with a new signing up to his 5.49 average and then replace Drew with Anders as the RS Can't see anything in the rules to prevent that.... Plymouth have done exactly that with Ruddick and Bowtell in their new declaration today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 But that would mean that Anders has to rider for Rising Star money and he chose to be included in the 1-6 and negotiate his own deal (which he is fully entitled to do). Personally i think for the PL RS guests should only come from those not attached to other PL (be that RS position or otherwise) and CL RS guests should come from those on the list but not currently attached to a CL or PL team. The system was "intended" cough cough to offer opportunities for those making their way in the sport to show what they could do at a higher level not just to create a closed shop at different tiers. To clarify this is nothing against Anders he took the booking because he could, the issue lies with the rules that allows him to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neb Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 19 hours ago, Charlieboy said: Good close meeting. Some good racing 2 nd half of meeting especially Kyle howarth and Anders Rowe twice. Great to see Rowe and Brennan having a great tussle. We need to replace Sedgeman and Wright sooner rather than later. Bachelor 2 good rides 2 poor efforts Holder top class Ellis good meeting Belle vue deserved their point for their efforts. Thank you to Anders Rowe excellent effort from a guest. Your welcome anytime josh pickering is there for the taking he would be a good swop for sedgeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Charlieboy said: Can’t believe all the sniping from the bed wetters on here about guests. It’s an evil necessity for the sport as every true speedway fan knows. Every club has benefited with a horses for corses policy from it in the past. James Greaves always threw a sicky when he was supposed to be riding at sheffield and his team always scored double figures from the guests. We can’t afford to have squads so what other way is there ? At the beginning of the season the rising star list came out. I don’t think Bates should be on it and didn’t want him but he was and we selected him. In the 4 star group were Bacon Bickley Brennan Greaves Mountain Rowe Shanes Ipswich decided to go with Kemp as the rising star and Rowe at reserve. Last night we selected a 4 star rider from the list. Personally I think each team should pick 2 rising stars at 6and 7. Peterborough have a massive advantage at reserve and look well set up. As for Rowe costing Ipswich a place in the top 4 while riding for us when there’s half the season to go ???? So Ipswich have lost 3 at home so that’s 9 points dropped but it’s Rowes fault for guesting for us and earning himself a few quid. Hope you enjoy booing the lad next home game. Good young British prospect who I wouldn’t mind riding for us. Last night with Anders Rowe being there to represent Sheffield it left the meeting devoid of credibility when aligned with the sport being a supposed professional team sport.. However, on the other hand.... Last night with Anders Rowe being there to represent Sheffield it certainly added much to the overall entertainment value on offer... Personally I will always believe that a truly fit for purpose RR facility would do away with guests completely, (never more so than now given the closeness in rider capability from 1 to 5 in particular), however as that is seemingly beyond the wit of man to deliver then they will be forever here to stay... Which obviously means the leagues will never have any value in winning them, but at least each meeting should stay at least competitive and watchable.... Unfortunately though the sport can't have it both ways... No one can ever complain about a lack of major sponsorship when that company/those companies will be associated with something 'pretty much contrived'.... And I can't think of one major company that would choose to back something ran that way.... 14 riders of a decent level can still deliver a good nights entertainment regardless of who 'wins'.... Which is ultimately what each track should be trying to achieve.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieboy Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 RR is ok unless you get another injury on the night then uour down to 5. We had it at Glasgow a few years back and won surprisingly but it’s far from ideal. No body runs a number 8 now so it puts more pressure on the other riders and machines. We’re stuck with guests I think for the foreseeable. Last night was a very good meeting and people who didn’t go are commenting on it just to have a snipe. Speedway is speedway and if you don’t agree with the rules and it upsets you that much people don’t have to go. I am just glad to be watching speedway this year after the 18 months we’ve just had but some people just like to bitch for the sake of it. The Bates and Peter Mole have done a cracking job since taking over and if it wasn’t for them I think we would be another track short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Charlieboy said: Speedway is speedway and if you don’t agree with the rules and it upsets you that much people don’t have to go. Which is exactly why it's dying on its ar$e.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieboy Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Definitely but its been happening for years not just recently that’s why it’s in a state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Charlieboy said: Definitely but its been happening for years not just recently that’s why it’s in a state In the 'days of yore'.. Number one riders in a 13 heat match would run a minimum 9 point average with the top ten running 10 and 11 plus... Often meaning (particularly away from home) the likes of Mauger, Olsen Collins, et al would score 13 to 15 a night (with a TAC sub 'gimme' against a second string and reserve included).. And every team had a 'proper No1... As you only needed to score 39 to get s draw it meant that the "Number Ones" were vital and 100% integral to the teams success, with, even on a bad night, a double figure score of just 10 was often more than 25% of a teams' total... Meaning that if they were missing then, so fundamental were they, that a replacement of a similar standard was needed.. Now teams have seven point men at No1, with five point men as second strings... If ever Speedway (in the UK) was going to dispense with the guest system (and with it remember, it can never hope to succeed), it should have been now, given the closeness in standard of the riders in each team.. Last week for example, Ipswich at Sheffield should have been allowed to have Cook and King take all Crumps rides up to a max seven each (if that was what the manager wanted).. Meaning the meeting (and competition) kept its credibility, the Ipswich riders (not non Ipswich riders), got to earn more money, and the team ethos and spirit was protected.. Not to mention the guest themselves don't get accused of trying too hard which penalises his own team or throwing the meeting to protect his own team... Imagine if the sport did get major coverage explaining either of those scenarios post meeting to a watching audience...? Edited July 2, 2021 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Personally I will always believe that a truly fit for purpose RR facility would do away with guests completely, (never more so than now given the closeness in rider capability from 1 to 5 in particular), however as that is seemingly beyond the wit of man to deliver then they will be forever here to stay... How do run RR for a reserve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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